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billvon 3,118
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>Well, seems like, I recall some folks saying that gasses given-off by
>cattle were the problem.
If that's the case then they're greatly exaggerating. Greenhouse gases given off by cattle (CH4, CO2 and NOx) are only a small part of the overall issue. For example, cattle contribute only 9% to the amount of CO2 we produce, and 37% of the methane (less than half.)
It is an issue, but not close to the biggest one.
>As long as there is a demand for beef and leather as well as fertilizer,
> bone meal and etc., we're going to have cattle.
Agreed. Being a little smarter about how we raise them (i.e. fewer factory farms raising corn- and waste-fed beef) will help there. Eliminating cattle is a silly solution.
> Mother Earth has never had this kind of pressure put on her.
Agreed there, and I think that's the root of the problem. Nature can handle some CO2, some methane, some NOx, some demand on water, some pollution and deal with it just fine. It just can't handle the results of billions of people who want cheap steaks every night.
>cattle were the problem.
If that's the case then they're greatly exaggerating. Greenhouse gases given off by cattle (CH4, CO2 and NOx) are only a small part of the overall issue. For example, cattle contribute only 9% to the amount of CO2 we produce, and 37% of the methane (less than half.)
It is an issue, but not close to the biggest one.
>As long as there is a demand for beef and leather as well as fertilizer,
> bone meal and etc., we're going to have cattle.
Agreed. Being a little smarter about how we raise them (i.e. fewer factory farms raising corn- and waste-fed beef) will help there. Eliminating cattle is a silly solution.
> Mother Earth has never had this kind of pressure put on her.
Agreed there, and I think that's the root of the problem. Nature can handle some CO2, some methane, some NOx, some demand on water, some pollution and deal with it just fine. It just can't handle the results of billions of people who want cheap steaks every night.
kallend 2,148
QuoteQuoteQuote
It does not necessitate a full review. However, the fact that it took two years is troublesome. I wonder what policies were already in place that resulted from this error?
It took over 200 years to show that Newton was wrong. Einstein is such a sluggard.
You are grasping, John.
We can all grasp that your statement was silly.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
What statement? That perhaps policies were put in place based upon something that was not only inaccurate but contained contradictory information?
Apparently, that sort of thing never happens.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Apparently, that sort of thing never happens.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Quote>Well, seems like, I recall some folks saying that gasses given-off by
>cattle were the problem.
If that's the case then they're greatly exaggerating. Greenhouse gases given off by cattle (CH4, CO2 and NOx) are only a small part of the overall issue. For example, cattle contribute only 9% to the amount of CO2 we produce, and 37% of the methane (less than half.)
It is an issue, but not close to the biggest one.
>As long as there is a demand for beef and leather as well as fertilizer,
> bone meal and etc., we're going to have cattle.
Agreed. Being a little smarter about how we raise them (i.e. fewer factory farms raising corn- and waste-fed beef) will help there. Eliminating cattle is a silly solution.
> Mother Earth has never had this kind of pressure put on her.
Agreed there, and I think that's the root of the problem. Nature can handle some CO2, some methane, some NOx, some demand on water, some pollution and deal with it just fine. It just can't handle the results of billions of people who want cheap steaks every night.
I think, thta right there is the problem... too many people! As for cheap steaks... have you priced beef lately?
Corn is too expensive (ethynol caused that little price-hike) to feed to cattle. Most cattle I've seen are pastured in the summer months and fed grass bales in the winter. The feed-lots fatten the cattle before slaughter. They might feed some corn.
I've heard that on t.v. news and right here on these very forums about cattle and their 'gas emissions'.
As for water, Maybe, fewer swimming pools that folks have, mostly for looks or more folks cutting-back on lawn watering as examples. Water is just something else people have taken for granted. For an example, because big cities like Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston and etc. are running low, they are wanting what little water we have here in West Texas. We've been in a drought situation for over 13-yrs. As a result, the court battles are just beginning.
All of this could've been prevented a lon time ago if, people had just thought about the future instead of just for 'today'. We've done it to ourselves and now, we're in 'panic mode'.
Chuck
billvon 3,118
> As for cheap steaks... have you priced beef lately?
Well, when you can get a triple whopper for $4.19 - that's 3/4 of a pound of beef and 1230 calories - that sounds pretty cheap to me.
>Corn is too expensive (ethynol caused that little price-hike) to feed to cattle.
Good! They'll have to eat grass for the duration of their lives, which is what they evolved to eat. Fewer sick cows, fewer antibiotics needed, less total farmland, fuel and fertilizer needed to support each cow. More expensive meat, since they won't finish as quickly on grass. But if that means a $6 three quarter pounder instead of a $4 three quarter pounder - that doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.
> For an example, because big cities like Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston and
>etc. are running low, they are wanting what little water we have here in
>West Texas. We've been in a drought situation for over 13-yrs. As a
>result, the court battles are just beginning.
Yep. We've been having those battles here for decades. We use the entire Colorado river nowadays, and are using so much water from Northern California that we're starting to suck salt water into the river pumping station intakes. And everyone still wants a big lawn and a swimming pool.
>All of this could've been prevented a lon time ago if, people had just
>thought about the future instead of just for 'today'. We've done it to
>ourselves and now, we're in 'panic mode'.
Definitely. I hope that even while we're in panic mode we can make decisions that will help ease the problems in 20 years - not just next month.
Well, when you can get a triple whopper for $4.19 - that's 3/4 of a pound of beef and 1230 calories - that sounds pretty cheap to me.
>Corn is too expensive (ethynol caused that little price-hike) to feed to cattle.
Good! They'll have to eat grass for the duration of their lives, which is what they evolved to eat. Fewer sick cows, fewer antibiotics needed, less total farmland, fuel and fertilizer needed to support each cow. More expensive meat, since they won't finish as quickly on grass. But if that means a $6 three quarter pounder instead of a $4 three quarter pounder - that doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.
> For an example, because big cities like Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston and
>etc. are running low, they are wanting what little water we have here in
>West Texas. We've been in a drought situation for over 13-yrs. As a
>result, the court battles are just beginning.
Yep. We've been having those battles here for decades. We use the entire Colorado river nowadays, and are using so much water from Northern California that we're starting to suck salt water into the river pumping station intakes. And everyone still wants a big lawn and a swimming pool.
>All of this could've been prevented a lon time ago if, people had just
>thought about the future instead of just for 'today'. We've done it to
>ourselves and now, we're in 'panic mode'.
Definitely. I hope that even while we're in panic mode we can make decisions that will help ease the problems in 20 years - not just next month.
Quote> As for cheap steaks... have you priced beef lately?
Well, when you can get a triple whopper for $4.19 - that's 3/4 of a pound of beef and 1230 calories - that sounds pretty cheap to me.
>Corn is too expensive (ethynol caused that little price-hike) to feed to cattle.
Good! They'll have to eat grass for the duration of their lives, which is what they evolved to eat. Fewer sick cows, fewer antibiotics needed, less total farmland, fuel and fertilizer needed to support each cow. More expensive meat, since they won't finish as quickly on grass. But if that means a $6 three quarter pounder instead of a $4 three quarter pounder - that doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.
> For an example, because big cities like Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston and
>etc. are running low, they are wanting what little water we have here in
>West Texas. We've been in a drought situation for over 13-yrs. As a
>result, the court battles are just beginning.
Yep. We've been having those battles here for decades. We use the entire Colorado river nowadays, and are using so much water from Northern California that we're starting to suck salt water into the river pumping station intakes. And everyone still wants a big lawn and a swimming pool.
>All of this could've been prevented a lon time ago if, people had just
>thought about the future instead of just for 'today'. We've done it to
>ourselves and now, we're in 'panic mode'.
Definitely. I hope that even while we're in panic mode we can make decisions that will help ease the problems in 20 years - not just next month.
I thought you said 'cheap steaks'... not cheap hamburger meat. Do you know how many acres it takes to graze one cow? Once again, too many people encroaching on farm and ranch land.
Me too! Going by our track record... it don't look good. We can still hope.
Chuck
billvon 3,118
>I thought you said 'cheap steaks'... not cheap hamburger meat.
Sorry, should have said "cheap beef." As you mentioned, we use a lot of each cow.
>Once again, too many people encroaching on farm and ranch land.
Yep. It's hard to strike a balance between personal freedoms and planning for the future, but today we see the result of not addressing those issues up front.
Sorry, should have said "cheap beef." As you mentioned, we use a lot of each cow.
>Once again, too many people encroaching on farm and ranch land.
Yep. It's hard to strike a balance between personal freedoms and planning for the future, but today we see the result of not addressing those issues up front.
Quote>I thought you said 'cheap steaks'... not cheap hamburger meat.
Sorry, should have said "cheap beef." As you mentioned, we use a lot of each cow.
That's fine. I'll go for for that.
>Once again, too many people encroaching on farm and ranch land.
Yep. It's hard to strike a balance between personal freedoms and planning for the future, but today we see the result of not addressing those issues up front.
That's the truth!!!
Chuck
jcd11235 0
This whole 'global warming/climate change' thing reminds me of other things scientists have told us. First, something is good or bad for us. Time passes and some other scientist comes out with new findings that something is now good/bad for us. Sure does tend to maintain confusion.
Chuck
Chuck
QuoteThis whole 'global warming/climate change' thing reminds me of other things scientists have told us. First, something is good or bad for us. Time passes and some other scientist comes out with new findings that something is now good/bad for us. Sure does tend to maintain confusion.
Not to worry Chuck
Thanks to the United Nation's "Agenda 21", soon the state will be doing your thinking for you. They will tell you where you can live, they will tell you where you can travel, they will tell you what job you will be doing, they will tell you how you will get to and from your home/job on their green public transit system. They will tell you what information is acceptable "Climate Friendly" reading and what information is unhealthy and not sustainable. They will even tell you not to worry about raising your children because they will be all too happy to raise your children for you while you are off working at your green job. Every aspect of your life will be under their control. It's called the "Sustainable Economy all in an attempt to control Climate Change". Go to University, the professors there will be all too happy to tell you about it. In fact you do not even need to attend University anymore if you happen to be a young child. Tomorrow's adults are being educated today on how important the "Sustainable Economy is towards controlling Climate Change". The future of the world's climate is dependent on the ability of the state to evaluate the skills of your child at as early age as possible.
Once again Chuck, no need to worry about being confused. The state has all the "Climate Change" answers for you and they will be there to manage every aspect of your life in the most economically sustainable climate friendly manner from the cradle to your grave. It will be bliss, and the best part is nobody will be left behind. Everyone will be equal, equally screwed.
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
billvon 3,118
>This whole 'global warming/climate change' thing reminds me of other >things scientists have told us.. . . Sure does tend to maintain confusion.
Yep. One thing that helps with that is to figure out who's talking. If it's a Newsweek reporter going for a sensational story, or an oil company scientist trying to reassure nervous shareholders, you may not be getting the whole story. Peer-reviewed journals are a great place to find less political science, and there are several summaries out there (science news for example) that just summarize research rather than "make news" or sell shares of their company. (And they're more readable than Science or Nature.)
Yep. One thing that helps with that is to figure out who's talking. If it's a Newsweek reporter going for a sensational story, or an oil company scientist trying to reassure nervous shareholders, you may not be getting the whole story. Peer-reviewed journals are a great place to find less political science, and there are several summaries out there (science news for example) that just summarize research rather than "make news" or sell shares of their company. (And they're more readable than Science or Nature.)
DanG 1
What the fuck are you talking about?
- Dan G
- Dan G
Well, seems like, I recall some folks saying that gasses given-off by cattle were the problem.
I really blew that one! That's what... 7th. grade science? Plant life gives-off oxygen... people give-off carbon dioxide! I should be stood in a corner for that one.
As long as there is a demand for beef and leather as well as fertilizer, bone meal and etc., we're going to have cattle. I know, the vegans don't like that idea. I think that a lot of folks are going off the deep end on some of this. We need some common sense about it. Mother Earth has never had this kind of pressure put on her.
Chuck
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