Finally "no open carry" at some businesses

[rhaig 0]

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I'm not the one who wants to create a secret police apparatus from the homeland where citizens can rat each other out about gun ownership.

Me neither, so I have no idea what are you talking about.

I think he's referring to this
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3790162;so=ASC;sb=post_latest_reply;#3788922

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mandatory surrendering them in 30 days with a like $10K fine (and/or jail time) for everyone who refused after that. Out of that fine, $5K is going to be paid to a whistleblower, completely anonymously. Like this.

while you don't say anything about creation of a police force, neither does he. He's referring to an apparatus through which citizens inform (or blow the whistle to use your term) on each other.

--
Rob

[JohnRich 4]

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I think he's referring to this

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mandatory surrendering them in 30 days with a like $10K fine (and/or jail time) for everyone who refused after that. Out of that fine, $5K is going to be paid to a whistleblower, completely anonymously. Like this.
Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3790162;so=ASC;sb=post_latest_reply;#3788922

And in addition to that, georgerussuia has called for setting up fake, temporary school zones nearby gatherings of gun folks, as a pretext so that they can all be arrested for violating the law about carrying a gun near a school zone.
Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3795321;#3795321

And when all else fails, he seems to entertain fantasies about blowing up groups of gun folks with a bazooka.
Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3797656;#3797488

Readers: Are these the kind of people you want in charge of government?

Do you own a gun? If so, off to the gulag with you!

[JohnRich 4]

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Yet another "responsible gun owner" left their gun where a burglar can (sic) easily pick it up, which then was used to shot (sic) a police officer who caught him.

News:

Their View: Mexican gun control: The bitter irony

We read with horror about yet another mass slaughter in our Mexican border city, Juarez, on the last day of January when 18 young persons were killed in cold blood at a festive event. This story is now being repeated all over Mexico, particularly in the northern tier of states. There is a terrible irony about the current wave of deaths occurring from out-of-control shootings, many with fully automatic weapons.

The principle irony is this. To my knowledge, Mexico has the toughest gun control laws in the Western Hemisphere...

Source: http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-opinion/ci_14380633

[rushmc 23]

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Yet another "responsible gun owner" left their gun where a burglar can (sic) easily pick it up, which then was used to shot (sic) a police officer who caught him.

News:

Their View: Mexican gun control: The bitter irony

We read with horror about yet another mass slaughter in our Mexican border city, Juarez, on the last day of January when 18 young persons were killed in cold blood at a festive event. This story is now being repeated all over Mexico, particularly in the northern tier of states. There is a terrible irony about the current wave of deaths occurring from out-of-control shootings, many with fully automatic weapons.

The principle irony is this. To my knowledge, Mexico has the toughest gun control laws in the Western Hemisphere...

Source: http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-opinion/ci_14380633

Add to this that the weapons used are not easily available to US citizens

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[georgerussia 0]

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Add to this that the weapons used are not easily available to US citizens

Add to this that they do not really have any gun control, and you'll have it clear.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rushmc 23]

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Add to this that the weapons used are not easily available to US citizens

Add to this that they do not really have any gun control, and you'll have it clear.

What the hell are you talking about?

Mexico does not have gun control? It that what you are saying?

and if that is your "point" it makes no sense in any way

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[georgerussia 0]

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What the hell are you talking about?
Mexico does not have gun control? It that what you are saying?

Yes. They have gun control laws, but since they do not really enforce it, it is not control. Check the dictionary if you need to clarify what "control" means.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rushmc 23]

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What the hell are you talking about?
Mexico does not have gun control? It that what you are saying?

Yes. They have gun control laws, but since they do not really enforce it, it is not control. Check the dictionary if you need to clarify what "control" means.

OOooooooooooooK

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnRich 4]

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Add to this that they do not really have any gun control, and you'll have it clear.

Here's another primer for you to get up to speed on strict Mexican gun laws:
http://www.davekopel.com/Espanol/Mexican-Gun-Laws.htm

Their gun laws are much like the UK, but with much harsher penalties.

And yet this still doesn't produce the gun crime free society you dream of.
Nor does it seem to go far enough to satisfy you, in your quest to outlaw gun ownership.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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They have gun control laws, but since they do not really enforce it, it is not control.

No it's more like the criminals in Mexico, Canada, the USA (insert every other country on this planet) do NOT follow the existing firearms laws. There is a reason why they are referred to as criminals. Before you tell us to read a dictionary on what "control" means might we suggest you do the same to familiarize yourself with the word "criminal".

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[georgerussia 0]

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Here's another primer for you to get up to speed on strict Mexican gun laws:
http://www.davekopel.com/Espanol/Mexican-Gun-Laws.htm
Their gun laws are much like the UK, but with much harsher penalties.

There are some harsh adultery laws in U.S. - in MI, for example, it can (by law) get you a life in prison. Do you see any effect of adultery laws on adultery rates in U.S.? No, and this is because they are enforced pretty much the same way as Mexican gun laws (with the exception that Mexican gun law enforcement depends mostly on bribes).

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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No it's more like the criminals in Mexico, Canada, the USA (insert every other country on this planet) do NOT follow the existing firearms laws.

So why do those criminals obey firearm laws much more in Europe, Russia, UK, and even in Canada than in U.S.? You do know that there is significantly less gun violent crime there, and in most countries even overall violent crime is lower. How'd you explain that?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[christelsabine 1]

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I think he's referring to this

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mandatory surrendering them in 30 days with a like $10K fine (and/or jail time) for everyone who refused after that. Out of that fine, $5K is going to be paid to a whistleblower, completely anonymously. Like this.
Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3790162;so=ASC;sb=post_latest_reply;#3788922

And in addition to that, georgerussuia has called for setting up fake, temporary school zones nearby gatherings of gun folks, as a pretext so that they can all be arrested for violating the law about carrying a gun near a school zone.
Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3795321;#3795321

And when all else fails, he seems to entertain fantasies about blowing up groups of gun folks with a bazooka.
Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3797656;#3797488

Readers: Are these the kind of people you want in charge of government?

Do you own a gun? If so, off to the gulag with you!

Jesus Christ, JR! What made you leave your corral? GR did not call for anything, it was a fictitious example. You really need to fight on such a low level, man??

Vote catching? Bwahahahahaa .....

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[georgerussia 0]

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while you don't say anything about creation of a police force, neither does he.

That was my point.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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So why do those criminals obey firearm laws much more in Europe, Russia, UK, and even in Canada than in U.S.? You do know that there is significantly less gun violent crime there, and in most countries even overall violent crime is lower. How'd you explain that?

I can't speak for Europe since I don't live there, but what the hell are you talking about criminals obeying firearm laws in Canada? Criminals are not obeying the existing firearm laws here. Once again there is a reason why we call them criminals. They do not obey laws.

Good grief ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[georgerussia 0]

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And in addition to that, georgerussuia has called for setting up fake, temporary school zones nearby gatherings of gun folks, as a pretext so that they can all be arrested for violating the law about carrying a gun near a school zone.

This is a LIE #1. It states it clearly right there - "Got interesting comment", i.e. it got copypasted from this article comments. You are intentionally misrepresenting it as I called for it - and this was an intentional lie. Everyone can read the original post and see it yourself.

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And when all else fails, he seems to entertain fantasies about blowing up groups of gun folks with a bazooka.

And this is a LIE #2. I did not say anything about blowing up anyone. This is your own fantasy which you are trying to attribute it to me. Everyone can read my post and see it yourself.

Readers, do you see now why you must check everyrhing coming from JR? A significant part of what he writes here is straight plain lies, which are so obvious that a simple check would confirm that.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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I can't speak for Europe since I don't live there, but what the hell are you talking about criminals obeying firearm laws in Canada? Criminals are not obeying the existing firearm laws here.

Did you really read my question? Did you see much more part? I'm reminding you that you have LESS overall violent crime in Canada than in U.S. and most likely significantly less gun crime. Do you know why? After all, criminals are criminals, and - as NRA folks say - they can access illegal guns even if they're restricted. So why there is less crime in Canada?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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So why there is less crime in Canada?

Maybe there are just more criminals in the USA.

But you should pay closer attention to the firearm crimes that do occur up here.
The vast majority of them are committed by gang bangers who could careless what "gun control" laws are passed.

We spent 2 billion dollars on a stupid database that was sold to the public that it would forever rid all gun crime from the country. The opponents of this database said that was ludicrous and that a database would not stop criminals from committing firearm crimes. But in the end the urban "ALL GUNS SHOULD BE BANNED" people won, they got their 2 billion dollar white elephant (BTW this database was only supposed to cost 2 million dollars, where did the other $1,998,000,000 go? it went into the pockets of the corrupt government of the day that is where it went) and to this day the infamous gun registry has not made any difference. Why? Because criminals do NOT register their weapons. Criminals could careless what "gun control" laws are passed. Look at Mexico, they have even more strict gun control laws than Canada. Yet the gang bangers are still using firearms in their crimes in Mexico.

I wish I had an easy answer on how to control criminals. But I am not that smart.

But calling for a complete "gun ban" will NOT take the firearms out of the hands of criminals. Where there is a will there is a way. You know it's not that hard to make your own firearm and make your own ammunition if you have the knowledge and access to the materials. If the tribal peasants of Pakistan can be making their own AK-47s you know people here can do the same.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[JohnRich 4]

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So why do those criminals obey firearm laws much more in Europe, Russia, UK, and even in Canada than in U.S.? You do know that there is significantly less gun violent crime there, and in most countries even overall violent crime is lower. How'd you explain that?

CULTURE

It has nothing to do with the number of guns or gun laws.

[JohnRich 4]

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Jesus Christ, JR! What made you leave your corral? GR did not call for anything, it was a fictitious example. You really need to fight on such a low level, man?? Vote catching? Bwahahahahaa .....

I wonder if it's possible for you to make a response without gratuitous personal insults?

Everyone who lives in Texas does not have a corral. Get over your stereotypes.

GR was giving examples of the types of things he would like to see done for real. Every law currently in existence was at one time just a "fictitious" proposal. Therefore, they are open for debate, as to whether or not his proposals are worthy.

But I thank you for not mentioning clowns this time.

[JohnRich 4]

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"Anyway, there is a lot of possible implementations - from "grandfathering" with prohibiting any kind of transfer of ownership to mandatory surrendering them in 30 days with a like $10K fine (and/or jail time) for everyone who refused after that. Out of that fine, $5K is going to be paid to a whistleblower, completely anonymously. Like this."
- georgerussia

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while you don't say anything about creation of a police force, neither does he.

That was my point.

Then who would enforce this scheme you are proposing? Who is going to arrest gun owners who violate your rules? Who is going to bring them to justice to collect the fines? Who is going to confiscate the guns when they fail to comply?

Will it be the tooth fairy? The easter bunny?

You haven't thought through your idea enough yet.

[JohnRich 4]

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And in addition to that, georgerussuia has called for setting up fake, temporary school zones nearby gatherings of gun folks, as a pretext so that they can all be arrested for violating the law about carrying a gun near a school zone.

This is a LIE #1. It states it clearly right there - "Got interesting comment", i.e. it got copypasted from this article comments. You are intentionally misrepresenting it as I called for it - and this was an intentional lie. Everyone can read the original post and see it yourself.

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And when all else fails, he seems to entertain fantasies about blowing up groups of gun folks with a bazooka.

And this is a LIE #2. I did not say anything about blowing up anyone. This is your own fantasy which you are trying to attribute it to me. Everyone can read my post and see it yourself...

So you put forth both of these ideas, but you are now claiming that you don't approve of either of them?

You can clear up all this confusion by simply clarifying your position; either confirm or deny that you would support these ideas. It's that simple and straight-forward. Try it.

You holler "lie!" so much it's starting to not have any meaning at all, coming from you. Sort of like that Aesop's fable about "The boy who cried wolf." It would seem that everyone that disagrees with you is a "liar" in some fashion or another.

[georgerussia 0]

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Maybe there are just more criminals in the USA.

Why? As NRA folks tell us, criminals are less likely to commit violent crimes if they can expect armed response (which is the whole point of owning guns, is that correct?). So there must be significantly less violent criminals in USA, why it is not the case?

And the crime rate is calculated per 100K, so the difference in population is already applied here.

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But you should pay closer attention to the firearm crimes that do occur up here.
The vast majority of them are committed by gang bangers who could careless what "gun control" laws are passed.

Firearm crimes happen everywhere. It is naive to expect a gun ban to reduce the number of crimes to zero. However it IS reduced significantly enough to be used as a working solution in a lot of countries around the world.

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We spent 2 billion dollars on a stupid database that was sold to the public that it would forever rid all gun crime from the country. The opponents of this database said that was ludicrous and that a database would not stop criminals from committing firearm crimes.

Obviously it won't stop ALL criminals - but typically the role of such database is to help with investigation after the crime is committed. It is not to decrease number of crimes directly, it is to increase the number of criminals caught through more effective police work. As a result, it will take several years before you see any effect.

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But calling for a complete "gun ban" will NOT take the firearms out of the hands of criminals. Where there is a will there is a way. You know it's not that hard to make your own firearm and make your own ammunition if you have the knowledge and access to the materials.

Fine with me. Those very few criminals who have access to machines, material and necessary education and skills to make a gun AND ammo would end up being extremely small number. Definitely not something to worry about.

And if it ends up being a mass-black-market weapons factory, it could be raided. It's not like there gonna be a lot of them.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Then who would enforce this scheme you are proposing?

Existing law enforcement. No need to create a special secret police.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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It has nothing to do with the number of guns or gun laws.

No, it does. Gun availability and gun ownership paranoia is a significant part of U.S. culture. This is pretty obvious in some cases like drive-through shootings.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *