The latest buyoff in the health care deal

[kelpdiver 2]

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The president has told lawmakers he wants the tax on high-cost plans included in the legislation to help rein in costs. But that position courted conflict with labor leaders who feared exposing their membership to higher taxes. In a significant victory for unions, the 40 percent excise tax would not apply to policies covering workers in collective bargaining agreements, state and local workers, and members of voluntary employee benefit associations through Dec. 31, 2017.

The buy offs continue. This was a hard task to begin with, but but sacrificing any sort of integrity, he's turning into a complete disaster. The pain of this transition should be shared by all.

[jgoose71 0]

With all the closed door bribes, special deal, and special interests groups that are involved with this, it is sure to be a real deal for a special few and a nightmare for the rest of the country.

Luckily, the mid term elections are coming real soon. I hope all the democrats are paying attention to what is going on in Massachusetts. Republicans aren't even supposed to come close in that state much less take a lead.

If you ask me, this health care negotiation is the total 100% exact opposite of the change I thought I could believe in. So are all the bribes and special deals going out Bush's fault?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[mnealtx 0]

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So are all the bribes and special deals going out Bush's fault?

Didn't you get the memo? ANYTHING bad is the fault of the Republicans, and anything GOOD is the work of the Dems.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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Luckily, the mid term elections are coming real soon. I hope all the democrats are paying attention to what is going on in Massachusetts. Republicans aren't even supposed to come close in that state much less take a lead.

For those in Political Science, it will be very interesting next year to review 2009-2010. (less interesting for those who can only view it on an emotional level) But no conclusions can be made until we see the election results in November.

Hillary Clinton's experience in 1993 is a cautionary tale about the consequences of trying to 'fix' health care. But Obama believed that he had a narrow window of opportunity (political capital, GOP's demise, 60 Senators) to get something done now (even if it doesn't actually take effect until he's been thrown out). Bush used his 9/11 window to take out Saddam, but then tried for too much with nation building, and that decision will forever tarnish his Administration.

The GOP was in complete shambles and I saw little reason to believe it would recover until at least 2012. But the ongoing recession and the missteps by the Obama Administration has brought them to life, merely by existing as a contrast. I still believe they need leadership to take advantage, and I think it needs to be new leadership, not Newt, or Romney, or Rush types.

[mnealtx 0]

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Luckily, the mid term elections are coming real soon. I hope all the democrats are paying attention to what is going on in Massachusetts. Republicans aren't even supposed to come close in that state much less take a lead.

For those in Political Science, it will be very interesting next year to review 2009-2010. (less interesting for those who can only view it on an emotional level) But no conclusions can be made until we see the election results in November.

Hillary Clinton's experience in 1993 is a cautionary tale about the consequences of trying to 'fix' health care. But Obama believed that he had a narrow window of opportunity (political capital, GOP's demise, 60 Senators) to get something done now (even if it doesn't actually take effect until he's been thrown out). Bush used his 9/11 window to take out Saddam, but then tried for too much with nation building, and that decision will forever tarnish his Administration.

The GOP was in complete shambles and I saw little reason to believe it would recover until at least 2012. But the ongoing recession and the missteps by the Obama Administration has brought them to life, merely by existing as a contrast. I still believe they need leadership to take advantage, and I think it needs to be new leadership, not Newt, or Romney, or Rush types.

Well said.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,150]

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Luckily, the mid term elections are coming real soon. I hope all the democrats are paying attention to what is going on in Massachusetts. Republicans aren't even supposed to come close in that state much less take a lead.

For those in Political Science, it will be very interesting next year to review 2009-2010. (less interesting for those who can only view it on an emotional level) But no conclusions can be made until we see the election results in November.

Hillary Clinton's experience in 1993 is a cautionary tale about the consequences of trying to 'fix' health care. But Obama believed that he had a narrow window of opportunity (political capital, GOP's demise, 60 Senators) to get something done now (even if it doesn't actually take effect until he's been thrown out). Bush used his 9/11 window to take out Saddam, but then tried for too much with nation building, and that decision will forever tarnish his Administration.

The GOP was in complete shambles and I saw little reason to believe it would recover until at least 2012. But the ongoing recession and the missteps by the Obama Administration has brought them to life, merely by existing as a contrast. I still believe they need leadership to take advantage, and I think it needs to be new leadership, not Newt, or Romney, or Rush types.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

If this healthcare reform is so good for America, then why do all these entities need exemptions or political bribes, etc.

Proof in the pudding that it's a load of bull.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ridestrong 1]

This whole thing has turned into one big scheming, wheeling and dealing bucket of shit...

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[kelpdiver 2]

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If this healthcare reform is so good for America, then why do all these entities need exemptions or political bribes, etc.

It's so hard to defend that none of the big fans of HC reform here have even tried.

[rushmc 23]

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If this healthcare reform is so good for America, then why do all these entities need exemptions or political bribes, etc.

It's so hard to defend that none of the big fans of HC reform here have even tried.

Been reading a lot in the last few hours

This may be the straw

Time will tell

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[georgerussia 0]

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The buy offs continue. This was a hard task to begin with, but but sacrificing any sort of integrity, he's turning into a complete disaster. The pain of this transition should be shared by all.

