California man gets eight years for stealing cheese

[dreamdancer 0]

sounds a bit extreme...

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A California man has been sentenced to up to eight years in prison for stealing a $3.99 (£2.60) bag of shredded cheese in a case critics say shows the need for reform of the state's criminal justice system and the overcrowded state of its prisons.

Robert Ferguson, who prosecutors say has a nearly 30-year record of convictions for burglary and other offences, avoided a life sentence under the state's controversial "three strikes" law after a psychological evaluation deemed him bipolar and unable to control his impulses to steal, the Sacramento Bee reported.

Prosecutor Clinton Parish said Ferguson had spent 22 of the past 27 years behind bars but had failed to show he could obey the law. A judge sentenced him to seven years and eight months in prison, but he could be eligible for parole in three years.

The ruling came amid critical overcrowding in the California prison system, to which years of tough policies, the "war on drugs" and one of the highest US recidivism rates have contributed. The system held 166,569 inmates in August, but remains so overcrowded nearly 8,000 have been sent to prisons outside the state.

The state's three strikes law, passed in 1994, significantly increased the amount of time repeat convicted criminals serve in prison. It provides 25 years to life in prison for a third felony conviction by an offender with two or more prior serious or violent criminal convictions. As of March 2008, more than 41,000 people were in prison under the three strikes law. A 2005 legislative report estimated the law, including its application to nonviolent offences, added about $0.5bn in costs annually.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/03/california-eight-years-stealing-cheese

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kelpdiver 2]

I'm not a fan of mandated sentencing or simplistic 3 strikes laws, but when you got a guy who has spent 70% of the past 3 decades in jail for constant criminal offenses, I have no problem at all with a long sentence here. The cheese is what he got caught for...how many other items did he steal prior?

If you want to argue the mental health issue instead, I think there's more to play with.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

You can sleep with a man's wife or steal his car, but you don't mess with a man's cheese or kick his dog.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[BillyVance 35]

I thought he'd stolen cocheese.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[dreamdancer 0]

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If you want to argue the mental health issue instead, I think there's more to play with.

i think we'll have to plough through a few posts from the 'flog 'em and hang 'em' prison groupies before we'll get to a real discussion - see you then

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I'm not a fan of mandated sentencing or simplistic 3 strikes laws, but when you got a guy who has spent 70% of the past 3 decades in jail for constant criminal offenses, I have no problem at all with a long sentence here.

As a California tax payer I have a big problem with the sentence.

With per-inmate costs of $50,000 a year in California, the long sentence is going to cost the tax payers $150,000 - $400,000.

Assuming the criminal was a tub-o-lard eating 3500 calories a day and we let him steal all the cheese he could eat at $4 a bag retail we'd only be loosing $2920 a year.

I'd prefer the second option.

[kelpdiver 2]

there's a presumption that he's only stealing cheese. Unlikely to be true.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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there's a presumption that he's only stealing cheese. Unlikely to be true.

Although as long as he's staying away from cars and valuables, it's still going to be less expensive to leave him on the street.

[billvon 3,120]

>Although as long as he's staying away from cars and valuables, it's still
>going to be less expensive to leave him on the street.

So if he just steals, say, an occasional jump ticket from wallets at the DZ - you're OK leaving him on the street?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>Although as long as he's staying away from cars and valuables, it's still
>going to be less expensive to leave him on the street.

So if he just steals, say, an occasional jump ticket from wallets at the DZ - you're OK leaving him on the street?

I cannot imagine the ride to altitude next to a guy who only eats cheese.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[lawrocket 3]

A few things:

(1) The guy was convicted of two separate crimes. One was stealing the cheese from a market. The other was stealing a lady's wallet from a 7-11. I guess it doesn't work well to say a wallet, cash, credit cards, etc., were stolen when you can blame is on the cheese.

(2) The Perp is lucky. He could have gotten life in prison.

(3) The California Corrections Officers Union is probably the most powerful lobby in California.

(4) These stories are nothing new. For over ten years, it's been well known that stealing a slice of pizza can be cause for life in prison.

Like it or not, there are sociopaths out there. The defense attorney claimed the guy was bipolar and had no impulse control in manic phases. This may be - mental health treatment sucks in the system.

And it may not be - too many use that excuse, and those should be locked away.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DJL 235]

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there's a presumption that he's only stealing cheese. Unlikely to be true.

There's also a presumption of innocence in case you weren't aware.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[dreamdancer 0]

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there's a presumption that he's only stealing cheese. Unlikely to be true.

There's also a presumption of innocence in case you weren't aware.

bv has also got him stealing jump tickets

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kelpdiver 2]

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there's a presumption that he's only stealing cheese. Unlikely to be true.

There's also a presumption of innocence in case you weren't aware.

I suppose, but he was found guilty here, and guilty numerous times in the past, so that's plenty of reason to go on the higher side of the sentencing guidelines. He's is a multi repeat offender, and I find Lawrocket's additional notes of a stolen wallet to be rather interesting. Unless false, that really changes the story, doesn't it? Suggests the original author that DD cited was a lying bleeding heart type.

