Another Nutter with a Gun

[rushmc 23]

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Amazing isnt it. To think, teacher or professors can get away with crap like that

Their police records might be "peer reviewed" before becoming official/permanent

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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You were happy that Cho could easily buy a gun despite all the warning signs?

I notice he didn't reply! pwnd.

or perhaps he went out for the day.

your standard for ownage is pretty weak.

[Amazon 7]

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Same for you

Aww poor wittle Polly

You think you upset me??

If so, you really get off on yourself
or
is it you get yourself off

I am so confused





Hmmm I hadnt thought of that.. do right whiners stroke it while listening to Lush Rimjob????

As far as being confused, yeah we get that....really....we do...... I suppose that is the teachers fault too???

[kallend 2,113]

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Check this out:

" A University of Alabama professor accused of fatally shooting three colleagues at a faculty meeting this week shot her younger brother dead at their home in the Boston suburbs more than 20 years ago, but records of it are missing, police said Saturday.

Amy Bishop shot her brother in the chest in 1986, Braintree police Chief Paul Frazier said at a news conference. She fired at least three shots, hitting her brother once and hitting her bedroom wall, before police took her into custody at gunpoint, he said..."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,585781,00.html

Amazing isnt it. To think, teacher or professors can get away with crap like that

Jealousy will get you nowhere.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Check this out:

" A University of Alabama professor accused of fatally shooting three colleagues at a faculty meeting this week shot her younger brother dead at their home in the Boston suburbs more than 20 years ago, but records of it are missing, police said Saturday.

Amy Bishop shot her brother in the chest in 1986, Braintree police Chief Paul Frazier said at a news conference. She fired at least three shots, hitting her brother once and hitting her bedroom wall, before police took her into custody at gunpoint, he said..."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,585781,00.html

Amazing isnt it. To think, teacher or professors can get away with crap like that

Jealousy will get you nowhere.

Fear would be a bette description. but i know you dont understand

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Same for you

Aww poor wittle Polly

You think you upset me??

If so, you really get off on yourself
or
is it you get yourself off

I am so confused

Hmmm I hadnt thought of that.. do right whiners stroke it while listening to Lush Rimjob????

As far as being confused, yeah we get that....really....we do...... I suppose that is the teachers fault too???

I had no idea you were that kinky sick

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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Same for you

Aww poor wittle Polly

You think you upset me??

If so, you really get off on yourself
or
is it you get yourself off

I am so confused

Hmmm I hadnt thought of that.. do right whiners stroke it while listening to Lush Rimjob????

As far as being confused, yeah we get that....really....we do...... I suppose that is the teachers fault too???

I had no idea you were that kinky sick

Come on... you can tell us all the truth..Does Lush do it for ya..we will keep your little kink a secret for ya

[rushmc 23]

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Same for you

Aww poor wittle Polly

You think you upset me??

If so, you really get off on yourself
or
is it you get yourself off

I am so confused

Hmmm I hadnt thought of that.. do right whiners stroke it while listening to Lush Rimjob????

As far as being confused, yeah we get that....really....we do...... I suppose that is the teachers fault too???

I had no idea you were that kinky sick

Come on... you can tell us all the truth..Does Lush do it for ya..we will keep your little kink a secret for ya

Your fantasies must be dark and scary

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,113]

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Check this out:

" A University of Alabama professor accused of fatally shooting three colleagues at a faculty meeting this week shot her younger brother dead at their home in the Boston suburbs more than 20 years ago, but records of it are missing, police said Saturday.

Amy Bishop shot her brother in the chest in 1986, Braintree police Chief Paul Frazier said at a news conference. She fired at least three shots, hitting her brother once and hitting her bedroom wall, before police took her into custody at gunpoint, he said..."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,585781,00.html

Amazing isnt it. To think, teacher or professors can get away with crap like that

Jealousy will get you nowhere.

Fear would be a bette description. but i know you dont understand

Fascinating phobia. Were you scared by your 2nd grade teacher and never got over it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Check this out:

" A University of Alabama professor accused of fatally shooting three colleagues at a faculty meeting this week shot her younger brother dead at their home in the Boston suburbs more than 20 years ago, but records of it are missing, police said Saturday.

Amy Bishop shot her brother in the chest in 1986, Braintree police Chief Paul Frazier said at a news conference. She fired at least three shots, hitting her brother once and hitting her bedroom wall, before police took her into custody at gunpoint, he said..."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,585781,00.html

Amazing isnt it. To think, teacher or professors can get away with crap like that

Jealousy will get you nowhere.

