And here come the tax hikes!

[Gawain 0]

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You know who pays most of the taxes? Wealthy people.

.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

You know who has the most money? Wealthy people.

I'm here all day! Feel free to ask anything, and I'll clear it right up!

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mirage62 0]

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So how many people will you hire for a $5000 tax credit?

You know how many I'm hiring? None.

You know why? It's not tax breaks that help a company make money.

You know why most companies are posting profits last year? Expense cuts.

You know what expense cuts have been taken? Laying people off their jobs.

You know who pays most of the taxes? Wealthy people.

You know which segment of business employs most Americans? Small business.

You know that a sole proprietor whose business made $200K last year is considered? Wealthy.

A full two-thirds of the "stimulus" went to unemployment and entitlement. Less than a tenth went to "shovel ready" "rebuilding infrastructure" items. Paying people not to work is not a stimulus that I know of.

+1

"Lucky" do you really think that a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes is rich? If so, since we small business folks got SO much under Bush and Regan would you just state simply how much would be fair.

Just a percentage. I really am interested. I mean go back to the old and make it right at 46% or so.

Please answer that if you will.

I am for a progressive tax rate but when does it just go over board?

Thanks

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kallend 2,148]

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So how many people will you hire for a $5000 tax credit?

You know how many I'm hiring? None.

You know why? It's not tax breaks that help a company make money.

You know why most companies are posting profits last year? Expense cuts.

You know what expense cuts have been taken? Laying people off their jobs.

You know who pays most of the taxes? Wealthy people.

You know which segment of business employs most Americans? Small business.

You know that a sole proprietor whose business made $200K last year is considered? Wealthy.

A full two-thirds of the "stimulus" went to unemployment and entitlement. Less than a tenth went to "shovel ready" "rebuilding infrastructure" items. Paying people not to work is not a stimulus that I know of.

+1

"Lucky" do you really think that a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes is rich?

$250,000 puts you in the top 4% of income. Seems a reasonable definition of wealthy to me. Even AFTER taxes that's still 6x the median personal income in the US.


Small business owners have access to far more "deductions" than the rest of us, too (and cheat on them far more often according to the IRS).

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Thanks

You're welcome.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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So how many people will you hire for a $5000 tax credit?

You know how many I'm hiring? None.

You know why? It's not tax breaks that help a company make money.

You know why most companies are posting profits last year? Expense cuts.

You know what expense cuts have been taken? Laying people off their jobs.

You know who pays most of the taxes? Wealthy people.

You know which segment of business employs most Americans? Small business.

You know that a sole proprietor whose business made $200K last year is considered? Wealthy.

A full two-thirds of the "stimulus" went to unemployment and entitlement. Less than a tenth went to "shovel ready" "rebuilding infrastructure" items. Paying people not to work is not a stimulus that I know of.

+1

"Lucky" do you really think that a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes is rich?

$250,000 puts you in the top 4% of income. Seems a reasonable definition of wealthy to me. Even AFTER taxes that's still 6x the median personal income in the US.


Small business owners have access to far more "deductions" than the rest of us, too (and cheat on them far more often according to the IRS).

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Thanks

You're welcome.

If a sole proprietor has one employee, making $30K/yr he still pays personal taxes on ALL revenue for his small business. Single guy, business makes $200K, minus salary, FICA/SS/payroll tax...do the math, and re-state "wealth" definitions again.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,148]

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Quote

If a sole proprietor has one employee, making $30K/yr he still pays personal taxes on ALL revenue for his small business. Single guy, business makes $200K, minus salary, FICA/SS/payroll tax...do the math, and re-state "wealth" definitions again.

I know how it works, I ran a small business from 1983 to 1997, made money every year, paid my taxes without whining.

Your local drycleaner is more likely to be a multimillionaire than your local Nobel prizewinner in medicine.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DanG 1]

So you're against tax credits for small businesses. Duly noted.

Check out Stephen Colbert's comments from Monday night about the Republican's reaction to Obama endorsing things that they themselves have been proposing for years. It's funny because it's true. The desire to see Obama fail at any price, including now opposing things that are part of the Republican platform, is telling.

- Dan G

[kelpdiver 2]

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$250,000 puts you in the top 4% of income. Seems a reasonable definition of wealthy to me. Even AFTER taxes that's still 6x the median personal income in the US.

As I've already noted, the value of that 250k differs radically by location. 250k in Knoxville is a far cry different from SF or Chicago (private schools!) or ... San Leandro, which is only marginally cheaper than other Bay Area cities.

[kallend 2,148]

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$250,000 puts you in the top 4% of income. Seems a reasonable definition of wealthy to me. Even AFTER taxes that's still 6x the median personal income in the US.

As I've already noted, the value of that 250k differs radically by location. 250k in Knoxville is a far cry different from SF or Chicago (private schools!) or ... San Leandro, which is only marginally cheaper than other Bay Area cities.

Fortson (who brought up the $250k number) doesn't live in SF, or even Richmond, Hayward or San Pablo. Being wealthy is what allows someone to live in SF rather than Fresno, Richmond or Nowhereville, AR.

And, to repeat, those poor hard-done-by small business owners are, according to the IRS, the biggest tax cheats out there.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Fortson (who brought up the $250k number) doesn't live in SF, or even Richmond, Hayward or San Pablo. Being wealthy is what allows someone to live in SF rather than Fresno, Richmond or Nowhereville, AR.

It's a very loose definition of wealthy.

My point remains - you can't tie salary to a percentile without regard for location. Because if you leave SF for Tennessee, that 250k household income, if based on salaries, will drop along with the cost of living. But at least you'll benefit from all of the tax rebates in the stimulus packages.

[Gawain 0]

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So you're against tax credits for small businesses. Duly noted.

Please show where I stated I was against tax credits for small business.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[idrankwhat 0]

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"Lucky" do you really think that a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes is rich?

Is that your tax rate or is that what you actually pay?
Those are two different things, often misused in these debates.

We used to have a Treasury Secretary who publicly boasted about paying less than zero in taxes for his business.

[mirage62 0]

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Fortson (who brought up the $250k number) doesn't live in SF, or even Richmond, Hayward or San Pablo. Being wealthy is what allows someone to live in SF rather than Fresno, Richmond or Nowhereville, AR.

And, to repeat, those poor hard-done-by small business owners are, according to the IRS, the biggest tax cheats out there

John, thats the second time, I believe that you have brought up the "small business people cheat on there taxes" with me.

Old buddy YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST CHEAT when you ran your business. It may have been the biggest badest most profitable business in the world that you got out of because you wanted to go back to or start teaching. But I run my books clean. I risk everything I have - everything is signed for. So forgive me if I'm not overly impressed with your thoughts on this one.

Besides your a worm and Im a big fat guy. next time I see you I'm going to sit on you and fart.

Love

fr

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[mnealtx 0]

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"Lucky" do you really think that a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes is rich?

Is that your tax rate or is that what you actually pay?
Those are two different things, often misused in these debates.

We used to have a Treasury Secretary who publicly boasted about paying less than zero in taxes for his business.

And now we have one that can't figure out Turbotax.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[marks2065 0]

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"Lucky" do you really think that a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes is rich?

Is that your tax rate or is that what you actually pay?
Those are two different things, often misused in these debates.

We used to have a Treasury Secretary who publicly boasted about paying less than zero in taxes for his business.

And now we have one that can't figure out Turbotax.

at least the one before understood how the tax system operated. knowledge of how your job works should be required to get the job.

[kallend 2,148]

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Fortson (who brought up the $250k number) doesn't live in SF, or even Richmond, Hayward or San Pablo. Being wealthy is what allows someone to live in SF rather than Fresno, Richmond or Nowhereville, AR.

And, to repeat, those poor hard-done-by small business owners are, according to the IRS, the biggest tax cheats out there

John, thats the second time, I believe that you have brought up the "small business people cheat on there taxes" with me.

Old buddy YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST CHEAT when you ran your business. It may have been the biggest badest most profitable business in the world that you got out of because you wanted to go back to or start teaching. But I run my books clean. I risk everything I have - everything is signed for. So forgive me if I'm not overly impressed with your thoughts on this one.

Besides your a worm and Im a big fat guy. next time I see you I'm going to sit on you and fart.

Love

fr

Fortson, you wrote: "a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes". I didn't realize you were referring to yourself.

Nothing personal. Just quoting the IRS.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Quote

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"Lucky" do you really think that a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes is rich?

Is that your tax rate or is that what you actually pay?
Those are two different things, often misused in these debates.

We used to have a Treasury Secretary who publicly boasted about paying less than zero in taxes for his business.

And now we have one that can't figure out Turbotax.

at least the one before understood how the tax system operated. knowledge of how your job works should be required to get the job.

Partisanship at its purest!
At least you guys are acknowledging that the system is rigged in favor of the wealthiest. Your only issue seems to be in whether they knew how to play the system to the fullest.

[Gawain 0]

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If a sole proprietor has one employee, making $30K/yr he still pays personal taxes on ALL revenue for his small business. Single guy, business makes $200K, minus salary, FICA/SS/payroll tax...do the math, and re-state "wealth" definitions again.

I know how it works, I ran a small business from 1983 to 1997, made money every year, paid my taxes without whining.

Your local drycleaner is more likely to be a multimillionaire than your local Nobel prizewinner in medicine.

I'm not whining about the actual act of paying taxes...I am whining about the method. A one time tax credit of $5K does little to nothing to off-set the costs of actually hiring someone, and those costs are even higher in a tight economic environment when companies have to hold down their margins and cut other expenses. It ends up being a more expensive proposition.

An overall reduced tax burden for a longer term (longer than a one-time credit) is better at reducing overhead and gives a company better flexibility to grow.

When a country has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world (and the number one has been floundering in economic stagnant conditions for nearly 20 years, Japan), it reinforces the reality that an increased tax burden is b-a-d for business, and therefore, b-a-d for employment.

Labor stats come out tomorrow, we'll have fresh debating points...yay!

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[justinb138 0]

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Partisanship at its purest!
At least you guys are acknowledging that the system is rigged in favor of the wealthiest. Your only issue seems to be in whether they knew how to play the system to the fullest.

So you're saying that a progressive tax is rigged to benefit the wealthy, who pay a much, much higher percentage than the poor (many of which not only don't pay taxes, but get money back that they didn't pay in)?

[mirage62 0]

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Fortson, you wrote: "a business owner who makes $250,000 a year and pays (currently) 41% taxes". I didn't realize you were referring to yourself.

Nothing personal. Just quoting the IRS.

Ok, I could quote a lot of people that say tenure sucks and most collage professor's have large out of control ego's....but I won't

And your still a worm.

But you have a nice airplane.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Ok, I could quote a lot of people that say tenure sucks and most collage professor's have large out of control ego's....but I won't

Just don't say anything about how the academics are hard at work doing a damn fine job in indoctrinating the next generation with their Leftist/Marxist political views under the false guise of "Economic Sustainability all in the name of Climate Change". We wouldn't actually want the academics to do their job of teaching the subject matter they are being paid to teach because it takes away from the all important task of braining washing the next generation into accepting global communism and adopting the United Nation's Agenda 21.

No we wouldn't want to say anything about that ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[idrankwhat 0]

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So you're saying that a progressive tax is rigged to benefit the wealthy,

Not the tax bracket structure. The tax code is rigged. Your rate has little to do with your actual tax after your income has been adjusted down to your taxable income through deductions and loopholes.

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who pay a much, much higher percentage than the poor (many of which not only don't pay taxes, but get money back that they didn't pay in)?

The wealthiest pay most of the tax, yes. But they can do so even though they pay a lower (or even the same) actual tax rate (I'm generalizing) because they make orders of magnitude more money. 7% tax on a $10,000,000 income is a whole lot more going into the Treasury than what, 100-200 average Joes?

[marks2065 0]

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So you're saying that a progressive tax is rigged to benefit the wealthy,

Not the tax bracket structure. The tax code is rigged. Your rate has little to do with your actual tax after your income has been adjusted down to your taxable income through deductions and loopholes.

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who pay a much, much higher percentage than the poor (many of which not only don't pay taxes, but get money back that they didn't pay in)?

The wealthiest pay most of the tax, yes. But they can do so even though they pay a lower (or even the same) actual tax rate (I'm generalizing) because they make orders of magnitude more money. 7% tax on a $10,000,000 income is a whole lot more going into the Treasury than what, 100-200 average Joes?

but don't the average Joe's need to pay their fair % also? why should anyone get a free ride? and who will pay the average Joe when uncle sam taxed that money out of the rich guy? why should the gov tax so much to employ so many when the private sector employs more for less? the 2 million people employed the the fed gov could easily be 3 million employed in the private sector.

[kallend 2,148]

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Ok, I could quote a lot of people that say tenure sucks and most collage professor's have large out of control ego's....but I won't

Just don't say anything about how the academics are hard at work doing a damn fine job in indoctrinating the next generation with their Leftist/Marxist political views under the false guise of "Economic Sustainability all in the name of Climate Change". We wouldn't actually want the academics to do their job of teaching the subject matter they are being paid to teach because it takes away from the all important task of braining washing the next generation into accepting global communism and adopting the United Nation's Agenda 21.

No we wouldn't want to say anything about that ...

Good. I spent one class today indoctrinating seniors about electron effective mass in semiconductors, and another class indoctrinating freshmen about metals and alloys. That indoctrination sure is fun.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,116]

>but don't the average Joe's need to pay their fair % also?

Sure.

>and who will pay the average Joe when uncle sam taxed that money out of
>the rich guy?

The same people who pay them now.

>why should the gov tax so much to employ so many when the private
>sector employs more for less?

Because you need money to operate the government. You want to reduce the size of the government, perhaps scale back the military, stop maintaining the highways and close NASA? OK. Do that first, then cut taxes once we start paying off our debt.

>the 2 million people employed the the fed gov could easily be 3 million
>employed in the private sector.

Uh - no, there's currently no demand for them. If you laid them off they'd be without a job, and the economy would get much worse very quickly. If you did it over 10 years the impact would be much less, as private sector jobs became available.

[mirage62 0]

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Good. I spent one class today indoctrinating seniors about electron effective mass in semiconductors, and another class indoctrinating freshmen about metals and alloys. That indoctrination sure is fun.

SEE that sounds like someone that LIKES paying taxes and in general looks like a worm. I rest my tax cheating case.

Still that tenure stuff is a good deal no matter what you teach.... kind of kills off any worries. But then again we are suppose to believe you CARE but a lot of collage prof don't.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little