kallend 2,147
kallend 2,147
QuoteQuoteIt is illegal to sell to someone whom you know is prohibited by law from owning firearms.
I would be surprised if ANY state doesn't have laws prohibiting it - I know Texas does.
And how, exactly, does the State of Texas enforce that law? Does it REQUIRE a NICS check?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,147
QuoteQuoteJohn, in the State of Washington you must be a dues paying member of the gun show organization to actually purchase a firearm at the shows. To become a member, you must pass the same background check as required to purchase a handgun. You are then issued a photo ID card that has to be presented when you purchase any firearm, even a rifle or shotgun. There is no loophole in Washington gun shows.Quote
Are you trying to claim that the gun lobby supports closing the loophole that allows private purchases at, for example, gunshows to go without a NICS check? Last time I checked it was illegal to sell a gun to a felon, but no checking is required thanks to opposition by the gun lobby.
In Iowa you must show a permit to purchase a handgun to buy privatley
No loop hole here either
So the felons go to Minnesota?
The gun lobby is currently OPPOSING an effort to require NICS checks for private sales at gunshows in MN.
Source: www.startribune.com/politics/state/86291022.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUdcOy_nc:DKUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
Just as I claimed.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,147
QuoteQuoteJohn, in the State of Washington you must be a dues paying member of the gun show organization to actually purchase a firearm at the shows. To become a member, you must pass the same background check as required to purchase a handgun. You are then issued a photo ID card that has to be presented when you purchase any firearm, even a rifle or shotgun. There is no loophole in Washington gun shows.Quote
Are you trying to claim that the gun lobby supports closing the loophole that allows private purchases at, for example, gunshows to go without a NICS check? Last time I checked it was illegal to sell a gun to a felon, but no checking is required thanks to opposition by the gun lobby.
Oh shush..... are you trying to confuse the poor folk who think there are all these loopholes out there for criminals to get guns?
www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/newsroom/newsdetail.html?key=3252&svr=http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu&table=published
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rhaig 0
I'm curious to see what happens with the Alaska and Montana bills similar to TX HB 1863 (aka the "made in Texas" guns bill)
It's out of house committee, but hasn't been voted on yet.
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=HB1863
The Montana bill is discussed here http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-05-10/news/17200004_1_gun-control-montana-big-sky-state
The Alaska law here:
http://www.housemajority.org/item.php?id=item20090416-255
It's out of house committee, but hasn't been voted on yet.
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=HB1863
The Montana bill is discussed here http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-05-10/news/17200004_1_gun-control-montana-big-sky-state
The Alaska law here:
http://www.housemajority.org/item.php?id=item20090416-255
--
Rob
Rob
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteQuoteJohn, in the State of Washington you must be a dues paying member of the gun show organization to actually purchase a firearm at the shows. To become a member, you must pass the same background check as required to purchase a handgun. You are then issued a photo ID card that has to be presented when you purchase any firearm, even a rifle or shotgun. There is no loophole in Washington gun shows.Quote
Are you trying to claim that the gun lobby supports closing the loophole that allows private purchases at, for example, gunshows to go without a NICS check? Last time I checked it was illegal to sell a gun to a felon, but no checking is required thanks to opposition by the gun lobby.
Oh shush..... are you trying to confuse the poor folk who think there are all these loopholes out there for criminals to get guns?
www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/newsroom/newsdetail.html?key=3252&svr=http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu&table=published
Ok so you are taking a decidely anti gun groups word rather than getting first hand information?? I saw so many falacies in that thing that I was amazed.
Been to a gun show and actually tried to buy a weapon???
Come on John.. I go to them at least every other month and have seen none of the things they are talking about on there. What financial incentive do the people making the report have.
The one thing I did see in there that they spoke of in the article is that in many places parts or a .50 cal rifle are legal unlike in some other places. I have seen those for sale. If someone wants to subject themselves to the recoil of those things when target shooting.. more power( literally) to them.
As skeptical as you are about other topics... I do wish you viewed that report with the same amount of skepticism.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
JohnMitchell 16
This report talked about "assault weapons, .50 caliber rifles and the parts needed to make untraceable guns."Quotewww.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/newsroom/newsdetail.html?key=3252&svr=http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu&table=published[/url]
1-Assault weapons- semi automatic rifle with a few cosmetic features that make it look militaristic? Perfectly legal in most places.
If you're talking about a fully automatic rifle, that's a highly controlled Class II firearm, and the BATFE would love to make some arrests for that, if in fact that was going on. So where's all the arrests for this "illegal" activitiy.
2-.50 Caliber rifles? Legal where I live. What's the problem? I'd love to have one but I currently have 3 kids in college and those fifty cals are awfully expensive.
3- Untraceable guns? Once again, the BATFE would have a field day making arrests of anyone selling receivers, the legal starting point of any firearm, that have no serial numbers.
All those illegal purchases? How did the researchers know they were illegal. Was the buyer a felon, a drug user, or insane? If so, why weren't the police called?
All those straw man purchases reported? Did they follow buyers around to watch the exchange, or was it the researchers themselves that bought firearms, and then handed them off? I really would like to know. I have only been to a dozen gunshows or so, but I know I can't, even with my concealed pistol license, take any firearm into the show area, for sale or not, without having a valid membership. To get that membership requires the same extensive background check as any gun purchase.
UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program ? Does the UC stand for Unconditionally Communist?
I can understand the burning desire to eliminate violent crime. I abhor it as much as anyone. I just want everyone to remember my guns are not causing your violent crime, and I refuse to give up my inherent right to self defense.
kallend 2,147
Quote
I can understand the burning desire to eliminate violent crime. I abhor it as much as anyone. I just want everyone to remember my guns are not causing your violent crime, and I refuse to give up my inherent right to self defense.
No-one here is asking you to.
However, it is patently obvious to anyone not wearing blinders that felons and the mentally deranged can obtain guns too easily because of loopholes in the laws that prohibit them from getting guns. If every state did what you say Washington has done, that would be a good start. However, all a felon has to do is go to a gun show in VA, MN, (or many others) where NO checking is done on sales by unlicensed dealers.
If you aren't a felon and don't have a record of mental instability, you have no need to go to another state to buy a gun so it wouldn't affect you at all.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,147
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteJohn, in the State of Washington you must be a dues paying member of the gun show organization to actually purchase a firearm at the shows. To become a member, you must pass the same background check as required to purchase a handgun. You are then issued a photo ID card that has to be presented when you purchase any firearm, even a rifle or shotgun. There is no loophole in Washington gun shows.Quote
Are you trying to claim that the gun lobby supports closing the loophole that allows private purchases at, for example, gunshows to go without a NICS check? Last time I checked it was illegal to sell a gun to a felon, but no checking is required thanks to opposition by the gun lobby.
Oh shush..... are you trying to confuse the poor folk who think there are all these loopholes out there for criminals to get guns?
www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/newsroom/newsdetail.html?key=3252&svr=http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu&table=published
Ok so you are taking a decidely anti gun groups word rather than getting first hand information?? I saw so many falacies in that thing that I was amazed.
Been to a gun show and actually tried to buy a weapon???
Come on John.. I go to them at least every other month and have seen none of the things they are talking about on there. What financial incentive do the people making the report have.
The one thing I did see in there that they spoke of in the article is that in many places parts or a .50 cal rifle are legal unlike in some other places. I have seen those for sale. If someone wants to subject themselves to the recoil of those things when target shooting.. more power( literally) to them.
As skeptical as you are about other topics... I do wish you viewed that report with the same amount of skepticism.![[:/]](//www.dropzone.com/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png "[:/]")
None so blind as those who wear blinders. If you don't like UC Davis, check the BATF report (cite provided previously) on the source of guns used in crimes.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteJohn, in the State of Washington you must be a dues paying member of the gun show organization to actually purchase a firearm at the shows. To become a member, you must pass the same background check as required to purchase a handgun. You are then issued a photo ID card that has to be presented when you purchase any firearm, even a rifle or shotgun. There is no loophole in Washington gun shows.Quote
Are you trying to claim that the gun lobby supports closing the loophole that allows private purchases at, for example, gunshows to go without a NICS check? Last time I checked it was illegal to sell a gun to a felon, but no checking is required thanks to opposition by the gun lobby.
Oh shush..... are you trying to confuse the poor folk who think there are all these loopholes out there for criminals to get guns?
www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/newsroom/newsdetail.html?key=3252&svr=http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu&table=published
Ok so you are taking a decidely anti gun groups word rather than getting first hand information?? I saw so many falacies in that thing that I was amazed.
Been to a gun show and actually tried to buy a weapon???
Come on John.. I go to them at least every other month and have seen none of the things they are talking about on there. What financial incentive do the people making the report have.
The one thing I did see in there that they spoke of in the article is that in many places parts or a .50 cal rifle are legal unlike in some other places. I have seen those for sale. If someone wants to subject themselves to the recoil of those things when target shooting.. more power( literally) to them.
As skeptical as you are about other topics... I do wish you viewed that report with the same amount of skepticism.
None so blind as those who wear blinders. If you don't like UC Davis, check the BATF report (cite provided previously) on the source of guns used in crimes.
Speaking of blinders
Got specifics to fix the problem?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,147
The dormouse has been sleeping again.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
Quote
The dormouse has been sleeping again.
You got the bitching down !
How about the/a solution???
Specifics if you dont mind
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Amazon 7
Criminals get guns from other criminals... big surprise huh doc??
kallend 2,147
QuoteCriminals get guns from other criminals... big surprise huh doc??
By definition, yes, and in many states of the union a mechanism that could stop it (or at least make it much more difficult) hasn't been implemented thanks to the efforts of the gun lobby and its supporters.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteCriminals get guns from other criminals... big surprise huh doc??
By definition, yes, and in many states of the union a mechanism that could stop it (or at least make it much more difficult) hasn't been implemented thanks to the efforts of the gun lobby and its supporters.
Bull illegal gun possesion by felons is illegal EVERYWHERE in this country.. its not the gun lobby you should be whining at.. but the donut munchers who are more interested in writing speeding tickets rather than going after criminals.. I mean that would be hard and they might catch some lead in the donut gut.
JohnMitchell 16
John, I would be fine with that. I don't know what many of the other states are doing.QuoteIf every state did what you say Washington has done, that would be a good start. However, all a felon has to do is go to a gun show in VA, MN, (or many others) where NO checking is done on sales by unlicensed dealers.
However, in this state, we have people claiming a "gun show loophole" at our gunshows when there is none. They should beware of crying "Wolf".
kallend 2,147
QuoteQuoteQuoteCriminals get guns from other criminals... big surprise huh doc??
By definition, yes, and in many states of the union a mechanism that could stop it (or at least make it much more difficult) hasn't been implemented thanks to the efforts of the gun lobby and its supporters.
Bull illegal gun possesion by felons is illegal EVERYWHERE in this country..
Yes, I have been making that point over and over and over. But not all states require a NICS check from unlicensed dealers. IF yours does, hooray for WA. But many (more than half) don't, and efforts to make, for example MN do it are being opposed by the gun lobby (cite provided previously).
So I was completely correct in my original statement.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,147
QuoteJohn, I would be fine with that. I don't know what many of the other states are doing.QuoteIf every state did what you say Washington has done, that would be a good start. However, all a felon has to do is go to a gun show in VA, MN, (or many others) where NO checking is done on sales by unlicensed dealers.
However, in this state, we have people claiming a "gun show loophole" at our gunshows when there is none. They should beware of crying "Wolf".
Good for your state, IF that is the case.
Minnesota is a different story altogether: www.startribune.com/politics/state/86291022.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUdcOy_nc:DKUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
Apparently the gun lobby in MN wants felons and nutcases have an easy route to buy guns. The same is true in VA (The VA senate killed a bill to close the loophole after pressure by the gun lobby) and TX (big fuss because Austin is attempting to require a NICS check for all gunshow sales and the gun lobby objects).
According to the USDoJ, fully half the crime guns in Washington DC were bought in Virginia.
In 2000, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) published the "Following the Gun" report. The ATF analyzed more 1,530 trafficking investigations over a two-and-a-half-year period and found gun shows to be the second leading source of illegally diverted guns in the nation (behind only corrupt federally licensed dealers). These investigations involved a total of 84,128 firearms that had been diverted from legal to illegal commerce. All told, the report identified more than 26,000 firearms that had been illegally trafficked through gun shows in 212 separate investigations. The report stated that: "A prior review of ATF gun show investigations shows that prohibited persons, such as convicted felons and juveniles, do personally buy firearms at gun shows and gun shows are sources of firearms that are trafficked to such prohibited persons. The gun show review found that firearms were diverted at and through gun shows by straw purchasers, unregulated private sellers, and licensed dealers. Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Firearms that were illegally diverted at or through gun shows were recovered in subsequent crimes, including homicide and robbery, in more than a third of the gun show investigations."
Fewer than half of the states (much fewer) have passed laws closing the loophole.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteSo I was completely correct in my original statement.
John, when you say as much nothing as you do, people just stop caring if you think you're right.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
mnealtx 0
QuoteYep, I didn't say anything about the NRA, that was your projection. You should pay more attention to what people write and stop inventing strawmen.
Tapdancing. Regardless, please show where they're blocking enforcement.
QuoteYou do realize that every post you make parroting the gun lobby's denial that there is a problem enforcing laws that prohibit gun sales to felons simply confirms my original statement.
I realize that every post I make confirms the fact that you're continually whining about a law that doesn't exist.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteI do the same thing when I sell privately, although our state law doesn't require it. It is illegal to sell to someone whom you know is prohibited by law from owning firearms.Quote
In Iowa you must show a permit to purchase a handgun to buy privatley
QED.
OOOOH!! THERE'S an existing law!! Maybe you can show how the gun lobby is forcing private sellers to make sales to people they know are criminals.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt is illegal to sell to someone whom you know is prohibited by law from owning firearms.
I would be surprised if ANY state doesn't have laws prohibiting it - I know Texas does.
And how, exactly, does the State of Texas enforce that law? Does it REQUIRE a NICS check?
Nope - a private seller is not a dealer, something you still can't grasp.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
QuoteHowever, all a felon has to do is go to a gun show in VA, MN, (or many others) where NO checking is done on sales by unlicensed dealers.
You're either a licensed dealer or a private seller - there *IS* no such thing as an 'unlicensed dealer'.
That may be where your continuing confusion on the matter comes from.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Quote
However, it is patently obvious to anyone not wearing blinders that felons and the mentally deranged can obtain guns too easily because of loopholes in the laws that prohibit them from getting guns. If every state did what you say Washington has done, that would be a good start. However, all a felon has to do is go to a gun show in VA, MN, (or many others) where NO checking is done on sales by unlicensed dealers.
Blinders is thinking that 0.7% is the major source of guns for criminals.
"All they have to do is drive to the next state."
That's pretty damn far for most Californians.
QED.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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