JohnRich 4 #1 March 11, 2010 News:Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures President Barack Obama has repeatedly claimed that his budget would cut the deficit by half by the end of his term. But as Heritage analyst Brian Riedl has pointed out, given that Obama has already helped quadruple the deficit with his stimulus package, pledging to halve it by 2013 is hardly ambitious. The Washington Post has a great graphic which helps put President Obama’s budget deficits in context of President Bush’s...Source: http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #2 March 11, 2010 Shhhh....you're not allowed to speak badly of Obama, and certainly not in the same sentence as GWB. Didn't you get the memo?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #3 March 11, 2010 Ok, ok. You win. Maybe we can get Obama to move things off budget and fund them all with "emergency" spending requests. From the lack of historical complaints, you guys obviously feel better about the numbers that way. Oooo...and maybe we can start another war so we can have another tax cut! I LOVE conservative math! It's so......."freedomy"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #4 March 11, 2010 I seem to recall predictions by conservatives of a huge Clinton deficit by the end of his term . He proved them wrong.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #5 March 11, 2010 No need to wait for the end of the term in this case. The fact is the political will is not there in the population to cut the deficit. Obama is not going to be able to do it and it is not certain his successor will have the ability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #6 March 11, 2010 Clinton left office with a surplus, the first president to do so in a very long time. Obama inherited an economy in chaos. What do you think a President McCain would likely have done/would do differently, and what different effect would you predict it would have on the economy over the next several years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 March 11, 2010 John, I don't disagree with the principle of the argument being presented, but that graphic is pretty outdated. We know the final result for 2009 - it was 1.42T. Not 1.75 or 1.85 as projected, for a variety of reasons (returned TARP money being one of them, I think) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TKE_440 0 #8 March 11, 2010 Why do people still say Clinton left with a surplus? Yes, Clinton dropped spending on military budgets, and one could argue for the good or bad, but his "surplus" was flawed. The national debt continued to grow with a deficit under Clinton, and never had a tru surplus. He borrowed between years, and by law, any surplus social security had had to be bought back into intra-governmental bonds. In Clinton's case, they just immediately turned around, spent the money, Clinton got applauded, maybe brought down the public debt a small amount, but the intra-governmental went much higher, exponentially, which added to the national debt. There never really was any surplus with Clinton! "Projected this, projected that..." Doesn't matter. The money he used to bring down the debt to make him look good has to be spent out by ~2017. He didn't prove anyone wrong who actually looks at more than the "Bush Adm. messed everything up" rhetoric. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #9 March 11, 2010 when you contrast Clinton's second term with the reigns or either Bush or Obama's first two years, quibbling over how much of a surplus it really was seems silly. Bush's tax cuts right after entering office might have been fine if he didn't couple it with large spending increases. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #10 March 11, 2010 Quote We know the final result for 2009 - it was 1.42T. Not 1.75 or 1.85 as projected, for a variety of reasons (returned TARP money being one of them, I think) For the record, in January 2009: CBO projects that the deficit this year will total$1.2 trillion, or 8.3 percent of GDP. Enactment of an economic stimulus package would add to that deficit. Sounds like they nailed it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #11 March 11, 2010 Quote Bush's tax cuts right after entering office might have been fine if he didn't couple it with large spending increases. I believe I heard Greenspan at the time say this very thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #12 March 11, 2010 QuoteClinton left office with a surplus, the first president to do so in a very long time. Obama inherited an economy in chaos. What do you think a President McCain would likely have done/would do differently, and what different effect would you predict it would have on the economy over the next several years? you mean the rep congress showed a surplus at the end of Clintons term and the dem congress left a huge deficit at the end of Bush's term. It is congress that writes and passes the budget isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #13 March 12, 2010 ...and true to government underestimation of expenses those budget deficits will be even larger than forecast. Map this to a graphic of the debt and you'll want to scream. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 March 12, 2010 Quote Map this to a graphic of the debt and you'll want to scream. Attached. Source: http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/28/obama%E2%80%99s-tripling-of-the-national-debt-in-pictures/ Hope and Change! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 March 12, 2010 Quote I seem to recall predictions by conservatives of a huge Clinton deficit by the end of his term . He proved them wrong. Amazing what happens when a Republican Congress forces a balanced budget and cuts capital gains tax.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #16 March 12, 2010 Quotewhen you contrast Clinton's second term with the reigns or either Bush or Obama's first two years, quibbling over how much of a surplus it really was seems silly. Bush's tax cuts right after entering office might have been fine if he didn't couple it with large spending increases. +1Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #17 March 12, 2010 John, my inquiry in post #6 wasn't posturing; it was a genuine request for your opinion: >>What do you think a President McCain would likely have done/would do differently, and what different effect would you predict it would have on the economy over the next several years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #18 March 12, 2010 QuoteWhy do people still say Clinton left with a surplus? . Since this was a response to my post, I DIDN'T CLAIM THAT. Clinton's deficits, however, were way way lower than the predictions made at the beginning of his term. And Bush's deficits were way way higher than the predictions made at the beginning of his term. So we can only conclude that deficit predictions are, for the most part, complete bunk.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #19 March 12, 2010 Quote Amazing what happens when a Republican Congress forces a balanced budget.... That made coffee come out of my nose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #20 March 12, 2010 QuoteQuote Amazing what happens when a Republican Congress forces a balanced budget.... That made coffee come out of my nose. Wow - I never realized that you were so young that you don't recall the government shutdowns in '95. Do your parents know you're on here? link QuoteWASHINGTON -- With the government partially shut down for a fourth day, President Clinton and Republican congressional leaders agreed last night to reopen talks aimed at reaching a deal on a balanced budget, possibly by the end of the year. . . . It brought together Mr. Gingrich, the leader of the conservative GOP House troops that have been the most determined force behind the balanced budget movement, with President Clinton, who has scored in the polls by portraying himself as a defender of programs for the old, the sick, the poor and children.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #21 March 12, 2010 Quote Wow - I never realized that you were so young that you don't recall the government shutdowns in '95. No. I remember it all too well. Crybaby Gingrich (please let me sit in the front of the plane) shut down the government and FUCKED UP my 10 day climbing trip to Mt. Rainier.Sure, he wanted to balance the budget by cutting entitlements. That's been a stated goal and the government shut down was one method used so far. Others include spending extravagantly in other areas in hopes that we'd eventually have to cut them loose. After the Bush (43) years it appears that they're closer than ever to achieving that goal (except ironically, they're working very hard to protect medicare at the moment...curious indeed). The Republicans talk a lot of smack about balancing budgets and fiscal responsibility....but only when they're not in control of the spending. I guess six years of complete control of both houses and the Presidency isn't long enough to pass a balanced budget amendment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 March 12, 2010 Quote (except ironically, they're working very hard to protect medicare at the moment...curious indeed). Well, after the Dems screaming about Medicare all those years, then putting forward a bill to cut half a trillion dollars from it... *shrug* Quote The Republicans talk a lot of smack about balancing budgets and fiscal responsibility....but only when they're not in control of the spending. I guess six years of complete control of both houses and the Presidency isn't long enough to pass a balanced budget amendment. Unfortunately, BOTH sides of the aisle have been spending like drunken sailors in a whorehouse (as I believe I've said many times before).Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #23 March 12, 2010 Quote Quote Wow - I never realized that you were so young that you don't recall the government shutdowns in '95. No. I remember it all too well. Crybaby Gingrich (please let me sit in the front of the plane) shut down the government and FUCKED UP my 10 day climbing trip to Mt. Rainier. Thanks to Carter's boycott, I couldn't compete in the 1980 Moscow Olympics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #24 March 12, 2010 QuoteThanks to Carter's boycott, I couldn't compete in the 1980 Moscow Olympics. What event?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #25 March 12, 2010 Quote Thanks to Carter's boycott, I couldn't compete in the 1980 Moscow Olympics. That sucks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites