Unarmed versus Armed Victims

[georgerussia 0]

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I bet you're disappointed the round missed.

And - as usual - you're wrong.
I hope you shoot better than you bet.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Amazon 7]

Do you really think if you make it impossible to own guns legally that you will be safer?

In places where they have already done that.... the criminals still have guns.. and they use them no matter whatt the penalties are

[fasted3 0]

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overall it is a positive influence on society

This is your opinion, shared by many. You present a well reasoned argument for gun freedom. For you the scales are heavily tilted in one direction, and the anecdotal evidence like this story support your beliefs.
I think you tend to ignore negative anecdotes, like gun owners shooting the wrong person, or themselves, which are just as common, if not more so.
I hate to think of the life I would live after doing that, or having the thing go off and kill a family member. Yeah all you experts out there would never allow a gun to just go off. Never mind.
I've had friends that overindulged in alcohol a time or two, and have a few good anecdotes myself. Stuff I was pretty close to.
John: 45 automatic in his back pocket. Shot his wallet off his ass. Just a scratch.
Mark: This one was bad. Killed girlfriend, her other boyfriend and himself. Drunk.
Another John: He was the other boyfriend. Not the same incident, but the same result. 3 dead.
Forget his name: 2 MP's at a post I was at, playing quick draw with 45's, One shot in heart.
Not to mention quite a few near misses and stupid shit, like the time a tequila bottle in my living room got blasted with a well placed .38 - Guilty of being empty. The killer escaped before my wife got her hands on him... lucky for him!
So I see the other side quite clearly. Less guns would probably be better overall. The scales are pretty even for me as to just how good they are.
Having said that, I don't want to ban guns. Anecdotes like the one posted here make it worthwhile to let the good guys have guns, in my mind. I feel sad for the collateral damage though, and can not ignore it. Some control is called for.
So JohnRich, what do you think of the idea of a gun license program like this: Get training and prove competence; if you want to own a gun, get a license. Bad guys can't get one. Stupid guys can lose them. Get caught with a gun and you don't have a license, get in trouble. See the point? Not the gun, the individual.

But what do I know?

[georgerussia 0]

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Do you really think if you make it impossible to own guns legally that you will be safer?

Yes. The logic here is that myself I do not own a gun because I do not need it. Therefore my safety level will not drop if gun ownership is made impossible. At the same level at least some criminals, and most (if not all) loonies won't be able to get the gun. So as the net result I would be safer.

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In places where they have already done that.... the criminals still have guns.. and they use them no matter whatt the penalties are

There is significantly less gun crimes, especially those committed by idiots. Take as example a drive-through shooting. Consider a situation: a person walks down a street, a car with windows rolled down approaches him, slows down, someone shots him, and then the car leaves. I have no idea how one would protect himself from this kind of crime by just carrying a gun (I guess it is impossible) - and this kind of crime is pretty much non-existent in Europe.

It is also pretty rare to hear about large gun massacre in national news in Europe. Here in U.S. it is not really news - more like a kind of something happening once a month or so that nobody really cares about (unless the shooter was Muslim).

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Amazon 7]

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Do you really think if you make it impossible to own guns legally that you will be safer?

Yes. The logic here is that myself I do not own a gun because I do not need it. Therefore my safety level will not drop if gun ownership is made impossible. At the same level at least some criminals, and most (if not all) loonies won't be able to get the gun. So as the net result I would be safer.

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In places where they have already done that.... the criminals still have guns.. and they use them no matter whatt the penalties are

There is significantly less gun crimes, especially those committed by idiots. Take as example a drive-through shooting. Consider a situation: a person walks down a street, a car with windows rolled down approaches him, slows down, someone shots him, and then the car leaves. I have no idea how one would protect himself from this kind of crime by just carrying a gun (I guess it is impossible) - and this kind of crime is pretty much non-existent in Europe.

It is also pretty rare to hear about large gun massacre in national news in Europe. Here in U.S. it is not really news - more like a kind of something happening once a month or so that nobody really cares about (unless the shooter was Muslim).

Hey I fully support your right to be an unarmed victim at the time and choosing of some low life gang banger needing to get his chops with the gang. Please do not expect me to kiss my ass goodby at the whim of some low life.

I just do not get that mentality. I guess the brainwashing in the former Soviet Union really was pretty good after all.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I just do not get that mentality. I guess the brainwashing in the former Soviet Union really was pretty good after all.

So good he continues to deny the extent of murder that takes place there. Funny shit, though not nearly as funny as his denial tonight that he's all for confiscation. (guess that 5k reward concept was a dream we all had)

[Amazon 7]

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I just do not get that mentality. I guess the brainwashing in the former Soviet Union really was pretty good after all.

So good he continues to deny the extent of murder that takes place there. Funny shit, though not nearly as funny as his denial tonight that he's all for confiscation. (guess that 5k reward concept was a dream we all had)

I just do not put blind faith in my local coffee swilling, donut eating, but avid revenue generating "officers" of the law that MIGHT show up in an hour for a 911 call.

Contray to popular fantasies that most people have, they dont do a very good job of serving or protecting..

[mnealtx 0]

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We can see it really well with how those people armed for self-defense brought the violent crime rate down to zero in Texas, and especially in Houston.

And we see how the gun bans in such unarmed paradises as Washington DC and Chicago and NYC brought the violent crime rate down to zero.... oh wait.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,114]

>And we see how the gun bans in such unarmed paradises as Washington DC . . .

You think DC is unarmed? Odd.

[georgerussia 0]

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So good he continues to deny the extent of murder that takes place there.

You're trying to justify your screwup with murder rate comparisons?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[fasted3 0]

In my personal life, outside of war, I don't know anybody that has used a gun for anything good, but have known personally several people killed or involved in gun killings.
Be honest, have you known of gun incidents gone bad in your life? What is the ratio of 'ritchous' kills to others, not so good? I ask everybody, not to ban guns, but just to challange the notion that they are overwhelmingly positive to scociety.
Also, how do you feel about licensing gun owners?

But what do I know?

[mnealtx 0]

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Common sense says that mentally unstable people like Cho shouldn't have guns. No "future crime machine" needed.

So, absent you inventing some future cime machine, just HOW do you propose to find out who's going to go 'round the bend' years in the future and prevent them from buying a gun?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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>And we see how the gun bans in such unarmed paradises as Washington DC . . .

You think DC is unarmed? Odd.

Heller.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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In my personal life, outside of war, I don't know anybody that has used a gun for anything good, but have known personally several people killed or involved in gun killings.
Be honest, have you known of gun incidents gone bad in your life? What is the ratio of 'ritchous' kills to others, not so good? I ask everybody, not to ban guns, but just to challange the notion that they are overwhelmingly positive to scociety.
Also, how do you feel about licensing gun owners?

DOJ studies show where guns are used to prevent hundreds of thousands of crimes a year - I'd call that a positive effect.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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I just do not get that mentality. I guess the brainwashing in the former Soviet Union really was pretty good after all.

Isn't it funny that basically whole Europe and Canada also got "brainwashed" by a Soviet Union? And of course UK - even the shadow of Soviet Union seems to be extremely powerful. It even reached to SF in 2005, forcing those 57% of voters to approve the Prop. H - the influence of those KGB spies seems to be tremendous.

But the truth is that in reality I'm probably more free than you - because I do not need a gun to feel safe.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[fasted3 0]

Yes, not disagreeing with that. I'm sure you'll agree that a lot of screw ups happen too? I was asking about on a personal level. Have you known people that shot muggers or something. How about shooting accidents? I related a few that I know about from real life. As the OP shooting indicates they certainly work out well in some cases. If just happens that I haven't known anybody to ever have a gun when they might have used it properly. I've never needed one to save me. Like I said, I'm not trying to take anybody's guns away, but am laying it on the table that they do cause a lot of grief, and perhaps some form of control might be in order.

But what do I know?

[Amazon 7]

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In my personal life, outside of war, I don't know anybody that has used a gun for anything good, but have known personally several people killed or involved in gun killings.
Be honest, have you known of gun incidents gone bad in your life? What is the ratio of 'ritchous' kills to others, not so good? I ask everybody, not to ban guns, but just to challange the notion that they are overwhelmingly positive to scociety.
Also, how do you feel about licensing gun owners?

I have lost several good friends who exited life with their own fingers on the trigger. I lost another very close to me to war. I know a couple others who are alive because they had the fortitude and the training to protect their life from others who would have killed them on our oh so safe streets. We live in a society that is what it is... and I do carry on a daily basis. I do not trust my life to others to protect me. I also go to the range every week. I have only had to use my weapon once as a counter to a nutso neighbor who was threatening and brandishing.
I started shooting when I was 7 years old and I am a VERY good shot with rifle. pistol and shotgun, I was trained to never point a weapon at someone unless I intended to kill them. So far so good I have not had to do that. Unlike some I do think that to carry , people should be lisenced and trained, because pulling that trigger places a huge responsibility on the person. They need to understand the ramifications legal and moral.That said, I do not believe that if the weaponsw are used for sporting or for home defense.... the governemt needs to stay the hell out of peoples homes.....PERIOD.

[Amazon 7]

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I just do not get that mentality. I guess the brainwashing in the former Soviet Union really was pretty good after all.

Isn't it funny that basically whole Europe and Canada also got "brainwashed" by a Soviet Union? And of course UK - even the shadow of Soviet Union seems to be extremely powerful. It even reached to SF in 2005, forcing those 57% of voters to approve the Prop. H - the influence of those KGB spies seems to be tremendous.

But the truth is that in reality I'm probably more free than you - because I do not need a gun to feel safe.

Oh yes they are SOOOO safe.. just like you.. until that safety is erased very quickly and harshly by circumstances you did not see coming with your head in the sand HOPING nothing bad happens to you.

I am glad you believe your life is so safe.... its a fantasy in this society.. but just like those who beielve they are invincible in skydiving and nothing could EVER happen to them.....all of a sudden.. shit happens.

I prefer to train very hard to prevent shit from happening... rather than hoping for the best.

[fasted3 0]

I'm all for the govt. keeping out of my house for sure. I would extend the license requirement to all gun owners, however. If an incident arose where a gun was misused, say little Jimmy gets ahold of daddy's gun and pops a few caps. First, I think daddy should show a license to have that, (or any,) gun, or face a fine; next, I think that it should be taken away from him.
Want to own a gun, fine, in fact I'm glad there are folks like you among us, packing. When a criminal with a gun gets shot, I don't shed any tears about it.
I can shoot, and was in the army. I don't need guns around so far, and hope it stays that way.

But what do I know?

[Amazon 7]

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I'm all for the govt. keeping out of my house for sure. I would extend the license requirement to all gun owners, however. If an incident arose where a gun was misused, say little Jimmy gets ahold of daddy's gun and pops a few caps. First, I think daddy should show a license to have that, (or any,) gun, or face a fine; next, I think that it should be taken away from him.
Want to own a gun, fine, in fact I'm glad there are folks like you among us, packing. When a criminal with a gun gets shot, I don't shed any tears about it.
I can shoot, and was in the army. I don't need guns around so far, and hope it stays that way.

SO you seem to be good with registration of all weapons... so that the government knows just where to come when marshal law is declared after the next terrorist attack on the country and we finally fall off the very short fence we are sitting on for tipping over into a police state.... sorry. but no thanks.

[mnealtx 0]

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I'm all for the govt. keeping out of my house for sure. I would extend the license requirement to all gun owners, however. If an incident arose where a gun was misused, say little Jimmy gets ahold of daddy's gun and pops a few caps. First, I think daddy should show a license to have that, (or any,) gun, or face a fine; next, I think that it should be taken away from him.

They already have that - you have to fill out the 4473 whenever you buy a gun, so what MORE use does some 'license' do?

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Want to own a gun, fine, in fact I'm glad there are folks like you among us, packing. When a criminal with a gun gets shot, I don't shed any tears about it.
I can shoot, and was in the army. I don't need guns around so far, and hope it stays that way.

I hope it stays that way for you, too.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[fasted3 0]

No. I'm talking about owners. What guns they may or may not have is their own business. I understand the registering all guns problem and am not going there - just requiring an individual to have a license if they are going to own a gun. I wouldn't make it that hard or expensive to get one, but if somebody screwed up it could be revoked.

But what do I know?

[Amazon 7]

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No. I'm talking about owners. What guns they may or may not have is their own business. I understand the registering all guns problem and am not going there - just requiring an individual to have a license if they are going to own a gun. I wouldn't make it that hard or expensive to get one, but if somebody screwed up it could be revoked.

Most states already do.. its called a hunting license..

But on a ticket to own.. no we will have to agree to disagree. What a family keeps in thier home is NO ONEs business.. especially any little empire building little Napoleans.

I would make it harder for those who want to carry though.. In this state its far too easy.. I think proficiency with the chosen weapon should be mandatory.. and I think a few hours on the legal and moral aspects should also be required.

[fasted3 0]

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They already have that - you have to fill out the 4473 whenever you buy a gun, so what MORE use does some 'license' do?

Hopefully, simplify things. Cop sees somebody with a gun: "You got a license to own a gun?"
Yes officer, right here alongside my drivers license.
"Ok, fine"

Cop finds a gun on some punk gangbanger, asks the same thing, "No."
Then he's in trouble.

I submit that the form you mention is really more intrusive, and gives the govt. a better chance of rounding up the guns than a simple owner's license. Anybody that wanted to own or shoot guns could easily get one, howver, they would have to show some needed responsibility get one, by having some instruction, and to keep it, by not screwing up.

But what do I know?

[Skyrad 0]

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So John, where have you been on holiday recently?

Heading out on Thursday to spend nine days canoeing and hiking, on and around the Rio Grande River, in west Texas. Big Bend Ranch State Park, and Big Bend National Park.

And the new law, signed by Obama, allowing gun carry in National Parks goes into effect Feb. 22nd. So I'll no longer have to carry my gun in my car unloaded and out of reach. (Have to keep things on topic here, don't we?)

Attached: Aerial view of the landscape. The river can be hard to see in there, but it runs from the top left corner diagonally downward to the red star on the right, over the small town of Lajitas. The U.S. is above the river, and Mexico below.

I'd like to give christelsabine a long special post.

Looks fantastic, you'll have to post some pictues when you get back. Have a nice time...

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca