Freedom OF religion means freedom FROM religion

[jakee 1,571]

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#279 - Not relevant to my personal statement.

Yes, it was. I've already demonstrated that you dodged the question first time round by pretending you were talking about something you weren't actually talking about.

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#302 - I do not know, please tell me.

But you seemed so confident that you knew! You said it was definitely in Secular Humanism. (Never mind that you've still not said what it actually is)

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Now this is the one that got billvon's attention. As tactfully as I can state, if you announce you are a hobo that means you are a non-employed drifter.

Like I said, I'm not. So do I get extra hope points now? Am I no longer "a person without hope, an ego centric seeking only the maximum return for today and no thought for tomorrow"?

And have you made up your mind yet whether me not believing in a metaphysical higher power means I must place my hope in Secular Humanism, or somewhere else, or that I've got no hope at all? You seem to think you know a lot about me, so maybe if you could just get your story straight I might be able to learn something about my inner feelings here.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Just one post on the original topic and why there should be freedom from religion.

I grew up in South Africa, which has a heavily Christian presence, the parts where I live could I suppose be likened to the bible belt of the US.

I grew up in a Christian home, I was forced to attend church from birth until I was 15.

Now this is where religion is so disgusting, you see a young child is extremely gullible and will through human nature trust what is told to them by their parents, the parents are the ones who tell them what is dangerous and what isn't. And I, like many other unlucky children were brought up with the idea that if I did not follow God, I would burn for eternity in the pits of a fire filled hell. Now drilling that into a child's head every weekend and every other day will have an impact on them, no matter how illogical it is- they will truly believe it.

I was a firm believer, and like majority of kids it was out of fear- religion is just that, a fear based movement. Sure later on in life you start seeing people at church, you become friends and you become part of something, you feel loved and you decide it was Jesus who allowed this (this is no different than a cult). Again it is human nature to want to be accepted and loved by peers, so now you have a happy bunch of people who all choose to believe what they do because it makes them happy.

You know why religion is so big? Because during the initial stages of said religions it was met with violence and force. Let's take Christianity for example- The Christian faith was extremely small until the Roman Empire decided it would be fit to rape and kill those in invaded cities unless they claimed they were Christian- and through this method the Christian faith gained thousands of followers (out of fear)... And they were then forced to teach their children the 'faith', now this went on for ages, taking different forms... Just a few hundred years ago it was the same thing with the witch hunts- people were forced into Christianity through fear. Dictatorship has been the driving force of Christianity for thousands of years.

The same thing today except now, instead of beheadings and lynchings, you are socially neglected in many parts. That's how it is here, if a Christian hears you are an Atheist, you are the enemy and a bad person.

As I stated though, dictatorship and fear caused the spread of Christianity (most religions). And the idea of passing it on to Children with stories of gruesome details of post-death happenings is nothing less than sick. If your idea is to raise a mindless drone of a human being who has been shell shocked into believing something, sure go ahead.

This is what happened to me, I grew up in a family where only my 1 grandfather was not religious, and the rest of the family would try their best to make sure he never told me anything that contradicted the Christian faith, because God forbid I make up my own mind based on facts.

It's all about only providing the facts that support religion, oh I`m sorry did I say facts and religion in 1 sentence- I mean bullshit.

Finally when I was old enough I was lucky to question my faith PROPERLY. And it was the best day of my life (3 months), everything that seemed so true and believable suddenly became insane. Like that Christian song "I once was blind, but now I see"- I fucking saw! I saw that my entire family was brainwashed through decades of false teachings to them as children. I saw the world for what it is, and suddenly the world just became that much more beautiful.

When my mother found out, I was about 17 and she went crazy, claiming I was going to burn in hell and that it's the devil in my music that's done this. I'm pretty sure most of my family still thinks I'm Christian or else they would probably never speak to me.

Now back to the main topic, there is an age of consent for sex because children aren't yet ready to make a decision that big because they are easily manipulated into something they will regret- but yet it's perfectly legal to get a child involved into religion from any age, something that is actually far more dangerous than sex.

Religious brainwashing in children is nothing short of disgusting and should a religious person feel his or her God is that powerful and his presence so widely felt he or she should trust that through the course of life and through lessons learned their child will decide religion for themselves. Not try hide the facts in the hopes of tricking them into yours. Let's not forget many churches stances on dinosaurs, especially 10-20 years ago. It's laughable.

This is the kind of analysis a teenager would come up with, who thinks he's figured out everything.

Speed Racer
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[Meso 38]

Or maybe one that isn't still blinded by the bullshit he was fed throughout his life. Though I am neither a teenager nor do I claim to know everything. But I do know that which was taught to me is bullshit.

It's okay if you are still following the crap fed to you and are not willing to open your eyes to reality... Really it is, that's your decision. I'll be the one laughing when you've wasted your whole life trying to please an entity that is non-existent, and I lived for myself.

It all comes down to the topic at hand, one should be able to exist without religion being shoved down your throat as a child.

Sadly we all live in a world where pride, gullibility and stubbornness overtakes logic and reason. There is no harm in letting people decide a religion for themselves when they grow up a bit... It's different when you feed a child religion, you could preach the teachings of a magic tea cup and they`d believe it just as blindly. The reason for a strong Christian presence isnt a good argument or a more logical teaching, it's the amount of people teaching it to kids.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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What makes my heart sad is that you do not see the message of love in the gospel. Our main poster on that subject is rynodigsmusic. He gets beat up every time he makes a positive statement.

It seems that no one here desires to see any love. Everything is a battle, one-ups-manship, win-lose, statistical BS, intolerance of faith. etc.

Now, the Holy Bible has an answer for that. It is called the "end times." Those of us for whom the signs are visible also have hope in what lies on the other side.

I don't see Rynodigsmusic (or you for that matter) getting "beat up" for making positive statements about the love of God.

The only thing Rynodigsmusic gets called on is when he claims words have definitions different than what most on here believe.

The battles, oneupsmanship, win/lose, statistical BS is all because it's SC. Read the threads on any other controversial topic and you will see the same crap. That's what SC is for. People of radically different views debating.
It becomes contentious when one side refueses to acknowledge that the other side has any validity to their views. Certain posters are more prone to this than others.

(referring to a previous post of yours) The mods on here do a pretty decent job keeping the peace here. If you can't differentiate between attacks on your views and attacks on your person, then it might seem biased.

The end times predicted in the bible have been "imminent" based on "signs" since it was written. Comets, eclipses, earthquakes, storms and political events have all been seen as "proof" the end times are nigh.
It hasn't happened yet.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[philh 0]

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What is "revelation knowledge" , was the revelation that Muhammed recieved Gods last message to mankind an example of this?

Yes, that is an example.

.. and this is a good way to knowledge how?

[RonD1120 62]

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I don't see Rynodigsmusic (or you for that matter) getting "beat up" for making positive statements about the love of God.

The only thing Rynodigsmusic gets called on is when he claims words have definitions different than what most on here believe.

The battles, oneupsmanship, win/lose, statistical BS is all because it's SC. Read the threads on any other controversial topic and you will see the same crap. That's what SC is for. People of radically different views debating.
It becomes contentious when one side refueses to acknowledge that the other side has any validity to their views. Certain posters are more prone to this than others.

(referring to a previous post of yours) The mods on here do a pretty decent job keeping the peace here. If you can't differentiate between attacks on your views and attacks on your person, then it might seem biased.

The end times predicted in the bible have been "imminent" based on "signs" since it was written. Comets, eclipses, earthquakes, storms and political events have all been seen as "proof" the end times are nigh.
It hasn't happened yet.

Good words, thanks.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[mnealtx 0]

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I'm asking you for proof that they have.

Sucks to be you, then - he's the one that made the original post about it, so the burden is on him. Feel free to start your own thread about the reverse, however.

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If there is none, then they should not be funded by taxpayers.

I don't have a problem with that, so long as it's applied fairly across the board.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[RonD1120 62]

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What is "revelation knowledge" , was the revelation that Muhammed recieved Gods last message to mankind an example of this?

Yes, that is an example.

.. and this is a good way to knowledge how?

I said it was an example. I didn't say I thought it was a good example.

The manner in which I use the term revelation knowledge is what we in the counseling business call an "ah hah" experience. It is profound and it is personal. It is what it is and does not require proof for someone else.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jclalor 12]

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Just one post on the original topic and why there should be freedom from religion.

I grew up in South Africa, which has a heavily Christian presence, the parts where I live could I suppose be likened to the bible belt of the US.

I grew up in a Christian home, I was forced to attend church from birth until I was 15.

Now this is where religion is so disgusting, you see a young child is extremely gullible and will through human nature trust what is told to them by their parents, the parents are the ones who tell them what is dangerous and what isn't. And I, like many other unlucky children were brought up with the idea that if I did not follow God, I would burn for eternity in the pits of a fire filled hell. Now drilling that into a child's head every weekend and every other day will have an impact on them, no matter how illogical it is- they will truly believe it.

I was a firm believer, and like majority of kids it was out of fear- religion is just that, a fear based movement. Sure later on in life you start seeing people at church, you become friends and you become part of something, you feel loved and you decide it was Jesus who allowed this (this is no different than a cult). Again it is human nature to want to be accepted and loved by peers, so now you have a happy bunch of people who all choose to believe what they do because it makes them happy.

You know why religion is so big? Because during the initial stages of said religions it was met with violence and force. Let's take Christianity for example- The Christian faith was extremely small until the Roman Empire decided it would be fit to rape and kill those in invaded cities unless they claimed they were Christian- and through this method the Christian faith gained thousands of followers (out of fear)... And they were then forced to teach their children the 'faith', now this went on for ages, taking different forms... Just a few hundred years ago it was the same thing with the witch hunts- people were forced into Christianity through fear. Dictatorship has been the driving force of Christianity for thousands of years.

The same thing today except now, instead of beheadings and lynchings, you are socially neglected in many parts. That's how it is here, if a Christian hears you are an Atheist, you are the enemy and a bad person.

As I stated though, dictatorship and fear caused the spread of Christianity (most religions). And the idea of passing it on to Children with stories of gruesome details of post-death happenings is nothing less than sick. If your idea is to raise a mindless drone of a human being who has been shell shocked into believing something, sure go ahead.

This is what happened to me, I grew up in a family where only my 1 grandfather was not religious, and the rest of the family would try their best to make sure he never told me anything that contradicted the Christian faith, because God forbid I make up my own mind based on facts.

It's all about only providing the facts that support religion, oh I`m sorry did I say facts and religion in 1 sentence- I mean bullshit.

Finally when I was old enough I was lucky to question my faith PROPERLY. And it was the best day of my life (3 months), everything that seemed so true and believable suddenly became insane. Like that Christian song "I once was blind, but now I see"- I fucking saw! I saw that my entire family was brainwashed through decades of false teachings to them as children. I saw the world for what it is, and suddenly the world just became that much more beautiful.

When my mother found out, I was about 17 and she went crazy, claiming I was going to burn in hell and that it's the devil in my music that's done this. I'm pretty sure most of my family still thinks I'm Christian or else they would probably never speak to me.

Now back to the main topic, there is an age of consent for sex because children aren't yet ready to make a decision that big because they are easily manipulated into something they will regret- but yet it's perfectly legal to get a child involved into religion from any age, something that is actually far more dangerous than sex.

Religious brainwashing in children is nothing short of disgusting and should a religious person feel his or her God is that powerful and his presence so widely felt he or she should trust that through the course of life and through lessons learned their child will decide religion for themselves. Not try hide the facts in the hopes of tricking them into yours. Let's not forget many churches stances on dinosaurs, especially 10-20 years ago. It's laughable.

This is the kind of analysis a teenager would come up with, who thinks he's figured out everything.

Nothing worse for religion than an adult who thinks on his own.

[jclalor 12]

This is the kind of analysis a teenager would come up with, who thinks he's figured out everything.

“It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so”
Ernestine Rose

[SpeedRacer 1]

Unless the adult who thinks on his own sees the value in his religious faith.

Speed Racer
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[philh 0]

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What is "revelation knowledge" , was the revelation that Muhammed recieved Gods last message to mankind an example of this?

Yes, that is an example.

.. and this is a good way to knowledge how?

I said it was an example. I didn't say I thought it was a good example.

The manner in which I use the term revelation knowledge is what we in the counseling business call an "ah hah" experience. It is profound and it is personal. It is what it is and does not require proof for someone else.

Why is it not a good example? The person claimed a revelation, whats wrong with it? How is it different from Christian revelation? and how is any of this "knowledge"?

[RonD1120 62]

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Why is it not a good example? The person claimed a revelation, whats wrong with it? How is it different from Christian revelation? and how is any of this "knowledge"?

Oh, now I get it. Yeah, "will it go round in circles."

Homey don't want play that s**t no mo'.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 4]

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BTW, an atheist is not necessarily a bad person and the enemy. They are just sinners.
I just want people to know they can be forgiven from sin.

BTW, atheists don't NEED to be forgiven by a god they don't believe exists.

That's the least convincing argument for religion, because without god atheists are left with being forgiven by those that they have wronged. It means their morality stems from not hurting other people to begin with rather than knowing they can hurt someone and still be forgiven by god.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[redlegphi 0]

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What is "revelation knowledge" , was the revelation that Muhammed recieved Gods last message to mankind an example of this?

Yes, that is an example.

.. and this is a good way to knowledge how?

I said it was an example. I didn't say I thought it was a good example.

The manner in which I use the term revelation knowledge is what we in the counseling business call an "ah hah" experience. It is profound and it is personal. It is what it is and does not require proof for someone else.

I believe in the english language we would refer to that as an epiphany. Much easier to say and understand than "revelation knowledge", a term which I hadn't heard until this thread. Why make up completely new terms when there are perfectly good old words floating around that mean the exact same thing?

[quade 4]

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I believe in the english language we would refer to that as an epiphany.

Pretty sure the word has religious roots too!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RonD1120 62]

Time for new generation of black Americans
Star Parker - Syndicated Columnist - 2/22/2010 10:35:00 AM


Black History Month 2010 is not a great time for a party. Unemployment at almost 10 percent -- well over 16 percent among blacks -- doesn't make for much of a festive mood.

But if the mood is not festive, shouldn't it be reflective?

Certainly, there's reason for pride in black achievement in the 40-plus years since the Civil Rights movement. We've now got a couple black billionaires and a black president. The percentage of blacks with college degrees is three times greater now than in 1970.

But black household income is still just 62 percent of white households. And the black poverty rate, at twice the national average, has hardly budged since the late 1960s.

Blacks should be asking hard questions when, over this period of time, many immigrants from different backgrounds have come to this country with little and moved into the middle class in one generation.

The accumulation of considerable black political power -- black mayors, governors, a 42-member Black Congressional Caucus, and now a black president -- has hardly made a difference. It should be clear that black economic distress is not a political problem.

Studies show that it's family and education that produces success in America. Income correlates with education and education correlates with family background.

Now consider that in 1970, 62 percent of black women were married compared to 33 percent today. In 1970, 74 percent of black men were married, compared to 44 percent today.

Or that in 1970, five percent of black mothers were never married compared to 41 percent today.

The Civil Rights movement was, of course, a religiously inspired and led movement. It made liberal use of the biblical imagery of the Exodus of the Israelite slaves from Egypt.

Taylor Branch called his trilogy about Dr. Martin Luther King and the movement he led Parting of the Waters, Pillar of Fire, and At Canaan's Edge.

To the misfortune of blacks that put great hope in the redemptive powers of that movement, their leaders prematurely closed their Bibles.

The story of the liberation of the Israelite slaves did not end with their release from their Egyptian taskmasters. That was the beginning. They then proceeded to the mountain in the wilderness to receive the law to take with them and live by in the Promised Land.

When it was clear that the former Egyptian slaves were not up to the task, they were condemned to wander for 40 years in the wilderness so that a new generation would arise, enter the land, and build the nation.

Let's recall that the law they received was about family (honor your parents), about property and ownership (thou shalt not steal), and about being concerned about building your own and not what your neighbor has (thou shalt not covet).

Rather than seeking redemption through this law, post-Civil Rights movement black leaders sought redemption in politics. The welfare state, entitlements, transfer payments, and the politics of differences and envy. Should we be surprised by the result?

The New York Times recently reported that from 2004 to 2008, the political and charitable arms of the Congressional Black Caucus raised more than $55 million from corporations and unions. According to the Times, most of these funds were "spent on elaborate conventions...a headquarters building, golf outings...and an annual visit to a Mississippi casino resort."

More was spent on the caterer for the Caucus's Foundation annual dinner -- $700,000 - than it gave out in scholarships.

It's now over 40 years since the Civil Right movement -- enough wandering in the wilderness.

It's time for a new generation of black Americans to step forward. A generation to turn to the truths that will rebuild black lives, black families, and lead blacks to the freedom that Dr. King and all blacks have dreamed about.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[philh 0]

Anyone who think the Exodus is a good inspiration for people needs their head examined. Lets remember what happened in that biblical story. God decided not to kill the pharoh but all the first born Egyptians, little children and all. That was of course after he had killed all the cattle. Ths is inspiational for you?
One might also consider the fact that Christinaity was used to justify slavery in the first place.
Some quotes you might find useful:
"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts" - Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America

"Every hope of the existence of church and state, and of civilization itself, hangs upon our arduous effort to defeat the doctrine of Negro suffrage - "Robert Dabney, a prominent 19th century Southern Presbyterian pastor
"the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example - "Richard Furman, President, South Carolina Baptist Convention
perhaps you could tell us why there is a commandment against graven images but no commandment against slavery?
Why is blapshmey against the holy spirit and unforgivable sin but slavery is forgivable?

[RonD1120 62]

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Anyone who think the Exodus is a good inspiration for people needs their head examined. Lets remember what happened in that biblical story. God decided not to kill the pharoh but all the first born Egyptians, little children and all. That was of course after he had killed all the cattle. Ths is inspiational for you?
One might also consider the fact that Christinaity was used to justify slavery in the first place.
Some quotes you might find useful:
"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts" - Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America

"Every hope of the existence of church and state, and of civilization itself, hangs upon our arduous effort to defeat the doctrine of Negro suffrage - "Robert Dabney, a prominent 19th century Southern Presbyterian pastor
"the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example - "Richard Furman, President, South Carolina Baptist Convention
perhaps you could tell us why there is a commandment against graven images but no commandment against slavery?
Why is blapshmey against the holy spirit and unforgivable sin but slavery is forgivable?

So, you disagree with the author, a black female, and the message she wrote to her American racial peers. Furthermore, you disagree with the tactics of the Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and his civil rights movement.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[philh 0]

I diagree with the article you posted, what idfference oes it make whether its written by a black female or a hwite male? Judging the content of ana rticle by the colour of the skin of the author rather than its quality is simply racism, is that what you are suggetsing?
Im not criticising Martin Luthers Kings non violent methods. if you knew anyhting about what you were taking about you would know King was advised to use non violent methods by Bayuard Rustin who was a communist. So if you want some glosry to Christianity becuase MArtin Luther King was a Christiain, you should also dish it out the the communists becuase Betrand Rustin was a communist.

[Coreece 190]

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I'll be the one laughing when you've wasted your whole life trying to please an entity that is non-existent, and I lived for myself.

So you're gonna be laughing at people in the after life?

do you believe in reincarnation?

maybe you're the next winston!

Winston is laughing at you....

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[maadmax 0]

Concerning the original post, Jesus appeared to care little about changing the corrupt Roman government of His time. He made it very clear that His Kingdom was not of this world. I for one, definitely want to keep the government out of my faith. The value of Christianity lies in its power to regenerate and restore the soul to God, not in running some political system.

[Meso 38]

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So you're gonna be laughing at people in the after life?

do you believe in reincarnation?

maybe you're the next winston!

Metaphorically speaking of course.

Though I'll just get the laughing over and done with now instead then. ;)

[kallend 2,117]

Republicans vs Secular America

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/feb/23/republicans-religion-secular-america

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

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Concerning the original post, Jesus appeared to care little about changing the corrupt Roman government of His time. He made it very clear that His Kingdom was not of this world. I for one, definitely want to keep the government out of my faith. The value of Christianity lies in its power to regenerate and restore the soul to God, not in running some political system.

Excellent, good words.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.