War Veteran speakes out

[Tony-tonysuits 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0P9xMKrp8&feature=player_embedded

Life is a series of wonderful opportunities,
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.

tonysuits.com

[Tony-tonysuits 0]

I have an idea.... how bout we make war absolutely and totally unacceptable,

We're all brought up to believe in it,

With a little work we can change that,

We can make the war lords see that its a bad bad thing ,
don't you agree?

Life is a series of wonderful opportunities,
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.

tonysuits.com

[christelsabine 1]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0P9xMKrp8&feature=player_embedded

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[nanook 1]

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I have an idea.... how bout we make war absolutely and totally unacceptable,

How do you propose to make the other side think of war as absolutely and totally unacceptable?

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[BillyVance 35]

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I have an idea.... how bout we make war absolutely and totally unacceptable,

How do you propose to make the other side think of war as absolutely and totally unacceptable?

easy, nuke the fuck out of them.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[nanook 1]

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I have an idea.... how bout we make war absolutely and totally unacceptable,

How do you propose to make the other side think of war as absolutely and totally unacceptable?

easy, nuke the fuck out of them.

Worked before.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>How do you propose to make the other side think of war as absolutely
>and totally unacceptable?

Make it real to them (and us.)

It's easy to nuke the fuck out of strangers, harder to do it to your friends and family.

[DiverMike 5]

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How do you propose to make the other side think of war as absolutely and totally unacceptable?

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easy, nuke the fuck out of them.
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Worked before.

That is sooo wrong and yet sooo right.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[nanook 1]

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Make it real to them (and us.)

How would we go about doing this?

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I can't watch YouTube video's on this computer I am using now (sites like YouTube are blocked), so I will need to watch it later at home. But as sad as this may sound, I think we are living in a pipe dream if people ever think war will end. The strong have always preyed on the weak, and the not so weak fight back. People die ... it's been like this for thousands of years.

One thing I am sure of though is that many of us (myself included) have never experienced war up front and personal and those of us who have not experienced war do not have the same understanding as those who have been there. It is easy for me to fire up my "Call of Duty" games and experience the chaos of battle, but it's no biggie when I die. I just hit re-set. Because of this, I am fairly aggressive in those games. But I was watching a YouTube video the other night of some recent real world raw combat footage and it was interesting. The US soldiers had cornered some guy in a building. In my "Call of Duty" game I would just throw a frag in, storm the building and shoot the enemy dead. But in real life, you could tell the real fear of possible death in these soldiers actions. Eventually they got the guy, but it took a while. We think one shot is all that is needed to get the enemy, but the reality is that soldiers usually (on average) expend thousands of rounds just for one kill. Over the years, I have not paid much attention to the damage done in Iraq, but after watching some of the video recently I can see much of the country is in ruins thanks to this war.

War is hell (at least this is what we are told), but I can't see it going away anytime soon. However it would be nice if politicians stopped using it as a tool. We are lucky in North America, the US civil war was the last time a big conflict took place on North American soil.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 3,120]

>How would we go about doing this?

Get out of our own countries. Live with other people. See them as real, not just names on a map. Learn that they're pretty much like us, that they're not just a bunch of "lazy Haitians who don't want to work", "Japs with a heart as black as Tojo" or "extremist Muslims who hate us for our freedoms."

The Peace Corps program is one of the more important programs out there in this regard. Not just because it provides a source of needed volunteer labor - but because the people who come back from those programs can no longer see the people they lived with as just places on a map.

A fiction that is needed during any war is that "we are doing the right thing" and "there's no other way to deal with them." Make "we" and "them" more interchangeable, and there's no way to fool yourself into believing them any more.

[nanook 1]

I have this general opinion: War is an extreme; it is not sustainable. Peace is an extreme; it is not sustainable.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I have this general opinion: War is an extreme; it is not sustainable. Peace is an extreme; it is not sustainable.

History has proven you correct.
But be that as it may, there is no reason not to pursue a sustainable peace.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Gawain 0]

Prysner...a member of the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

Scroll down here to see parts of his record. He was a Imagery Ground Station operator...he likely never left the FOB.
http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=140740.html

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[nanook 1]

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I have this general opinion: War is an extreme; it is not sustainable. Peace is an extreme; it is not sustainable.

History has proven you correct.
But be that as it may, there is no reason not to pursue a sustainable peace.

Do not disagree at all.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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>How would we go about doing this?

Get out of our own countries. Live with other people. See them as real, not just names on a map. Learn that they're pretty much like us, that they're not just a bunch of "lazy Haitians who don't want to work", "Japs with a heart as black as Tojo" or "extremist Muslims who hate us for our freedoms."

How does that have any impact on leaders of those countries deciding to engage in war? It may make us more reluctant to initiate, but we're already fairly reluctant to do so, barring they actually attack us.

Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't address the problem that there are Haves and Have Nots, and war has been the traditional way to alter the makeup of those groups.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Prysner...a member of the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

Scroll down here to see parts of his record. He was a Imagery Ground Station operator...he likely never left the FOB.
http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=140740.html

Thxs for the 411 ... now I know not to waste any time watching this fellow's video.

PS: If I am not mistaken you are a veteran and you did pay a pretty big price for your efforts. I will take your word on combat before I take the word of someone from the "Party for Socialism and Liberation".

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 3,120]

>How does that have any impact on leaders of those countries deciding
>to engage in war?

In my experience, getting to know people from other countries makes it less likely that anyone (even leaders) will make decisions that lead to their deaths.

>Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't
>address the problem that there are Haves and Have Nots . . . .

That, to me, is akin to saying:

Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't address the problem that there are christians and muslims.

Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't address the problem that there are whites and blacks.

Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't address the problem that there are capitalists and communists.

It's sort of an oxymoron. Yes, there are whites and blacks - and they are more similar than they are different. Yes, there are haves and have nots - and they are more similar than they are different.

And yes, war has traditionally been a way to "solve" all the above "problems." It's easier to wage war when you believe it's "us vs. them" and it's easier to think that when you draw a line between "us" and "them." Call it the black/white line or the have/have not line.

Eliminate the importance people place on that line by showing people that it's just not very significant, and you've solved much of the problem.

[christelsabine 1]

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....
How does that have any impact on leaders of those countries deciding to engage in war? It may make us more reluctant to initiate, but we're already fairly reluctant to do so, barring they actually attack us.

Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't address the problem that there are Haves and Have Nots, and war has been the traditional way to alter the makeup of those groups.

It surely will have impact, have a look at China and its students fighting for (something like a) free speech - at least free internet access, disabled actually but, they're not giving up.

We, you and me f. e., will not change a lot. But, let folks get out, get in touch with other countries, cultures, other faces which, in fact are the same like yours.

Opposition against war aims will disturb, influence long-ranged war intentions.

We should not underestimate folks' intelligence. Just give it more time.

Yes, I know that sounds like little Susie's good night fairy-tale.

F.e.: Even the world press actually is no more reporting about riots in Iran, there still is opposion. Since years. One day, they'll succeed. Like the Chinese students.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[jgoose71 0]

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>How does that have any impact on leaders of those countries deciding
>to engage in war?

In my experience, getting to know people from other countries makes it less likely that anyone (even leaders) will make decisions that lead to their deaths.

>Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't
>address the problem that there are Haves and Have Nots . . . .

That, to me, is akin to saying:

Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't address the problem that there are christians and muslims.

Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't address the problem that there are whites and blacks.

Knowing that people everywhere are basically the same doesn't address the problem that there are capitalists and communists.

It's sort of an oxymoron. Yes, there are whites and blacks - and they are more similar than they are different. Yes, there are haves and have nots - and they are more similar than they are different.

And yes, war has traditionally been a way to "solve" all the above "problems." It's easier to wage war when you believe it's "us vs. them" and it's easier to think that when you draw a line between "us" and "them." Call it the black/white line or the have/have not line.

Eliminate the importance people place on that line by showing people that it's just not very significant, and you've solved much of the problem.

And in my experience to have a dialog with someone, you have to be able to talk to them with out them trying to video tape themselves cutting your head off.

You are still under the ASSumption that there is no evil in the world. Until we can convince Al Qada and the Taliban to stop teaching people to walk around with bombs strapped to themselves ready to detonate as soon as they see a foreigner, it's going to be tough.

I do believe in the Peace Corps, doctors without borders, and the whole lot of great organizations. But there is no way they can operate in the current environment that is the middle east. How long do you think an american civilian organization would last in iraq before the building was blown up and everyone taken hostage?

We have been trying to build schools, provide medical care, feed orphans, and a whole bunch of other stuff, but evil and hate are what are being used by the insurgents to hold on to power and until they are ready to let go of the idea that the only good american is a headless one, it's hard to take the first steps to peace.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 3,120]

>You are still under the ASSumption that there is no evil in the world.

Of course there is evil in the world. We see it every day and we deal with it every day. But we can deal with a Timothy McVeigh without going to war with New York, where he was born and raised. The very idea is absurd - because we see New York as part of ourselves. Why kill our own people?

Now, if his name had been Muhammad Al-Absim, you can bet that we'd be all over taking out "them." And if some other people get killed? Well, better THEM than US.

>But there is no way they can operate in the current environment that is
>the middle east. How long do you think an american civilian organization
>would last in iraq before the building was blown up and everyone taken
>hostage?

About as long as it would have taken for an Iraqi civilian organization to be destroyed by a US bomber during one of the wars we waged there. But again, that's an unavoidable and regrettable part of war when we do it. After all, we're right - and better THEM than US.

>We have been trying to build schools, provide medical care, feed
>orphans, and a whole bunch of other stuff, but evil and hate are what are
>being used by the insurgents to hold on to power and until they are ready
>to let go of the idea that the only good american is a headless one, it's
>hard to take the first steps to peace.

It's even harder when people's conceptions of the Middle East are based on the terrorists there.

Terrorism is a huge problem in the world. We've had terrorism from the US, from the IRA, from the Tamil Tigers, from Al Qaeda and from the Taliban. We've had plenty of wars based on eradicating those groups. Has it ever worked?

[rhys 0]

Wow Tony that was gut wrenching. I'm glad to hear such wisdom.

For the 'schmoke ‘em’ out' crowd, one should lead by example.

There 'is' a flipside to the coin and there 'is' imminent danger from groups that wish to harm others sometimes for no apparent reason and sometimes from provocation and occupation. We all learned what happed when you poke a bully in the shoulder in primary school!

Coherent, respectful, and diplomatic answers exist for any conflict or plight, we as humans all share the desire to live and breath without pain and suffering, for ourselves individually that is!

It’s about time we consider everybody’s right to exist, isn't it! Whatever little naughty signatures have been signed into law, the basic human rights should not be violated, we are tricked into thinking there is not enough resources by the Billionaires selling the story, but in reality it is them that have all the resources tied up in their own selfish efforts!

Cut Backwater and Halliburton (only to skim the slag off the top) and such companies, condemn them and hold them accountable for any unlawful activity along with the government and private sector 'insiders' that have been directly complicit in the actions and atrocities. You will find this would inject the ‘lost’ finances you ‘need’, and create the jobs and resources to do great things for all.

Instead of contracting one company for 20 billion dollars, contract 1000 companies at 20 million dollars! the growth of industry would be unprecedented and the wealth would be spread more thouroughly, Oh and you could also start by spending it on your own country not the rest of the world, because you also spent $trillions destroyed it!

It's not rocket science?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Lucky... 0]

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I have an idea.... how bout we make war absolutely and totally unacceptable,

How do you propose to make the other side think of war as absolutely and totally unacceptable?

Same kind of garbage Reagan fed us when he told us the USSR wanted to defeat us, even tho we were feeding them a lot of their grain, the USSR had little ability to reach out and touch and the USSR had all they could handle with Afghanistan. Just keep an enemy visible and make them viable via lies and we can keep the idiot machine turning out garbage.

[Lucky... 0]

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I have an idea.... how bout we make war absolutely and totally unacceptable,

How do you propose to make the other side think of war as absolutely and totally unacceptable?

easy, nuke the fuck out of them.

The thing is that we nuked the fuck out of women and children; they weren't in a position to be made aware of anything. That was teh US' most cowardly act since the fleecing of the American Indians.

[Lucky... 0]

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>How would we go about doing this?

Get out of our own countries. Live with other people. See them as real, not just names on a map. Learn that they're pretty much like us, that they're not just a bunch of "lazy Haitians who don't want to work", "Japs with a heart as black as Tojo" or "extremist Muslims who hate us for our freedoms."

The Peace Corps program is one of the more important programs out there in this regard. Not just because it provides a source of needed volunteer labor - but because the people who come back from those programs can no longer see the people they lived with as just places on a map.

A fiction that is needed during any war is that "we are doing the right thing" and "there's no other way to deal with them." Make "we" and "them" more interchangeable, and there's no way to fool yourself into believing them any more.

America is the best and only country in the world; you're a terrorist, Bill.