How it gets paid for...

[airdvr 210]

It's been difficult to find any info on how this new reform will be expensed. Obama says it's fully funded and actually will reduct the deficit by 100B
http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/22/news/economy/obama_proposal_payfors/index.htm?postversion=2010022216

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Tax high-cost medical plans: Obama would impose an excise tax on insurers offering high-cost health insurance policies.

Realspeak: Insurance company offering a good policy gets their balls chopped. We all get lesser coverage or you can pay even more for your cadillac plan.

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Increase Medicare tax on high-income households: Currently, the Medicare payroll tax is 2.9% on all wages -- with the worker and his employer each paying 1.45%.

Realspeak: Tax increase

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Require insurance coverage: The president would impose a financial penalty on most Americans who don't buy health insurance.

Realspeak: Let me see ze inzurance papers comrade

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Require employers to pay if they don't provide coverage: The president's proposal would also impose requirements on employers with more than 50 employees to pay into the system if they do not provide their workers with coverage, or if they provide a plan but it proves unaffordable for some workers.

Realspeak: Let me see ze inzurance papers comrade who operates the collective.

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Impose new fees on the health industry: The president's proposal would impose new fees on health care companies such as drugmakers, medical device makers and insurers. The fees would be in exchange for the new business that will come their way as a result of the expected influx of Americans who will obtain health coverage and use more medical services.

Realspeak: We'll tell you how much you're allowed to make.

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Trim various health-related tax breaks: The president's proposal would impose an additional 10% penalty for non-health withdrawals from tax-advantaged health savings accounts.

Realspeak: A tax that doesn't look like a tax.

My feeling is this, if you have a quality policy you can kiss it goodbye in the name of making sure your bretheren get theirs. If you don't have coverage you'll be required to buy some POS policy that really doesn't do much except in the case of a catastrophic event.

Fail

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 210]

Wanted to bump this in light of all the talk about HC reform and the fact that I was surprised and a little disappointed that I couldn't get anyone riled up with this when I first posted it last week.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[pirana 0]

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Wanted to bump this in light of all the talk about HC reform and the fact that I was surprised and a little disappointed that I couldn't get anyone riled up with this when I first posted it last week.

It's a shell game. Basically, unless the actual cost of care is reduced, it just amounts to another redistribution of wealth scheme. It does not appear that any expenses will be taken out of the system or reduced significantly; just a reshuffling of who pays.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[airdvr 210]

I don't see the shell...I see a big hole. Where do you see the offsetting decrease in costs? Taxes and fees and requirements to pay more for most so that some can get theirs.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 2,156]

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I don't see the shell...I see a big hole. Where do you see the offsetting decrease in costs? Taxes and fees and requirements to pay more for most so that some can get theirs.

You like it that some DON'T get the health care they need right now, because it saves you money?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lucky... 0]

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I don't see the shell...I see a big hole. Where do you see the offsetting decrease in costs? Taxes and fees and requirements to pay more for most so that some can get theirs.

You like it that some DON'T get the health care they need right now, because it saves you money?

Don't worry, the biggest crybabbies for "free" HC come from the right, just after they denouce it. Those close to them who ask, "I thought you were against it, why are you using it?" Then flip-floppers then say, "If I'm paying for it, I might as well use it." OR "Hey, I deserve it more than those other people."

Know how to make a liberal? Take a conservative and put them in a place of need.

[airdvr 210]

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I don't see the shell...I see a big hole. Where do you see the offsetting decrease in costs? Taxes and fees and requirements to pay more for most so that some can get theirs.

You like it that some DON'T get the health care they need right now, because it saves you money?

No taking your bait. I know it costs me regardless. I have a problem with being required to pay for it. It being HC and all of the other entitlement programs. It's getting old to me John...paying so someone else gets something for nothing.

This new version requires everyone to buy HC or face penalties.. What a crock! If I don't work or pay taxes what are you going to penalize? It requires businesses of a certain size to provide coverage. Ultimately the consumer will pay for that in the form of higher retail prices.

I've yet to see anything in these discussions that indicates the basic problems of affordability and accesability will be improved for everyone.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 2,156]

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I don't see the shell...I see a big hole. Where do you see the offsetting decrease in costs? Taxes and fees and requirements to pay more for most so that some can get theirs.

You like it that some DON'T get the health care they need right now, because it saves you money?

No taking your bait. I know it costs me regardless. I have a problem with being required to pay for it.

It does indeed cost you (and me) regardless. Right now your premiums are higher because indigents and freeloaders just go to ERs for treatment. ERs are just about the MOST expensive option for treatment of minor ailments. What we have right now cannot by any stretch be called a "system" - it is just chaotic and ad-hoc.

Since I'll pay anyway, I'd just prefer that it was organized in some systematic way, and not direct the indigents to the MOST expensive treatment centers..

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 210]

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Right now your premiums are higher because indigents and freeloaders just go to ERs for treatment. ERs are just about the MOST expensive option for treatment of minor ailments

I have a hard time believing my premiums are high because of that aspect. Indigents and freeloaders already have government sponsored healthcare programs. I still haven't seen anything that makes me believe my costs will be reduced in any appreciable amount.

Nothing on tort. Right now we do 'make sure we don't get sued ' treatment. Really expensive lawyer driven.

My stent implant and 2 day stay in the ICU was $54,000. My insurance company only paid a small portion of that amount (25-30%). My part of that program was $5,500. But guess what...lot's of people wouldn't be able to do $5,500 much less $54,000. So what's mproved? Am I to believe I'll have a lower deductible? Doubtful. My deductible and premiums won't go higher? Sounds alot like 'jobs saved or created' thinking. Awful difficult to quantify.

Where does the rest go? Write off for the hospital and doctors I'm sure. Nothing in there about that I've seen.

Competition? Nah.

I'm just not seeing the benefit.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne