RonD1120 62
QuoteQuoteReality like beauty exists in the mind of the beholder.
Hogwash. Objective reality exists with or without the "mind of the beholder".
Your personal SUBJECTIVE PERCEPTION of reality may exist in the "mind of the beholder" (you), but that doesn't mean squat about how reality is perceived by anyone else or what reality actually is.
If it did, it would mean that whatever YOU believe is real and whatever I believe is real is real . . . that's demonstrably incorrect.
If one person believes Jesus is the physical manifestation and actual "Son of God" and another doesn't, there's no possible way they can both be right.
Obviously, you have never worked in the field of mental health or substance use disorder.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 62
Quote
So again, I ask, what do you think makes something real?
Our moderator operates with the belief that his opinion is the final word. It's like a mother saying, "Because I said so."
Jesus instructed us to become as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven. You and I understand that to mean we must see the world in a state of awe and wonder. To this moderator it is the basis of his belief that the Christian faith is bunk.
Remember the words of the great pontif, "Illigetimi non carburondom."
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 62
Quote
Are you kidding? Am I the one who claims to be nuetral while at the same time saying things like "All religions are cults"
From the Christian perspective cults have one or more of the following characteristics:
1. The deity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is denied.
2. The atoning death of Jesus Christ on the cross is not accepted.
3. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is denied.
4. The Holy Bible is not accepted as the complete Word of God to mankind.
5. The Holy Bible requires current supplemental works for modern interpretation. (not to be confused with study guides or translations)
6. The Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is not accepted.
7. Membership requires a dedicated submissive worship of the leader instead of Jesus Christ. (worship the messenger instead of the message)
8. Overall faith is based on Scripture taken out of context. (snake handlers)
9. The concept of sin is not accepted.
10. Mankind can achieve oneness with God through good works.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 62
Quote
I'm not "out to get the religionists". I'm trying to help them.
When people have mental illnesses, they can be given
medication to make their problems manageable until
the therapy works.
Religion is an emotional crutch that supplies simplistic
answers to complex questions. It's failing is that
it never actually supplies correct answers, so the sufferer
continues to live in fear.
To control its members, it uses their guilt, fear, and self-esteem issues.
It is a superficial crutch, but a damaging one.
Thanks for the help but, it is based on an error.
Christians live in love not fear.
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
Or put another way, the opposite of faith is fear.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 62
Quote
I am not offering an explanation, just pointing out the amazing faith of the atheist that equates the unknown equal to nonexistence. Spiritual/metaphysical reality is not limited to the laws of physics. God is a Spirit and must be perceived by the spirit. If your spiritual eyes are indeed open you will see.
...
The naysayers seem to repeat the same concept. One, is that they know all there is to know and they know God does not exist. Or, they admit they don't know everything but there absolutely no possibility that God could exist in what they don't know.
We don't know where the wind comes from or where it goes but while it is here we experience the effects of it and it becomes real. The Greek word for air and/or spirit is pneuma.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
rehmwa 2
that was a very Lucky-like series of post responding.
I find persistent preaching to be just as annoying as the smugness of the religiosity of the atheists.
A good thread discussing the application of the founders desire to separate a secular government from a country of (originally) citizens of faith is interesting. thread drift into the same tired old for vs against religions is just a waste of bandwidth on a topic that's just beat to death here.
atheism and religion are matters of faith - there is no proof by definition - so debating them is pointless - the most constructive attitude one can have about them is finding personal value in it regardless of one's position - or apathy - either way.
So congratulations - all of you have made a personal decision on the matter and it works for you. Isn't that enough? Trying to convert each other, or even belittling the other's positions is just self gratification of the worst kind.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
I find persistent preaching to be just as annoying as the smugness of the religiosity of the atheists.
A good thread discussing the application of the founders desire to separate a secular government from a country of (originally) citizens of faith is interesting. thread drift into the same tired old for vs against religions is just a waste of bandwidth on a topic that's just beat to death here.
atheism and religion are matters of faith - there is no proof by definition - so debating them is pointless - the most constructive attitude one can have about them is finding personal value in it regardless of one's position - or apathy - either way.
So congratulations - all of you have made a personal decision on the matter and it works for you. Isn't that enough? Trying to convert each other, or even belittling the other's positions is just self gratification of the worst kind.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
jakee 1,571
Quote10. Mankind can achieve oneness with God through good works.
Cultist bastards!
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
jakee 1,571
QuoteI find persistent preaching to be just as annoying as the smugness of the religiosity of the atheists...
Trying to convert each other, or even belittling the other's positions is just self gratification of the worst kind.
Ahem.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
RonD1120 62
Quotethat was a very Lucky-like series of post responding.
I find persistent preaching to be just as annoying as the smugness of the religiosity of the atheists.
A good thread discussing the application of the founders desire to separate a secular government from a country of (originally) citizens of faith is interesting. thread drift into the same tired old for vs against religions is just a waste of bandwidth on a topic that's just beat to death here.
atheism and religion are matters of faith - there is no proof by definition - so debating them is pointless - the most constructive attitude one can have about them is finding personal value in it regardless of one's position - or apathy - either way.
So congratulations - all of you have made a personal decision on the matter and it works for you. Isn't that enough? Trying to convert each other, or even belittling the other's positions is just self gratification of the worst kind.
I think you have made an astute observation. But, it is what it is.
QuoteSpeaker's Corner
A Soap Box in Cyber Space. This is the place to discuss politics, guns, religion and any other topic you feel the need to address from your soap box. Debates may get heated in here but the forum rules apply as everywhere else.
The definition of "soap box" is pretty open ended.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteTrying to convert each other, or even belittling the other's positions is just self gratification of the worst kind.
I tend to agree with you, but there are indeed facts about Jesus that continually get overlooked in these forums, and since many non-believers are people of purely fact, it seems appropriate to at least set the facts straight as they apply to the Gospel. I still contend that I am not the ones starting theses threads, however, I seem to enjoy them a great deal... aparently. Plus, it does help time go by at work!
I think people just like discussing matters of spirituality vs non-spirituality. And given a forum like this one, they should be able to right? I dont think any of us decided to go on Dz.com and implant ourselves into the spirituality threads, but, in researching skydiving, we found this little community, and, a place in the community as well. I think people in these forums like to think alot, and, like to write, alot... so if anything, regardless what the discussion is, at least it can be theraputic for those who do like to think and write.
Anytime someone doesnt see things your way it can be quite frustrating, nevertheless, connections and common ground can often be found deep in that frustration... whether your attempting to connect with someone or not. Few of us have actually met (speaking for myself) and I think given the opprotunity to meet, we would see that we are indeed very similar in our uniqueness.
I dont think anyone is trying to belittle, in fact I think most of the "shots" that are taken are taken out of frustration more than an implied "malice"... but thats one of the great things about this forum... venting about what is not understood is a good thing, at least it is closer to the truth than trying to "win" an argument.
"We didn't start the fire"
rehmwa 2
QuoteThe definition of "soap box" is pretty open ended.
absolutely - and go ahead
my point is simple
A christian nation choosing to establish a secular government is something we never get to flesh out and it is a very good topic - especially today's context when the culture of the nation is now much diverged from that basis in the matter of religiosity
whereas, christian theology vs atheistic theology is a dead horse here - however - soap box away - it keeps about 4 people entertained
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
quade 4
QuoteQuoteQuoteReality like beauty exists in the mind of the beholder.
Hogwash. Objective reality exists with or without the "mind of the beholder".
Your personal SUBJECTIVE PERCEPTION of reality may exist in the "mind of the beholder" (you), but that doesn't mean squat about how reality is perceived by anyone else or what reality actually is.
If it did, it would mean that whatever YOU believe is real and whatever I believe is real is real . . . that's demonstrably incorrect.
If one person believes Jesus is the physical manifestation and actual "Son of God" and another doesn't, there's no possible way they can both be right.
Obviously, you have never worked in the field of mental health or substance use disorder.
Nor do I need to in order to know that a person's subjective perception has nothing to do with objective reality.
Just because a person is high on drugs and thinks the walls are moving doesn't mean they are.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
QuoteQuote
Are you kidding? Am I the one who claims to be nuetral while at the same time saying things like "All religions are cults"
From the Christian perspective cults have one or more of the following characteristics:
1. The deity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is denied.
2. The atoning death of Jesus Christ on the cross is not accepted.
3. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is denied.
4. The Holy Bible is not accepted as the complete Word of God to mankind.
5. The Holy Bible requires current supplemental works for modern interpretation. (not to be confused with study guides or translations)
6. The Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is not accepted.
7. Membership requires a dedicated submissive worship of the leader instead of Jesus Christ. (worship the messenger instead of the message)
8. Overall faith is based on Scripture taken out of context. (snake handlers)
9. The concept of sin is not accepted.
10. Mankind can achieve oneness with God through good works.
List of Cults
Jews
Catholics
Muslims
Buddhists
Hindus
Anglicans (Episcopalians)
Mormons
Russian Orthodox
Greek Orthodox
Basically everyone on the planet except some evangelical Protestants and, strangely enough, Rastas.
RonD1120 62
Quote
Obviously, you have never worked in the field of mental health or substance use disorder.
Nor do I need to in order to know that a person's subjective perception has nothing to do with objective reality.
Just because a person is high on drugs and thinks the walls are moving doesn't mean they are.
You missed the point but, as Andy 9o8 says, that's my fault.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteAll "spirit world", gods, astrology, mysticism, religion, Tarot cards, etc
are the same silliness.
It is funny to me that a little humble man, 2000 yrs ago, made such an uproar in the established world authorities that they considered him such an imposition, and threat, on their reign. He must have had quite a following for the Armies of Rome and the so-called Holy Jewish teachers of the law to want him crucified. I believe there was/is something very special about Jesus... I dont think, even if I were an atheist, that I could completely overlook his impact on the earth and dismiss everything he stood for as easily as many of you seem to do.
So, silly or not, maybe there was something supernatural about this man? Maybe he did know things that are out of this world. Maybe he did actually raise the dead, heal people, and speak life into the hearts of those who would listen. With as powerful a "man" as Jesus is, we have many today who look at that power and call it silly, rather than even coming remotely close to seeing the silliness in themselves.
Dismissing all possibiltiy that there is no wisdom beyond that of human intelligence is the line of thought many of you appear to follow? Now most of you accuse us of taking things on faith, but you do the same things, dont you? Except you dont call it faith, you call it fact... that just doesnt sound right to me. At the very least, you dont know. You could at least accept that possibility, but you dont (seemingly)
How can a man, who is part of the "creation" of the ever moving universe understand with pure certainty that there is nothing more wise? Especially with how much wisdom life in general shows us over and over again. Survival alone shows us a great deal of wisdom. Not just knowledge, but the wisdom to adapt and survive. But if survival is the main purpose of life, I dont think we are doing a very good job given our supposed superior intelligence, do you? Perhaps there is something more to the purpose of life?
The more I think about things, the more I wonder what lifes actual purpose is. What good are we for the planet? If life drifted in space with the ever adaptive principles that sustain its very survival, why has it evolved into something so great that it actually has the power, and the will, to destroy not only its inhabited enviornments, but itself as well?
So, the purpose of this evolved life, as science seems to hint, is simply to survive, flourish, consume, destroy, and move on... all with purely organic objectives and little to no give on even the possibilities that there could be more, much more. Doesnt really seem fair to the one searching for objectiveness, as proud atheism boasts, does it?
"We didn't start the fire"
Christianity is your flavor of mysticism. It has no bearing
on any of my beliefs as an adult. I don't have to
study animism to realize that rocks and trees do not
have a living spirit. Druids were superstitious people who understood little.
They are all the same. All religions are fairy tales.
Didn't you just grow up one day and realize, without being told,
that there is no Santa Claus?
I realized that it was a childs belief.
All "spirit world", gods, astrology, mysticism, religion, Tarot cards, etc
are the same silliness.
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