Weed VS Alcohol

[Teigen 0]

I've been thinking alot about this lately. Because im seeing how a family member is deteriorating day by day from drinking alcohol.

It continues to confuse me how people keep trying to convince me alcohol is so much better than marijuana. I live in a small country, Norway has about 4,5 million people. And an estimated 500 people die here every year as a direct cause of alcohol. Murder, drunk driving, fights, alcohol poisoning, drowning etc. And its the number one cause of crime here. Rape, robbery, spousal abuse, child abuse, molestation and so on and so forth.

There is not a single reported fatality or serious crime directly related to the use of marijuana, EVER. Yet you risk ending up behind bars for posession of a small amount of it. A substance you can smoke in public in Amsterdam (at least i think you still can, even after they closed the pot cafes)

My step father has worked in the police for 15 years now and i've had this discussion with him. He's seen first hand what alcohol can do to a family that happened to get struck by a drunk driver. Im sure many people on this forum has bad experiences with alcohol either themselves or relatives/friends.

My granny is an alcoholic. And i would MUCH rather see her smoke weed than drink booze. heck, weed would help her through the day! she's being popped full of drugs to get through the day because of her pains. Its absurd, drugs that she's told will help her is also causing tons of side effects. While marijuana wouldn't cause any bad side effects what so ever!!

What is your opinion on the subject?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Because it's legal and "accepted", the use of it is far more common. So the abuse is more common.

But pot isn't any less "abusable". Since it isn't legal, the use (and abuse) is a lot more hidden.

Both can be used responsibly, both can be abused.

And (for the most part anyway) someone who is going to abuse one will abuse the other (or anything else available for that matter)

There's crime and death from pot as well as alcohol.
Just not as much. Mainly (IMO) because the use isn't a much, and kept hidden.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Teigen 0]

I see where you're coming from. But i cant find any reported deaths
caused directly by the use of pot. They say that in order for someone to risk death by inhaling potsmoke, they would have to inhale 20.000 average sized joints in less than one our!!!

But of course, there will always be people willing to kill eachother over pot, as well as any other drug.


FYI almost 500.000 americans die every year from tobacco! Here in Norway the number is about 8000!

[quade 4]

I suspect your stats are incorrect.

I'm fairly certain the CO from far fewer joints in that time period would be enough to kill you.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Not direct deaths from overdose. I really don't think that's possible. But I find it difficult to believe the claims that potsmoke is not as bad for you as tobacco smoke (although it's possible, I'm not an expert on it).

And how about stoned stupidity?

Traffic accidents, falls, drownings, that sort of thing.

It isn't easy to detect so it may not show up in the reports (the dead guy's friends aren't going to tell the cops "He fell out of the tree becuase he was high").

I personally don't see a lot of difference between the two. Just one is legal and one isn't.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Teigen 0]

Maybe, but then again its not the marijuana itself that will kill you. its the heated plant matter that you draw into your loungs. Like with normal cigarettes. Only normal cigarettes also contains a ton of other shit that is far more likely to kill you.

EDIT: THC is one of the easiest substances to trace. As opposed to herion, cocain, crack etc.. THC will be traceable in your blood for almost a month after you use it. The others will be untraceable after a day or two at most!!

Also. In cases where people have tested positive for cannabis after committing a crime, they have also been under the influence of alcohol!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Prolonged abusive use of marijuana will hurt you. But it will not hurt you as much as prolonged abusive use of harder drugs or alcohol. Marijuana is addictive, but it is a mental addiction not a physical one and people can control or eliminate their marijuana consumption if they are motivated. Finally I would not be against legalizing marijuana to be regulated in a similar manner to how tobacco and alcohol are regulated. But I definitely would not favor legalizing the harder drugs.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[pirana 0]

Quote

While marijuana wouldn't cause any bad side effects what so ever!!

What is your opinion on the subject?

Well, there are some impacts; might have to allocate more funds to the snack budget.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

What is your opinion on the subject?

Some points that come to mind as follows, no particular order:

1. It is difficult to learn to deal with life on life's terms. Therefore, people seek mood altering chemicals.
2. Alcohol is addictive as a central nervous system depressant same as heroin and other opioids.
3. Marijuana does not mask negative emotions in the same manner as alcohol. Frequently, marijuana can enhance a negative emotion and make it worse.
4. People who seek mood altering chemicals over personal growth and education will develop a drug of choice.
5. Alcohol is readily available and tends to be the primary drug of choice.
6. It is very difficult to conquer the addiction of alcohol.
7. No one changes until the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

If somebody wants to smoke weed or drink alcohol, fine. Just as long as they do it in a manner that doesn't affect other peoples' well being.
Both can cause health problems, both can cause social problems, both can be abused for decades in some individuals with no adverse effects.

How can you say there has never been a serious crime directly related to the use of weed? Are you saying that any and all murders committed by somebody while stoned would have been committed sober? That nobody has ever been robbed by somebody who is broke and wants to buy a bag? That entire assertion is so far fetched I cannot figure how anybody would subscribe to it.
I have no problem with people getting high. I do have issues with people trying to sugar coat the truth by saying it is harmless.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Teigen 0]

What i was trying to say was that i haven't come across any crimes being committed as a direct cause of being high.. Like i said, there will always be people committing acts of crime in order TO GET drugs and alcohol. But robbing or stabbing someone because you're baked? Marijuana doesn't make people violent, it turns them into passifists. Alcohol does make you violent.

And im not trying to sugarcoat it, but there are no scientific facts that claim marijuana is harmful, unless you smoke a totally silly amount of it. You can abuse it YES, but you can abuse coca cola too... or potato chips for that matter! which is alot more likely to kill you!

[MrDree 0]

When someone who drinks alcohol tells me that weed is bad, this is what I tell them:
Imagine what would happen if everybody in the world got drunk for a day... People would probably beat each other with no apparent reason, puke all over the place and do all kind of very stupid and dangerous things.
Now imagine what would happen if everybody in the world got high for a day... People would probably laugh their ass off with no apparent reason, laying on a couch listening to some music while eating chips.

If you ask me, the law has it all wrong! Weed should be legal and alcohol illegal, not the other way around.


Do you know the song "Irony Of It All" by The Streets? The lyrics are hilarious, but so true! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCbDF-OPDX4



Edit to add the lyrics:

[Drinker]

Hello, Hello

My name's Terry and I'm a law-abider

There's nothing I like more than getting fired up on beer

And when the weekend's here

I exercise my right to get paralytic and fight

Good bloke fairly

But I get well leery when geezers look at me funny

Bounce 'em round like bunnies

I'm likely to cause mischief

Good clean grief you must believe

And I ain't no thief, law-abiding and all, all legal

And who cares about my liver when it feels good?

What you need is some real manhood

Rasher, Rasher, burning cash up

Putting people's backs up

Public disorder, I'll give you public disorder

I down eight pints and run all over the place

Spit in the face of an officer

See if that bothers ya

'Cause I never broke a law in my life

Some day I'm gonna settle down with a wife

Come on lads let's have another fight


[Marijuana Smoker]

Um, Hello

My name's Tim and I'm a criminal

In the eyes of society I need to be in jail

For the choice of herbs I inhale

This ain't no wholesale operation

Just a few eighths and some Playstation's my vocation

I pose a threat to the nation

And down at the station the police hold no patience

Let's talk space and time

I like to get deep sometimes

And think about Einstein and Carl Jung

And old Kung Fu movies I like to see

Pass the hydrator please

Yeah, I'm floating on thin air

Going to Amsterdam in the New Year - top gear there

'Cause I take pride in my hobby

Home-made bongs using my engineering degree

"Dear leaders, please legalize weed for these reasons."


[Drinker]

Like I was saying to him

I told him, "F**k with me and you won't live."

So I smacked him in the head and downed another Carling

Bada Bada Bing

For the lad's like, mad fight

His face a sad sight, Vodka and Snake Bite

Going on like a right geez

He's a twat!

Shouldn't have looked at me like that

Anyway, I'm an upstanding citizen

If a war came along I'd be on the front line with 'em

Can't stand crime either, them hooligans on heroin

Drugs and criminals

Those thugs are the pinnacle of the downfall of society

I've got all the anger pent up inside of me


[Marijuana Smoker]

You know, I don't see why I should be the criminal

How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal?

And how many deaths are there per year from alcohol?

I just completed Gran Turismo on the hardest setting

We pose no threat on my setee

Ooh the pizza's here, will someone let him in please?

We didn't order chicken

Not a problem, we'll pick it out

I doubt they meant to mess us about

After all we're all adults, not louts

As I was saying, we're friendly peaceful people

We're not the ones out there causing trouble

We just sit in this hazy bubble with our quarters

Discussing how beautiful Gail Porter is

MTV, BBC 2, Channel 4 is on until six in the morning

Then at six in the morning the sun dawns and it's my bedtime


[Drinker]

Causing trouble?!

Your stinking rabble boys

Saying I'm the lad who's spoiling it

You're on drugs

It really bugs me when people try and tell me I'm a thug

Just for getting drunk

I like getting drunk

'Cause I'm an upstanding citizen

If a war came along I'd be on the front line with 'em


[Marijuana Smoker]

Now Terry, you're repeating yourself

But that's okay, drunk people can't help that

A chemical reaction happening inside your brain causes you to forget what you're saying


[Drinker]

What?

I know exactly what I'm saying

I'm perfectly sane

You stinking student lame-o

Go get a job and stop robbing us of our taxes


[Marijuana Smoker]

Um, well actually according to research

Government funding for further education pales in insignificance

When compared to how much they spend on repairing leery drunk people at the weekend

In casualty wards all over the land


[Drinker]

Why you cheeky little swine, come here!

I'm gonna batter ya!

Come here! 

"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching."

Dudeist Skydiver #101

[pirana 0]

Quote

What i was trying to say was that i haven't come across any crimes being committed as a direct cause of being high.. Like i said, there will always be people committing acts of crime in order TO GET drugs and alcohol. But robbing or stabbing someone because you're baked? Marijuana doesn't make people violent, it turns them into passifists. Alcohol does make you violent.

And im not trying to sugarcoat it, but there are no scientific facts that claim marijuana is harmful, unless you smoke a totally silly amount of it. You can abuse it YES, but you can abuse coca cola too... or potato chips for that matter! which is alot more likely to kill you!

Exactly, darn near anything can be abused. People abuse fast food, but I do not think it should be illegal. Given the rise in obesity and it's impacts, quarter-pounders ought to be higher on the list of things to ban than pot.

Cigarettes, quarter-pounders, guns, automobiles, etc all appear to be more dangerous than pot when abused.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[ibx 2]

This is interesting
http://www.moleculewear.com/420-10-studies.php

Now lets get high !

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Exactly, darn near anything can be abused. People abuse fast food, but I do not think it should be illegal. Given the rise in obesity and it's impacts, quarter-pounders ought to be higher on the list of things to ban than pot.

But wouldn't making pot legal result in a lot more quarter pounders being consumed?

Back to seriousness - when you remove the crime associated with the illegal trade in pot, there's not a lot left. And the number of people smoking weed in CA, esp in SF, is not low. It's of course less than the number of drinkers, but if stoners will shooting people and crashing cars left and right, we'd know about it.

The medical program in CA is pretty much a farce - a couple hundred bucks gets you a prescription due to "stress." We are basically testing what it's like to legalize pot. And while early on, it seemed like the dispensaries were little crime zones, the ones now are turning into legitimate, and in some cases very well run, businesses.

Depending on how long it is before the hands off Obama Administration is replaced by a law and morals
(and gay night clubs) GOP administration, I expect our state to go the last step in short order. If he's reelected, it seems probably before the end of his second term.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

What i was trying to say was that i haven't come across any crimes being committed as a direct cause of being high.. Like i said, there will always be people committing acts of crime in order TO GET drugs and alcohol. But robbing or stabbing someone because you're baked? Marijuana doesn't make people violent, it turns them into passifists. Alcohol does make you violent.

And im not trying to sugarcoat it, but there are no scientific facts that claim marijuana is harmful, unless you smoke a totally silly amount of it. You can abuse it YES, but you can abuse coca cola too... or potato chips for that matter! which is alot more likely to kill you!

Yeah, you're sugar coating it.
Do you seriously believe that no crime has ever been commited because of pot? Shit, dude, open your eyes. People rob and steal all the time to get money to get high. Same as with booze, cigs, candy, and food.
Do you seriously believe no harm as ever come as a direct result of smoking pot? Tell that to the families of car crashes caused by people driving while high.
Yeah, you're sugar coating by implying it is completely harmless.
Like I said, I have nothing against people smoking it if they want. Their choice. But for fucks sake at least have the balls to acknowledge that it isn't exactly like chewing a stick of sugarless gum. There are risks involved with it's use and people who choose to smoke should be aware of those risks, whatever they may be.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Hjeada 0]

Let me put it this way, I would much rather drive the roads if everyone was high than if everyone was drunk...

Dudeist Skydiver #0511

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

Let me put it this way, I would much rather drive the roads if everyone was high than if everyone was drunk...

Yep, for sure. It's much nicer to see a bright smiling face behind a car wheel speeding towards you in your last seconds of life - I fully understand that. Peace, bro ....

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[hwt 0]

http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/
here is a site that you may find interesting.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

6. There has never been a documented case of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker...

I have no issues with 99% of what they have on the site, but that line is pure BS. I'm not saying weed causes cancer, but I doubt they did much checking on that stat. Hell, I had an aunt who never smoked anything and she died of lung cancer.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[regulator 0]

I suspect your stats are incorrect.

I'm fairly certain the CO from far fewer joints in that time period would be enough to kill you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps you can do a research study and come back to us with some results? And I'm not saying kill yourself, but how could you know for sure one way or the other?

[billvon 3,120]

>Imagine what would happen if everybody in the world got drunk for a
>day...

I think you'd have to compare:

having one beer vs having one joint

getting drunk vs having 20 joints

Your comparison gets a little different.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

>Imagine what would happen if everybody in the world got drunk for a
>day...

I think you'd have to compare:

having one beer vs having one joint

getting drunk vs having 20 joints

Your comparison gets a little different.

Does one smoke 20 joints? I thought the norm was substantially lower than that.

[LongWayToFall 0]

I am doing a report on the legalization of marijuana, so this topic caught my eye. There is lots of misinformation in the links on this page, including one which I thought was pretty big. Marijuana, for sure, does create issues for late teens/young adults. It affects their development, mostly maturity and ability to handle social problems. I am a victim, along with many friends and I know many others. This happens because Marijuana makes you care less about getting things done, and makes you "ok" with situations which maybe you can improve. Getting out of high school and starting your life, while being a heavy smoker, makes it much much harder.

A summary of my report is going to be along these lines:

I am against legalization.
I support officers having access to mouth swabs, to determine if a driver is high.
I want reduced criminal penalties, (possession of 1oz or less is not criminal) but higher fines (maybe 3 fines at $1,000-$3,000-$6,000) or something and further possession charges would require community service.
Possession of large quantities or intent to sell would still be a misdemeanor.
Possession of less than 8oz, as well as less than 2 or 3 mature plants, IN THE HOME, would NOT be a crime.
Being high in public would not be a crime, unless operating a car or being dangerous to others.

My whole theme with this, is that I want people to grow small amounts of weed and smoke in their own homes. What they do there is their business. If they bring it outside their homes, or sell/buy it, then they should be punished. I am also very against driving while high.
Anyways, what do you guys think?

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

>Imagine what would happen if everybody in the world got drunk for a
>day...

I think you'd have to compare:

having one beer vs having one joint

getting drunk vs having 20 joints

Your comparison gets a little different.

Does one smoke 20 joints? I thought the norm was substantially lower than that.

A study from 1973 found that squirrels forced to smoke more than 3 joints per day tended to lose their sense of self-preservation and play with their nuts instead of storing them.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley