The President Still Does Not Get It

[Gawain 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

President Obama offered up his own detailed plan on health care today. Basically a watered down version of the Senate bill.

It's still $1Tr, though his office claims it doesn't add to the deficit.

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Estimated to cost about $1 trillion over 10 years, Obama's plan would be paid for by a mix of Medicare cuts, tax increases and new fees on health care industries.

Medicare cuts.
Tax Increases.
Fees on health care industries (read: extra taxes on medical appliances, equipment, et al).

President Obama, you are an articulate politician. Clearly, you're not afraid to confront hot issues in the political arena. However, in the wake of your State of the Union address, citing the need to make the economy your number one priority, you have already left that by the way-side.

Congress will not touch your bill in an election year. The House barely passed a more stringent bill last year, with only two votes to spare. Now, the democrats in the House may not have that edge in light of a few that are not there to serve anymore. The Senate might bend, but those lines were drawn on the last vote, and you don't have the super-majority anymore. You still cannot see what has happened in your backyard of Virginia, and northeastern bastions of New Jersey and Massachusetts.

Sir, whatever you pursue, placing the economic well being anywhere other than daily-in-your-face priority is political capital you do not have. The $1Tr plan is money you do not have. The year of 2010 is a year you do not have for this issue.

Sir, Congress will balk. If you truly want to begin reforms, then you must do so in a manner that Congress would digest without the toxic fanfare this issue has been corroded by. You must break the reforms into separate components. If it is done right, real reform would not be in place until after a second term for your office (though I don't think you'll have that either given the current climate).

Bear in mind, I'm not blasting Congress for balking. If anything, at this time, the less they get done, the better.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jdthomas 0]

so far nothing seems to be going through either house, i would guess that this one won't fly either!
I am self insured, I have bcbs but don't have a job right now and can't find one either.. cash is running lower by the day but I still don't want gov't run health care.. let me worry about that please. if gov't want's to do anything for me it would be to help stop shipping job's overseas and try like hell to keep jobs here in the states for a change!

www.greenboxphotography.com

[airdvr 210]

After Scott Brown HC reform is dead for now. Why he won't let it go is a quandry. Got to believe every Dem member of congress who's up for re-election in November cringes every time he does CPR on this issue.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[D22369 0]

I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse, either he is really stupid (which I doubt) or someone has thier hand up his ass making him continue pushing for this.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Royd 0]

It's the hill, he chooses to die on.

[Lucky... 0]

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After Scott Brown HC reform is dead for now. Why he won't let it go is a quandry. Got to believe every Dem member of congress who's up for re-election in November cringes every time he does CPR on this issue.

Nope, 2 choices:

- Put the bill(s) thru the senate and let the R's show their colors and fillibuster, even tho they claim it's dirty, or...

- Reconcilliation and do like Bush's sunsetting tax cuts, didn't hurt der fuhrer in chief, did it? And he even got in the Overtime Bill to revoke some OT from workers and that didn't even hurt him.

[idrankwhat 0]

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I am self insured, I have bcbs but don't have a job right now and can't find one either.. cash is running lower by the day but I still don't want gov't run health care..

Would you be interested in having the chance to compare your current bcbs plan with a government run option?

[Lucky... 0]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse, either he is really stupid (which I doubt) or someone has thier hand up his ass making him continue pushing for this.

Roy

What were you saying as Bush pushed teh Overtime Bill thru congress time after time....it took him 3 years of pushing before he succeeded.

OTOH if he quits he will have failed, so even if, in your position HC reform is a bad thing, losing a HUGE battle can be politically worse. I just think the Dems pussying out again would be the worst thing they can do, regardless of the issue.

[Lucky... 0]

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It's the hill, he chooses to die on.

And how many of teh good guys were calling GWB a 1-termer from early 01 until Nov 04? And think, trudbag got fewer popular votes than Gore in an election frought with typical Republican corruption....in 04 he won more PV's. So keep your excitement down, if the youngens show up, count on another landslide, my friends.

[idrankwhat 0]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

[TrophyHusband 0]

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I just think the Dems pussying out again would be the worst thing they can do, regardless of the issue.

on the other hand, they could save face, win politically, and make improvements to our healthcare system. all they have to do is start over and break things down into bite sized chunks instead of one huge bill that the majority of the public is against. they could identify maybe 5 to 7 of the largest reasons health care is so expensive and work on each one individually, as in only one issue per bill.

the thing is, most people on both sides of the current debate agree that there needs to be reform. wiping the slate clean, breaking it down, and attacking each problem individually makes it much more likely that progress will be made.

for example, issues like tort reform and opening up competition across state lines, each with their own bill, could continue to be debated, while at the same time, a compromise could be reached on the issue of pre-existing conditions.

in my opinion, a major change in approach to this is about the only thing that can save the dems from big losses in november.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[justinb138 0]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

And I'm sick and tired of the fed & state govts pocketing 40% of my income.

[Lucky... 0]

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I just think the Dems pussying out again would be the worst thing they can do, regardless of the issue.

on the other hand, they could save face, win politically, and make improvements to our healthcare system. all they have to do is start over and break things down into bite sized chunks instead of one huge bill that the majority of the public is against. they could identify maybe 5 to 7 of the largest reasons health care is so expensive and work on each one individually, as in only one issue per bill.

the thing is, most people on both sides of the current debate agree that there needs to be reform. wiping the slate clean, breaking it down, and attacking each problem individually makes it much more likely that progress will be made.

for example, issues like tort reform and opening up competition across state lines, each with their own bill, could continue to be debated, while at the same time, a compromise could be reached on the issue of pre-existing conditions.

in my opinion, a major change in approach to this is about the only thing that can save the dems from big losses in november.

The partisan problem is that the R's want a minor tune-up, the D's want overhaul. It's dellusional to think opening up the borders for price shopping will do anything and compromise of pre-existers? You gotta be fucking me here; what is a compromise?

>>>>>>>>>in my opinion, a major change in approach to this is about the only thing that can save the dems from big losses in november.

You're forgetting who elected him; the young turnout. You have to find a way to dismay those who turned out to vote him in, I don't see that yet. I do realize you're talking mid-term, but there is a correlation. So what if there are losses in 2010, it would be vastly unusual if the Deems didn't lose seats. We have to trade our huge majoroty for real change and even if passing HC means that, so be it. Winning the contest and getting no prize is like losing the contest, so fuck the trophy, I want the prize, as in real change.

[Lucky... 0]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

And I'm sick and tired of the fed & state govts pocketing 40% of my income.

But you're not sikc of the wars, the roads, the schools, etc, etc, etc.... go live in teh woods and avoid taxes.

[idrankwhat 0]

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And I'm sick and tired of the fed & state govts pocketing 40% of my income.

Two quick thought's, because I have kids in the tub and can't pursue further this evening.

1) You probably don't PAY 40% in taxes, although that may be your rate. If you do pay 40% then $50 towards a copy of turbo-tax would be money well spent (although you could probably get the IRS to come up with a lower figure for you for free....well, not "free". We paid for it.)

2) I would not be surprised if your insurance company has eaten more of your income/potential income than our government has.

[Lucky... 0]

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I would not be surprised if your insurance company has eaten more of your income/potential income than our government has.

And if you use it, you get penalized, unlike gov svs that just keep comingg as you remain qualifed and a need exists.

[rushmc 23]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

You did see the wall street report showing HC companies profits are lower than companies of the same size on average, correct?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

You did see the wall street report showing HC companies profits are lower than companies of the same size on average, correct?

Yet the ins cos want to lock up HC.....hmmmmm. Must not be that bad.

[rushmc 23]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

You did see the wall street report showing HC companies profits are lower than companies of the same size on average, correct?

Yet the ins cos want to lock up HC.....hmmmmm. Must not be that bad.

Who said it was bad?

But saying the insurance companies are making obscene profits is a lie

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

You did see the wall street report showing HC companies profits are lower than companies of the same size on average, correct?

Yet the ins cos want to lock up HC.....hmmmmm. Must not be that bad.

Who said it was bad?

But saying the insurance companies are making obscene profits is a lie

Profits are up and down, but they are still measured:

A) In millions / 100's of millions

B) As profits and not losses.

I didn't post some union rag or some lefty rag, please keep your right-leaning crap off of here, there's plenty of static out there with abstract and skewed numbers.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/insurance-co-profits-good-but-not-breaking-records/

[idrankwhat 0]

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You did see the wall street report showing HC companies profits are lower than companies of the same size on average, correct?

No. But I'd be interested to read it. However I know that "profits" are taxed so I expect the book keepers to keep them as low as possible by as many means as the tax code and as many inefficient operation models as are allowed. Maybe if the monopoly enabled HC providers can hire a few more administrators they will be "unprofitable" enough to get a taxpayer bailout.

Our HC system sucks due to government enabled inefficiency. The only way to fix it is for government to enable the efficiency that it is willfully denying.

Our modern health care system is what you get when you allow capitalism to go unchecked.
I love capitalism.
But untempered capitalism will be the death of this country.

[rushmc 23]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

You did see the wall street report showing HC companies profits are lower than companies of the same size on average, correct?

Yet the ins cos want to lock up HC.....hmmmmm. Must not be that bad.

Who said it was bad?

But saying the insurance companies are making obscene profits is a lie

Profits are up and down, but they are still measured:

A) In millions / 100's of millions

B) As profits and not losses.

I didn't post some union rag or some lefty rag, please keep your right-leaning crap off of here, there's plenty of static out there with abstract and skewed numbers.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/insurance-co-profits-good-but-not-breaking-records/

Your post dont mean a damned thing my friend

Keep my right wing crap off of here??



Your post backs my point
No record breaking profits at all
Big money? Hell yes but they risk big money to get it so it is all a mater of proportion

You anti business left wing progressive radicals are fun to tweak cause you make it so easy


OOooooooohhhhhhhhhh, evil profit

Stop it dude
My tummy hurts from laughing at you so much

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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You did see the wall street report showing HC companies profits are lower than companies of the same size on average, correct?

No. But I'd be interested to read it. However I know that "profits" are taxed so I expect the book keepers to keep them as low as possible by as many means as the tax code and as many inefficient operation models as are allowed. Maybe if the monopoly enabled HC providers can hire a few more administrators they will be "unprofitable" enough to get a taxpayer bailout.

Our HC system sucks due to government enabled inefficiency. The only way to fix it is for government to enable the efficiency that it is willfully denying.

Our modern health care system is what you get when you allow capitalism to go unchecked.
I love capitalism.
But untempered capitalism will be the death of this country.

What is killing this country is not untempered capitalism
Capitalism is being killed and that is taking this country with it

The Dems and the R's are getting what they want. Us pointing fingers back and forth. Truth is, they are both going in the same direction, they just have different road maps. But as long as they got us fighting, nobody notices them. All they need do is keep creating the evil corp enemy and they got our attention

Corps and profit are not evil. Can be, but generally speaking they are not. Big gov can not say the same

Oh Lucky boy is the prime example here along with dreamweaver

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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I cant think of a reason to keep beating this dead horse,

I can. I for one am sick and tired of Anthem pocketing my raises, and my future raises.

You did see the wall street report showing HC companies profits are lower than companies of the same size on average, correct?

Yet the ins cos want to lock up HC.....hmmmmm. Must not be that bad.

Who said it was bad?

But saying the insurance companies are making obscene profits is a lie

Profits are up and down, but they are still measured:

A) In millions / 100's of millions

B) As profits and not losses.

I didn't post some union rag or some lefty rag, please keep your right-leaning crap off of here, there's plenty of static out there with abstract and skewed numbers.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/insurance-co-profits-good-but-not-breaking-records/

Your post dont mean a damned thing my friend

Keep my right wing crap off of here??



Your post backs my point
No record breaking profits at all
Big money? Hell yes but they risk big money to get it so it is all a mater of proportion

You anti business left wing progressive radicals are fun to tweak cause you make it so easy


OOooooooohhhhhhhhhh, evil profit

Stop it dude
My tummy hurts from laughing at you so much

-- You can post all the emoticons you want, where did I say they were making record-breaking profits?

-- In a climate where usually strong busnesses are going tits-up by the day, to even turn a profit at all, let alone in the millions is a rare bird, yet you call that normal and think that they are not getting all the breaks. Right now most industries consider the health business to be very stable when many industries are trying to weather the storm, the HC industry measures their profits in +++millions / +++100's of millions.

-- "Your post dont mean a damned thing my friend" = that speaks volumes

-- "Keep my right wing crap off of here??"

Yes, RW data that is skewed or otherwise abstract. I posted a neutral site on purpose, with all the bias sites I had to weed-thru.

-- "Your post backs my point No record breaking profits at all"

Where did I say they were record-breaking in this thread? You once again dishonestly put words in my mouth and then celebrate. Try the foreign concept of honesty.

-- Big money? Hell yes but they risk big money to get it so it is all a mater of proportion

Gee, I don't see a lot of HC businesses going tits up like the auto business, banking business, mortgage business, etc. Where is the risk? Just don;t see it.

-- You anti business left wing progressive radicals are fun to tweak cause you make it so easy

I want balance, you want corporate fascim.

[Lucky... 0]

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Capitalism is being killed and that is taking this country with it

Capitalism = the biggest debtor

Communism = the biggest creditor

Capitalism has been a dead ideology as of a long time ago, I'd say Reagan put the final sword in it. Of course a grotesque military was really the death blow, but if Capitalism is so great it should have been able to carry that burden.

With all that said, a quasi-Capitalism / quasi-Socialism government with a reasonable military is the best, most successful form of government right now that extends the most benefot to all people. Capitalism teh way teh US does it is just done, no one wants to copy our model.