Fear would be a bette description. but i know you dont understand

Fascinating phobia. Were you scared by your 2nd grade teacher and never got over it?

No
She did not have a gun (that I know of) like you do

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

BBBWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


See the fun thing abount not being an uptight member of the far right whine... is I make my fantasies come true

[rushmc 23]

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BBBWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


See the fun thing abount not being an uptight member of the far right whine... is I make my fantasies come true

I have no doubt that you do

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 379]

So, first you say that these murders make you think about Kallend:

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Doesn't say shit about anything except for thinking about one professor who posts here regularly on the topic.

Then you ask if I am a teacher.
This sounds very much like a thinly-veiled threat. Are you saying you wish something similar would happen to Kallend or myself? If so, have the balls to say it directly.

Oh, and sticking a or a
Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

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So, first you say that these murders make you think about Kallend:

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Doesn't say shit about anything except for thinking about one professor who posts here regularly on the topic.

Then you ask if I am a teacher.
This sounds very much like a thinly-veiled threat. Are you saying you wish something similar would happen to Kallend or myself? If so, have the balls to say it directly.

Oh, and sticking a or a
Don

Threat?

No, I wish no harm to anyone I know or dont know

You really are missing the point
But that is ok

It would be nice for this post to have one that holds its nose huh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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So, first you say that these murders make you think about Kallend:

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Doesn't say shit about anything except for thinking about one professor who posts here regularly on the topic.

Then you ask if I am a teacher.
This sounds very much like a thinly-veiled threat. Are you saying you wish something similar would happen to Kallend or myself? If so, have the balls to say it directly.

Oh, and sticking a or a
Don

Ok,

A teacher, in a debate over tenure , shot and killed three people
Do you think I would be resonable to say "hey, a teacher used a gun to kill people, teachers are dangeous if they own guns cause look at what just happened. I think we should ban all teachers from having or owning guns"

Reasonable?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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Until that point, it looks like allowing disarmed victim zones is a bigger mistake.

I'm not particularly gun-o-phobic, so I don't have a strong disagreement with this comment. I just wonder if allowing concealed carry on campus is the panacea some seem to think. In the incident the OP linked, someone pulled a gun during a faculty meeting and killed/injured several people. Would anything have been different had someone had a concealed weapon? If someone can walk into a Seattle coffee shop and kill four police officers, officers who were well armed and trained to deal with such situations, who can really believe that a bunch of University faculty (or basically any small group of untrained civilians caught off guard) would do significantly better?

Here's another scenario for those who favor opening campuses to firearms to consider. When I teach large undergraduate classes (yes rushmc I am a teacher) I will often be standing at the front of a large auditorium with 100 or more students sitting in crowded seats that rise up as you go to the back of the class. From my perspective, I am at the bottom looking up at a wall of students. Let's say I have just returned an exam, and a student who's stressed out (because his girlfriend just dumped him and now he's failing my course and he's going to lose his scholarship and have to drop out and he's nothing but a failure...typical student issues) decides he's mad at the world and stands up and starts shooting. What am I supposed to do? I have nothing but a plywood podium for cover. Even if I am armed, my target is completely surrounded by other students, so any shot I fire in his direction is pretty much certain to hit somebody. Even if I hit him with the first shot (highly unlikely considering I will not even know anything is going on until he's got off a couple of rounds, so if I'm not dead I'll likely be running for cover), unless I'm using a pellet gun the bullet may well pass through him and still injure/kill people behind him. Will I still be a "hero" if I stop the bad guy, but in the process 4-5 innocent students are killed by "friendly fire"? Will their parents say, "we understand"?

I believe law enforcement officers train extensively for such scenarios, yet dread them because there are no good solutions. What makes people believe untrained civilians will miraculously do much better? We have several LEOs who post here, how would they recommend this situation be handled?

I know that it can (and doubtless will) happen that a determined person can bring a gun onto campus and cause carnage. No doubt in some circumstances a trained armed person could intervene in a useful way (someone might have stopped Cho earlier for example). On the other hand as it is any sighting of a gun on campus is cause to raise an alarm, so trained law enforcement could be alerted if a perpetrator was spotted on his way to the intended target. If it's OK to carry firearms around on campus, no alarm could be raised until the shooting actually starts.

One last note, my understanding is that in Georgia the only requirement for a concealed carry permit is a clear criminal history. Absolutely no training in the law (such as when it is legal to draw/use the weapon) is required, and neither is training in how to respond to situations where there are crowds of innocent people around. (If I'm wrong about the requirements, no doubt someone will correct me). It seems naive to me to expect untrained civilians to respond effectively and save the day, when LEOs have to spend a lot of time training for such scenarios.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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A teacher, in a debate over tenure , shot and killed three people
Do you think I would be resonable to say "hey, a teacher used a gun to kill people, teachers are dangeous if they own guns cause look at what just happened. I think we should ban all teachers from having or owning guns"

Reasonable?

No, moronic. You can't extrapolate from one person to a whole group to which they belong, be it race or religion or profession. People are individuals, they make their own choices, good or bad.

On the other hand it is reasonable to try to exclude guns from certain high stress situations, where people are going to be receiving very bad news. We don't allow guns in the courthouse, because people who are being sent to jail (or their friends and family) are likely to react negatively and do desperate things. A meeting where someone is being told their last appeal of denial of tenure is another situation where guns are an incredibly bad idea.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

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A teacher, in a debate over tenure , shot and killed three people
Do you think I would be resonable to say "hey, a teacher used a gun to kill people, teachers are dangeous if they own guns cause look at what just happened. I think we should ban all teachers from having or owning guns"

Reasonable?

No, moronic. You can't extrapolate from one person to a whole group to which they belong, be it race or religion or profession. People are individuals, they make their own choices, good or bad.



Don

which is EXACTLY the point I am making

Doesnt matter whether the person is a teacher, truck driver or janitor or just in the "people" group.

As for your other observations? Those can be debated on their own merits pro and con. You make some good points

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Here's another scenario for those who favor opening campuses to firearms to consider. When I teach large undergraduate classes (yes rushmc I am a teacher) I will often be standing at the front of a large auditorium with 100 or more students sitting in crowded seats that rise up as you go to the back of the class. From my perspective, I am at the bottom looking up at a wall of students. Let's say I have just returned an exam, and a student who's stressed out (because his girlfriend just dumped him and now he's failing my course and he's going to lose his scholarship and have to drop out and he's nothing but a failure...typical student issues) decides he's mad at the world and stands up and starts shooting. What am I supposed to do? I have nothing but a plywood podium for cover. Even if I am armed, my target is completely surrounded by other students, so any shot I fire in his direction is pretty much certain to hit somebody. Even if I hit him with the first shot (highly unlikely considering I will not even know anything is going on until he's got off a couple of rounds, so if I'm not dead I'll likely be running for cover), unless I'm using a pellet gun the bullet may well pass through him and still injure/kill people behind him. Will I still be a "hero" if I stop the bad guy, but in the process 4-5 innocent students are killed by "friendly fire"? Will their parents say, "we understand"?

Points to consider:
1) only senior (and some juniors) undergraduates are 21 and legally able to obtain a handgun.
2) As already known, nothing prevent a would be murderer from bringing one on campus. If he's willing to commit a capital offfense, that minor felony won't deter one bit.
3) No, you can't just spray the crowd in self defense. Hiding behind the podium or running make more sense. If you can't hit him in a crowd, why do you presume he can hit you?
4) The scenario isn't realistic - he's more likely to get you at office hours, not sit in the lecture hall. Or he's shooting everyone. This isn't the Gaza Strip.
5) most LEOs don't train as much as some of the people here.

The crux of your strawman is that if having a gun doesn't guarantee a good outcome in a contrived situation, it's not useful. The counter to this is without the option to use a gun to respond, the outcome is almost certain to be death to the victim. Why you think that is preferable is the great mystery.

You continue to fear the impulse shooting, but the numerous examples of states switching to CCW permits show this to be of extremely low probability.

[1969912 0]

And more:

"An Alabama professor accused of shooting six colleagues was a suspect in the attempted mail bombing of a Harvard Medical School professor in December of 1993, the Boston Globe reported."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,585854,00.html

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[kallend 2,113]

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And more:

"An Alabama professor accused of shooting six colleagues was a suspect in the attempted mail bombing of a Harvard Medical School professor in December of 1993, the Boston Globe reported."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,585854,00.html

NEWS FLASH: Nutters with guns are dangerous.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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You were happy that Cho could easily buy a gun despite all the warning signs?

You were happy that Cho had a campus FULL of disarmed victims to wreak havoc among?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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If it were not so easy for nutters to get guns, the rest wouldn't have such a great need to defend agains nutters with guns.

Finish creating your future crime machine and we'll finally know who's going to be a nutter months/years down the line. Until then, the rest of us will do battle against the hordes of nutters exploiting your red herring.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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You were happy that Cho could easily buy a gun despite all the warning signs?

I notice he didn't reply!

I notice the perfesser didn't reply until almost an hour after I left work for my day off.

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pwnd.

Hardly.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Until that point, it looks like allowing disarmed victim zones is a bigger mistake.

I'm not particularly gun-o-phobic, so I don't have a strong disagreement with this comment. I just wonder if allowing concealed carry on campus is the panacea some seem to think.

To me, it seems a better solution than what we have now.

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In the incident the OP linked, someone pulled a gun during a faculty meeting and killed/injured several people. Would anything have been different had someone had a concealed weapon?

Someone would at least have had a CHANCE to defend themself.

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If someone can walk into a Seattle coffee shop and kill four police officers, officers who were well armed and trained to deal with such situations, who can really believe that a bunch of University faculty (or basically any small group of untrained civilians caught off guard) would do significantly better?

You seem to think that the badge makes police officers somehow immune to the distractions us mere mortals have to deal with.

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Here's another scenario for those who favor opening campuses to firearms to consider. When I teach large undergraduate classes (yes rushmc I am a teacher) I will often be standing at the front of a large auditorium with 100 or more students sitting in crowded seats that rise up as you go to the back of the class. From my perspective, I am at the bottom looking up at a wall of students. Let's say I have just returned an exam, and a student who's stressed out (because his girlfriend just dumped him and now he's failing my course and he's going to lose his scholarship and have to drop out and he's nothing but a failure...typical student issues) decides he's mad at the world and stands up and starts shooting. What am I supposed to do? I have nothing but a plywood podium for cover. Even if I am armed, my target is completely surrounded by other students, so any shot I fire in his direction is pretty much certain to hit somebody.

After his first shot, I'm reasonably sure he's *NOT* going to be in "a wall of students" anymore.

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Even if I hit him with the first shot (highly unlikely considering I will not even know anything is going on until he's got off a couple of rounds, so if I'm not dead I'll likely be running for cover), unless I'm using a pellet gun the bullet may well pass through him and still injure/kill people behind him.

Possible, but not all *THAT* likely unless you're using Jeanne's 'little purse gun'.

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Will I still be a "hero" if I stop the bad guy, but in the process 4-5 innocent students are killed by "friendly fire"? Will their parents say, "we understand"?

Who gives a flying FUCK about 'being a hero'? Will the parents of the murdered students say 'we understand' when you tell them you did NOTHING to save their child?

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I believe law enforcement officers train extensively for such scenarios, yet dread them because there are no good solutions.

There *are* good solutions - but police bursting onto the scene are at a heavy disadvantage from the start.

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What makes people believe untrained civilians will miraculously do much better?

What makes people think that surrendering your safety to someone that is shooting the place up is so much better?

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We have several LEOs who post here, how would they recommend this situation be handled?

At least three of them say 'arm yourself and resist' (aggiedave, kennedy and skycop).

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I know that it can (and doubtless will) happen that a determined person can bring a gun onto campus and cause carnage.

That's been proven over and over again - regards of 'bans', criminals still get guns.

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No doubt in some circumstances a trained armed person could intervene in a useful way (someone might have stopped Cho earlier for example).

Yes, that's true - several school shootings have been stopped by armed civilians.

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On the other hand as it is any sighting of a gun on campus is cause to raise an alarm, so trained law enforcement could be alerted if a perpetrator was spotted on his way to the intended target. If it's OK to carry firearms around on campus, no alarm could be raised until the shooting actually starts.

Where was the alarm with Cho or this teacher, prior to them starting shooting?

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One last note, my understanding is that in Georgia the only requirement for a concealed carry permit is a clear criminal history.

Ok.

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Absolutely no training in the law (such as when it is legal to draw/use the weapon) is required, and neither is training in how to respond to situations where there are crowds of innocent people around. (If I'm wrong about the requirements, no doubt someone will correct me).

They're allowed to use their gun in defense of themselves or others, or to prevent a violent crime.

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It seems naive to me to expect untrained civilians to respond effectively and save the day, when LEOs have to spend a lot of time training for such scenarios.

It seems naive to me to continue to think that concealed carry holders are somehow "junior police" and expect them to perform the same duties.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706