kallend 2,147 #151 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteHowever, all a felon has to do is go to a gun show in VA, MN, (or many others) where NO checking is done on sales by unlicensed dealers. You're either a licensed dealer or a private seller - there *IS* no such thing as an 'unlicensed dealer'. That may be where your continuing confusion on the matter comes from. No such thing as an unlicensed driver, either, by that reasoning. Apparently all you can rely on now is semantics since I've shown that 1. there is an existing law against selling guns to certain classes of people (felons, etc.), 2. that there is an easy way for felons to circumvent this law (a "loophole"), 3. that said loophole can be closed (and has been in some states), and 4. that the gun lobby still opposes attempts in other states to close it. (Cites provided) And Mike, your repeated denials simply reinforce my position.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #152 March 9, 2010 QuoteNo such thing as an unlicensed driver, either, by that reasoning. Apparently all you can rely on now is semantics Quote1. there is an existing law against selling guns to certain classes of people (felons, etc.), Correct - for once. Quote2. that there is an easy way for felons to circumvent this law (a "loophole"), Provide cite to the federal law that requires a NIC check for private sales. Quote3. that said loophole can be closed (and has been in some states), and State law != federal law. Quote4. that the gun lobby still opposes attempts in other states to close it. (Cites provided) That would be the NRA and local analogues that you claim was 'my projection', yes? QuoteAnd Mike, your repeated denials simply reinforce my position. No, they just show the hypocrisy between whining about the 0.7 percent of crime guns bought at gunshows and doing NOTHING about the 79.8 percent aquired from friends, family or street sources. But then again, we really don't expect any better of you, since you really don't care about the issue except the publicity of it. So, now that you have your latest whine out of the way, how about showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #153 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteNo such thing as an unlicensed driver, either, by that reasoning. Apparently all you can rely on now is semantics Quote1. there is an existing law against selling guns to certain classes of people (felons, etc.), Correct - for once. Quote2. that there is an easy way for felons to circumvent this law (a "loophole"), Provide cite to the federal law that requires a NIC check for private sales. Quote Not relevant in the slightest to the point in question. Quote3. that said loophole can be closed (and has been in some states), and State law != federal law. Quote NOT RELEVANT IN THE SLIGHTEST TO THE POINT IN QUESTION. Quote 4. that the gun lobby still opposes attempts in other states to close it. (Cites provided) That would be the NRA and local analogues that you claim was 'my projection', yes? QuoteAnd Mike, your repeated denials simply reinforce my position. No, they just show the hypocrisy between whining about the 0.7 percent of crime guns bought at gunshows and doing NOTHING about the 79.8 percent aquired from friends, family or street sources. Not according to the BATF (cite provided), take it up with them. From the BATF report: "A prior review of ATF gun show investigations shows that prohibited persons, such as convicted felons and juveniles, do personally buy firearms at gun shows and gun shows are sources of firearms that are trafficked to such prohibited persons. The gun show review found that firearms were diverted at and through gun shows by straw purchasers, unregulated private sellers, and licensed dealers. Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Firearms that were illegally diverted at or through gun shows were recovered in subsequent crimes, including homicide and robbery, in more than a third of the gun show investigations." The poverty of your position is clearly shown by your having to resort to semantics, to irrelevancies, and to surveys that depend on the honesty of criminals. *rolls eyes*... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #154 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote2. that there is an easy way for felons to circumvent this law (a "loophole"), Provide cite to the federal law that requires a NIC check for private sales. Not relevant in the slightest to the point in question. Absolutely relevant, since you are talking about a supposed loophole in a FEDERAL law. QuoteQuoteQuote3. that said loophole can be closed (and has been in some states), and State law != federal law. NOT RELEVANT IN THE SLIGHTEST TO THE POINT IN QUESTION. Absolutely relevant, since you are talking about a supposed loophole in a FEDERAL law. QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd Mike, your repeated denials simply reinforce my position. No, they just show the hypocrisy between whining about the 0.7 percent of crime guns bought at gunshows and doing NOTHING about the 79.8 percent aquired from friends, family or street sources. Not according to the BATF (cite provided), take it up with them. True, according to DOJ Bureau of Statistics. Take it up with them. We're still waiting on you to show how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of the law as you originally claimed. Planning on doing that anytime soon, or are you going to admit that was a lie, too?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #155 March 9, 2010 The study you cite repeatedly depends on the HONESTY of CONVICTED CRIMINALS *rolls eyes*. I wonder how many of them also said they were "not guilty". The BATF study traced the guns, which don't lie. Mike, your wriggling and twisting just proves that I am correct. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #156 March 9, 2010 When are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #157 March 9, 2010 QuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #158 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo I was completely correct in my original statement. John, when you say as much nothing as you do, people just stop caring if you think you're right. Irony score 10/10... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #159 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843 Still unanswered, and oppositing to NEW law != 'preventing the enforcement of existing law' that you claimed. "Enforcement of EXISTING laws", John - so simple, even a physics professor *should* be able to understand it. Prove it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #160 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843 Still unanswered, and oppositing to NEW law != 'preventing the enforcement of existing law' that you claimed. "Enforcement of EXISTING laws", John - so simple, even a physics professor *should* be able to understand it. Prove it. NEW laws are needed because enforcement of the existing law against selling guns to felons etc., is so easily circumvented on account of the LOOPHOLE. The gun lobby opposes closing the loophole while at the same time taking the contradictory positioin that it doesn't exist. QED Your semantic games are just stupid.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #161 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843 Still unanswered, and oppositing to NEW law != 'preventing the enforcement of existing law' that you claimed. "Enforcement of EXISTING laws", John - so simple, even a physics professor *should* be able to understand it. Prove it. NEW laws are needed because enforcement of the existing law against selling guns to felons etc., is so easily circumvented. The gun lobby opposes the new laws. Your semantic games are just stupid. YOU are the one that made the claim, quit lying and trying to call it semantics games when you get called out to prove it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #162 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843 Still unanswered, and oppositing to NEW law != 'preventing the enforcement of existing law' that you claimed. "Enforcement of EXISTING laws", John - so simple, even a physics professor *should* be able to understand it. Prove it. NEW laws are needed because enforcement of the existing law against selling guns to felons etc., is so easily circumvented. The gun lobby opposes the new laws. Your semantic games are just stupid. YOU are the one that made the claim, quit lying and trying to call it semantics games when you get called out to prove it. All you have is semantics and a survey based on the assumption that criminals don't lie. There IS a loophole that allows felons and other undesirables to circumvent the law. It CAN be closed. The gun lobby opposes all efforts to close it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #163 March 9, 2010 QuoteAll you have is semantics and a survey based on the assumption that criminals don't lie. "Preventing enforcement of EXISTING laws" QuoteThere IS a loophole that allows felons and other undesirables to circumvent the law. By all means, show us how those felons are getting guns from licensed dealers without a NICS check, then. QuoteIt CAN be closed. The gun lobby opposes all efforts to close it. Oh, so you were LYING when you whined over and over again about the 'gun lobby' blocking enforcement of EXISTING law? We already knew that, but it's nice to see you finally admit it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhaig 0 #164 March 9, 2010 Quote NEW laws are needed because enforcement of the existing law against selling guns to felons etc., is so easily circumvented on account of the LOOPHOLE. The gun lobby opposes closing the loophole while at the same time taking the contradictory positioin that it doesn't exist. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loophole Quoteloop·hole n. 1. A way of escaping a difficulty, especially an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law that provides a means of evading compliance. is there a specific way of escaping a difficulty that refers to gunshows? No. The "loophole" you continue to refer to is that a private citizen can sell personal property without a NICS check. (in many states) When asked, you replied that gunshows are where many of those transactions take place. The "loophole" is only tangentially related to gunshows, and directly related to the fact that the person selling the weapon does not do so frequently (different states define "dealer" differently, but it's common to consider frequency) and is not a "dealer" who must be registered through BATF. so without having proposed a solution, you leave us to assume you want all firearm transactions registered at a federal level. (gun registration) Or as you've said that the WA law regarding gun show purchases is a good one, we must also assume you would like gun owners to be federally licensed.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #165 March 9, 2010 I have clarified my meaning over and over again. The EXISTING law is the one that prohibits sales of guns to certain undesirable persons. The loophole is the process by which these undesirables can avoid a NICS check. It is well defined even if you wish to deny it. You even admitted that it is a problem in a post that you subsequently deleted. If you and Mike can't get over the semantics, then you are just being childish.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #166 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteAll you have is semantics and a survey based on the assumption that criminals don't lie. "Preventing enforcement of EXISTING laws" QuoteThere IS a loophole that allows felons and other undesirables to circumvent the law. By all means, show us how those felons are getting guns from licensed dealers without a NICS check, then. QuoteIt CAN be closed. The gun lobby opposes all efforts to close it. Oh, so you were LYING when you whined over and over again about the 'gun lobby' blocking enforcement of EXISTING law? We already knew that, but it's nice to see you finally admit it. Childish semantic argument. My meaning is and always has been clear.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #167 March 9, 2010 Quote The loophole is the process by which these undesirables can avoid a NICS check. You still haven't shown how the criminals are avoiding NICS checks by licensed dealers - going to do that anytime soon? QuoteIt is well defined even if you wish to deny it. Only in your rich fantasy life. QuoteYou even admitted that it is a problem in a post that you subsequently deleted. Probably after he realized the bullshit you were trying to pass off as a 'loophole'. QuoteIf you and Mike can't get over the semantics, then you are just being childish. "Preventing the enforcement of EXISTING laws"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #168 March 9, 2010 Quote The loophole is the process by which these undesirables can avoid a NICS check. You still haven't shown how the criminals are avoiding NICS checks by licensed dealers - going to do that anytime soon? QuoteIt is well defined even if you wish to deny it. Only in your rich fantasy life. QuoteYou even admitted that it is a problem in a post that you subsequently deleted. Probably after he realized the bullshit you were trying to pass off as a 'loophole'. QuoteIf you and Mike can't get over the semantics, then you are just being childish. "Preventing the enforcement of EXISTING laws"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #169 March 9, 2010 QuoteChildish semantic argument. My meaning[s/] LIE is and always has been clear. Fixed that for you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhaig 0 #170 March 9, 2010 I've never denied there is a loophole. I've denied that that loophole has anything to do with gun shows.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #171 March 9, 2010 QuoteI've never denied there is a loophole. I've denied that that loophole has anything to do with gun shows. According to the BATF study on the sources of illegal guns that they traced, gun show purchases from unlicensed vendors were the 2nd biggest. (Note to mnealtx: guns don't lie, criminals do) We make progress, one small step at a time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #172 March 9, 2010 Quote "Preventing the enforcement of EXISTING laws" The prohibition on selling guns to felons IS an existing law. All you have is semantics, you don't have anything else.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #173 March 9, 2010 Quote Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Uh, you do realize that 46% of gun show investigations has absolutely no relation to 0.7% of guns used in crimes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #174 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuote Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Uh, you do realize that 46% of gun show investigations has absolutely no relation to 0.7% of guns used in crimes? Umm - purchase of a gun by a felon IS a crime, chief.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #175 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Uh, you do realize that 46% of gun show investigations has absolutely no relation to 0.7% of guns used in crimes? Umm - purchase of a gun by a felon IS a crime, chief. In fact, a convicted felon is breaking the law merely by holding any firearm or even a single live round of ammunition...even a .22 rimfire cartridge. I'm probably jumping into the fire by posting, but here goes. The so-called "gunshow loophole" is not limited just to gunshows or linked to them except by way of private sellers. Anti-gunners want gunshows stopped, so instead of calling it a "private sale" loophole, which it is, they call it a "gunshow" loophole. Get gunshows banned first, then go after private sales. All without addressing the underlying problem. Private sellers should have the option of either running a FREE (to be provided by the Feds) background check on a prospective buyer or not. If he opts to run a check, and the buyer is cleared, then the seller should be relieved of all responsibility for what happens after that. If the seller chooses NOT to run a check, then he/she should be held at least partially responsible for anything that happens IF the buyer would have been turned away by a normal check.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 7 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
mnealtx 0 #154 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote2. that there is an easy way for felons to circumvent this law (a "loophole"), Provide cite to the federal law that requires a NIC check for private sales. Not relevant in the slightest to the point in question. Absolutely relevant, since you are talking about a supposed loophole in a FEDERAL law. QuoteQuoteQuote3. that said loophole can be closed (and has been in some states), and State law != federal law. NOT RELEVANT IN THE SLIGHTEST TO THE POINT IN QUESTION. Absolutely relevant, since you are talking about a supposed loophole in a FEDERAL law. QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd Mike, your repeated denials simply reinforce my position. No, they just show the hypocrisy between whining about the 0.7 percent of crime guns bought at gunshows and doing NOTHING about the 79.8 percent aquired from friends, family or street sources. Not according to the BATF (cite provided), take it up with them. True, according to DOJ Bureau of Statistics. Take it up with them. We're still waiting on you to show how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of the law as you originally claimed. Planning on doing that anytime soon, or are you going to admit that was a lie, too?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #155 March 9, 2010 The study you cite repeatedly depends on the HONESTY of CONVICTED CRIMINALS *rolls eyes*. I wonder how many of them also said they were "not guilty". The BATF study traced the guns, which don't lie. Mike, your wriggling and twisting just proves that I am correct. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #156 March 9, 2010 When are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #157 March 9, 2010 QuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #158 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo I was completely correct in my original statement. John, when you say as much nothing as you do, people just stop caring if you think you're right. Irony score 10/10... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #159 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843 Still unanswered, and oppositing to NEW law != 'preventing the enforcement of existing law' that you claimed. "Enforcement of EXISTING laws", John - so simple, even a physics professor *should* be able to understand it. Prove it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #160 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843 Still unanswered, and oppositing to NEW law != 'preventing the enforcement of existing law' that you claimed. "Enforcement of EXISTING laws", John - so simple, even a physics professor *should* be able to understand it. Prove it. NEW laws are needed because enforcement of the existing law against selling guns to felons etc., is so easily circumvented on account of the LOOPHOLE. The gun lobby opposes closing the loophole while at the same time taking the contradictory positioin that it doesn't exist. QED Your semantic games are just stupid.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #161 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843 Still unanswered, and oppositing to NEW law != 'preventing the enforcement of existing law' that you claimed. "Enforcement of EXISTING laws", John - so simple, even a physics professor *should* be able to understand it. Prove it. NEW laws are needed because enforcement of the existing law against selling guns to felons etc., is so easily circumvented. The gun lobby opposes the new laws. Your semantic games are just stupid. YOU are the one that made the claim, quit lying and trying to call it semantics games when you get called out to prove it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #162 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhen are you planning on showing how the gun lobby is preventing enforcement of existing law, John? Asked and answered previously. Austin (TX), MN, and VA for starters. Also check on gun lobby opposition to H.R. 2324, and S. 843 Still unanswered, and oppositing to NEW law != 'preventing the enforcement of existing law' that you claimed. "Enforcement of EXISTING laws", John - so simple, even a physics professor *should* be able to understand it. Prove it. NEW laws are needed because enforcement of the existing law against selling guns to felons etc., is so easily circumvented. The gun lobby opposes the new laws. Your semantic games are just stupid. YOU are the one that made the claim, quit lying and trying to call it semantics games when you get called out to prove it. All you have is semantics and a survey based on the assumption that criminals don't lie. There IS a loophole that allows felons and other undesirables to circumvent the law. It CAN be closed. The gun lobby opposes all efforts to close it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #163 March 9, 2010 QuoteAll you have is semantics and a survey based on the assumption that criminals don't lie. "Preventing enforcement of EXISTING laws" QuoteThere IS a loophole that allows felons and other undesirables to circumvent the law. By all means, show us how those felons are getting guns from licensed dealers without a NICS check, then. QuoteIt CAN be closed. The gun lobby opposes all efforts to close it. Oh, so you were LYING when you whined over and over again about the 'gun lobby' blocking enforcement of EXISTING law? We already knew that, but it's nice to see you finally admit it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #164 March 9, 2010 Quote NEW laws are needed because enforcement of the existing law against selling guns to felons etc., is so easily circumvented on account of the LOOPHOLE. The gun lobby opposes closing the loophole while at the same time taking the contradictory positioin that it doesn't exist. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loophole Quoteloop·hole n. 1. A way of escaping a difficulty, especially an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law that provides a means of evading compliance. is there a specific way of escaping a difficulty that refers to gunshows? No. The "loophole" you continue to refer to is that a private citizen can sell personal property without a NICS check. (in many states) When asked, you replied that gunshows are where many of those transactions take place. The "loophole" is only tangentially related to gunshows, and directly related to the fact that the person selling the weapon does not do so frequently (different states define "dealer" differently, but it's common to consider frequency) and is not a "dealer" who must be registered through BATF. so without having proposed a solution, you leave us to assume you want all firearm transactions registered at a federal level. (gun registration) Or as you've said that the WA law regarding gun show purchases is a good one, we must also assume you would like gun owners to be federally licensed.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #165 March 9, 2010 I have clarified my meaning over and over again. The EXISTING law is the one that prohibits sales of guns to certain undesirable persons. The loophole is the process by which these undesirables can avoid a NICS check. It is well defined even if you wish to deny it. You even admitted that it is a problem in a post that you subsequently deleted. If you and Mike can't get over the semantics, then you are just being childish.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #166 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteAll you have is semantics and a survey based on the assumption that criminals don't lie. "Preventing enforcement of EXISTING laws" QuoteThere IS a loophole that allows felons and other undesirables to circumvent the law. By all means, show us how those felons are getting guns from licensed dealers without a NICS check, then. QuoteIt CAN be closed. The gun lobby opposes all efforts to close it. Oh, so you were LYING when you whined over and over again about the 'gun lobby' blocking enforcement of EXISTING law? We already knew that, but it's nice to see you finally admit it. Childish semantic argument. My meaning is and always has been clear.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #167 March 9, 2010 Quote The loophole is the process by which these undesirables can avoid a NICS check. You still haven't shown how the criminals are avoiding NICS checks by licensed dealers - going to do that anytime soon? QuoteIt is well defined even if you wish to deny it. Only in your rich fantasy life. QuoteYou even admitted that it is a problem in a post that you subsequently deleted. Probably after he realized the bullshit you were trying to pass off as a 'loophole'. QuoteIf you and Mike can't get over the semantics, then you are just being childish. "Preventing the enforcement of EXISTING laws"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #168 March 9, 2010 Quote The loophole is the process by which these undesirables can avoid a NICS check. You still haven't shown how the criminals are avoiding NICS checks by licensed dealers - going to do that anytime soon? QuoteIt is well defined even if you wish to deny it. Only in your rich fantasy life. QuoteYou even admitted that it is a problem in a post that you subsequently deleted. Probably after he realized the bullshit you were trying to pass off as a 'loophole'. QuoteIf you and Mike can't get over the semantics, then you are just being childish. "Preventing the enforcement of EXISTING laws"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #169 March 9, 2010 QuoteChildish semantic argument. My meaning[s/] LIE is and always has been clear. Fixed that for you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #170 March 9, 2010 I've never denied there is a loophole. I've denied that that loophole has anything to do with gun shows.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #171 March 9, 2010 QuoteI've never denied there is a loophole. I've denied that that loophole has anything to do with gun shows. According to the BATF study on the sources of illegal guns that they traced, gun show purchases from unlicensed vendors were the 2nd biggest. (Note to mnealtx: guns don't lie, criminals do) We make progress, one small step at a time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #172 March 9, 2010 Quote "Preventing the enforcement of EXISTING laws" The prohibition on selling guns to felons IS an existing law. All you have is semantics, you don't have anything else.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #173 March 9, 2010 Quote Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Uh, you do realize that 46% of gun show investigations has absolutely no relation to 0.7% of guns used in crimes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #174 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuote Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Uh, you do realize that 46% of gun show investigations has absolutely no relation to 0.7% of guns used in crimes? Umm - purchase of a gun by a felon IS a crime, chief.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #175 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Uh, you do realize that 46% of gun show investigations has absolutely no relation to 0.7% of guns used in crimes? Umm - purchase of a gun by a felon IS a crime, chief. In fact, a convicted felon is breaking the law merely by holding any firearm or even a single live round of ammunition...even a .22 rimfire cartridge. I'm probably jumping into the fire by posting, but here goes. The so-called "gunshow loophole" is not limited just to gunshows or linked to them except by way of private sellers. Anti-gunners want gunshows stopped, so instead of calling it a "private sale" loophole, which it is, they call it a "gunshow" loophole. Get gunshows banned first, then go after private sales. All without addressing the underlying problem. Private sellers should have the option of either running a FREE (to be provided by the Feds) background check on a prospective buyer or not. If he opts to run a check, and the buyer is cleared, then the seller should be relieved of all responsibility for what happens after that. If the seller chooses NOT to run a check, then he/she should be held at least partially responsible for anything that happens IF the buyer would have been turned away by a normal check.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