But even if we stick to the cheese only notion - you can't measure crime merely by its direct impact. If society tolerates pretty theft, then people see less reason to obey 'petty laws.' Just as one crappy house on the block leads to others letting their home go, or one bit of grafitti leads to more.

Shoplifting isn't free - all non stealing consumers pay for it.

[DJL 235]

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I'm not a fan of mandated sentencing or simplistic 3 strikes laws, but when you got a guy who has spent 70% of the past 3 decades in jail for constant criminal offenses, I have no problem at all with a long sentence here. The cheese is what he got caught for...how many other items did he steal prior?

If you want to argue the mental health issue instead, I think there's more to play with.

Mandatory sentences take discretion away from judges and ignore the tenets of our legal system that the penalty must fit the crime and that the punishment cannot be cruel and unusual. This is why we have judges, there must be a human involved to oversee the proceedings and use their esteemed discretion. Any counter argument saying that judges are subject to corruption or inconsistency must specifically address those issues instead of creating a system that allows them to continue unchecked.

The alternative to this is to allow stiffer penalties for repeat offenders or allow the judge further discretion in the penalty. If a city/state/nation has a system that can recognize some type of psychological issue with this person then that can be applied. If not then the only choice may be to put him back in the clink.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DJL 235]

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he was found guilty here, and guilty numerous times in the past, so that's plenty of reason to go on the higher side of the sentencing guidelines.

I agree, still it must be at the discretion of the court. There's no reason for society to have to deal with a person in their midst who is a habitual criminal. The next instance could possibly result in a conflict that could leave someone injured or dead. So, with that thought is 7 years really enough. If you're talking about a 20 year old who has been stealing since he was a kid and finally the judge decides that he needs to be put away for a longer time then that 27-year-old getting out of jail may emerge as a more mature individual. If we're talking about a 37-year-old then we might want to sent him to the shrinks this time around.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[airdvr 210]

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If you want to argue the mental health issue instead, I think there's more to play with.

i think we'll have to plough through a few posts from the 'flog 'em and hang 'em' prison groupies before we'll get to a real discussion - see you then

Why ask the question if you're not interested in the answer?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

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he was found guilty here, and guilty numerous times in the past, so that's plenty of reason to go on the higher side of the sentencing guidelines.

I agree, still it must be at the discretion of the court. There's no reason for society to have to deal with a person in their midst who is a habitual criminal. The next instance could possibly result in a conflict that could leave someone injured or dead. So, with that thought is 7 years really enough. If you're talking about a 20 year old who has been stealing since he was a kid and finally the judge decides that he needs to be put away for a longer time then that 27-year-old getting out of jail may emerge as a more mature individual. If we're talking about a 37-year-old then we might want to sent him to the shrinks this time around.

Its starting to look like the whole "Escape from New York, Escape From LA" thing is starting to look better and better.

Send them all to "Coventry"... and let them rip each other off to their hearts content.

[DJL 235]

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he was found guilty here, and guilty numerous times in the past, so that's plenty of reason to go on the higher side of the sentencing guidelines.

I agree, still it must be at the discretion of the court. There's no reason for society to have to deal with a person in their midst who is a habitual criminal. The next instance could possibly result in a conflict that could leave someone injured or dead. So, with that thought is 7 years really enough. If you're talking about a 20 year old who has been stealing since he was a kid and finally the judge decides that he needs to be put away for a longer time then that 27-year-old getting out of jail may emerge as a more mature individual. If we're talking about a 37-year-old then we might want to sent him to the shrinks this time around.

Its starting to look like the whole "Escape from New York, Escape From LA" thing is starting to look better and better.

Send them all to "Coventry"... and let them rip each other off to their hearts content.

If you had a choice between sex with a Robert Duvalesque Colonel and Coventry then which would YOU choose?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[futuredivot 0]

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sounds a bit extreme.

That depends on if you look at it as 8 years for petty theft (harsh) or only 8 years for a career criminal (light)

I've known people that should serve 20 years for cutting cheese-but they too were repeat offenders.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[DFWAJG 4]

Sadly, many of the prisoners are tremendously mentally ill. Likely, even with his extensive criminal background, he isn't criminally minded, just hungry, and not able to provide himself with food because he was gravely disabled. I unfortunately have seen a lot of this in the California prison system. Since Reagan closed most of the state's State Hospitals, the prisons have served as the state hospital. Estimates of mentally ill in prison will reach 50% by 2012.

[DFWAJG 4]

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And it may not be - too many use that excuse, and those should be locked away.

Actually, it is underutilized in the California penal system. I have seen way too many very mentally ill individuals in the prison system, who would be better served, and served more efficiently, in the hospital setting. I have also, on the flip side, seen many criminals, although not as many, take advantage of the hospital system, trapping doctors into keeping them there, with malingered suicidality. For the most part, NGRI's (guilty, not guilty by reason of insanity) is very underutilized.

[captain1976 0]

Its starting to look like the whole "Escape from New York, Escape From LA" thing is starting to look better and better.
/reply]

That really might be a great idea, but even better would be an island prison/factory that effectively creates production. Let them pay their own way.

In previous centuries criminals were simply eliminated, now we simply cage them at a tremendous cost.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I thought he'd stolen cocheese.

Or he got eight years for cutting the cheese.

Speed Racer
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