I agree, and this indeed sucks.
Will write my Congresswomen and Senators offices.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Lucky... 0]

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The president has told lawmakers he wants the tax on high-cost plans included in the legislation to help rein in costs. But that position courted conflict with labor leaders who feared exposing their membership to higher taxes. In a significant victory for unions, the 40 percent excise tax would not apply to policies covering workers in collective bargaining agreements, state and local workers, and members of voluntary employee benefit associations through Dec. 31, 2017.

The buy offs continue. This was a hard task to begin with, but but sacrificing any sort of integrity, he's turning into a complete disaster. The pain of this transition should be shared by all.

I know, the pain and despair was silent under the millions w/o a voice who didn't have HC; couldn't we have just lived under the guise of everyone being happy?

[Lucky... 0]

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So are all the bribes and special deals going out Bush's fault?

Didn't you get the memo? ANYTHING bad is the fault of the Republicans, and anything GOOD is the work of the Dems.

List all of the positive things the R's have done over the last few decades.

[Lucky... 0]

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...60 Senators...

Yea, Lieberman is a real Dem

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Hillary Clinton's experience in 1993 is a cautionary tale about the consequences of trying to 'fix' health care.

Yea, if something is badly broken and a fix would be politically devastating, I say we ignore it. Too bad Lincoln didn't have the same mentality.

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Bush used his 9/11 window to take out Saddam,...

What an accomplishment, everything is way different with SH gone.

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...but then tried for too much with nation building, and that decision will forever tarnish his Administration.

Yea, it wasn't Katrina, the mortgage mess, the overall wasted economy, fucking labor, the 5 T debt increase while leaving a > 1 T annual deficit, freefalling unemployment, and so many other gaffs.

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The GOP is still in complete shambles and I saw little reason to believe it would recover until at least 2012.

Fixed it. Even tho the Dems are not doing as well as they were, the bad news for Rs is that the R's are doing worse. Don't think anyone is sitting around saying, "golly gee, I wish the Republicans were back in power."

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But the ongoing recession...

The inherited recession and recovery that has been ahead of schedule, but not the 2 weeks teh Rs demand.

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...and the missteps by the Obama Administration has brought them to life...

Which?

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I still believe they need leadership to take advantage, and I think it needs to be new leadership, not Newt, or Romney, or Rush types.

Still dry, tired, tax cuts my friends type morons tho, right? The RW is boring, just more 'give it all to teh rich and we'll be fine' rhetoric, I don't care what the clown, it's the same message. What message do you think would work?

[Lucky... 0]

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If this healthcare reform is so good for America, then why do all these entities need exemptions or political bribes, etc.

Proof in the pudding that it's a load of bull.

I wonder if teh same was said about emancipation and the Civil War? Yea, bet so, so needed change leaves a blody trail.

[Lucky... 0]

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This whole thing has turned into one big scheming, wheeling and dealing bucket of shit...

And it started as a ....... (repeat what was said). Only in fascist America can we ignore such sufferring and advocate apathy.

[Lucky... 0]

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If this healthcare reform is so good for America, then why do all these entities need exemptions or political bribes, etc.

It's so hard to defend that none of the big fans of HC reform here have even tried.

From the party of:

- Let's hang Clinton for getting a BJ and lying to congress

TO

- Let's commute/pardon Libby for lying about revealing a federal agent's identy to congress

Dude, your BS carries no weight here, when ya excuse your own and want to hang others, it just falls to teh BS that it is.

[Lucky... 0]

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Quote

Quote

If this healthcare reform is so good for America, then why do all these entities need exemptions or political bribes, etc.

It's so hard to defend that none of the big fans of HC reform here have even tried.

Been reading a lot in the last few hours

This may be the straw

Time will tell

The problem is that even if you think you have made some lame case for something, the alternative is your putrid party, which is viewed several times lower than any Democrat.

[Gawain 0]

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If this healthcare reform is so good for America, then why do all these entities need exemptions or political bribes, etc.

Proof in the pudding that it's a load of bull.

I wonder if teh same was said about emancipation and the Civil War? Yea, bet so, so needed change leaves a blody trail.

I'm sorry, but until you can cite a source from wiki or the Onion to back your play, it just doesn't ring through Lucky...check your history and learn that the Civil War was not just about slavery. Though I don't think the Onion will help you with that. Go check and see if there's a voc-rehab rep at the VA who can hook you up with a library card.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If this healthcare reform is so good for America, then why do all these entities need exemptions or political bribes, etc.

It's so hard to defend that none of the big fans of HC reform here have even tried.

From the party of:

- Let's hang Clinton for getting a BJ and lying to congress

TO

- Let's commute/pardon Libby for lying about revealing a federal agent's identy to congress

Dude, your BS carries no weight here, when ya excuse your own and want to hang others, it just falls to teh BS that it is.

Pot, meet kettle. Man, that's right up there with "full VA benes" and "single term"....

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[lawrocket 3]

I like your thinking.

I'll paraphrase: "Republicans suck ass. Therefore, Democrats can do no wrong."

You find zero fault with the act. It's awesome if the Democrats exempt corporations from taxation. It's horrible if Republicans do it.

When a Republican acts like a Republican you hate it. When a Republican acts like a Democrat you hate it. When a Democrat acts like a Republican you applaud it. When a Democrat acts like a Democrat you applaud it.

Isn't it interesting, however, that unions are supposed to be fighting for the workers against corporations? Now they are fighting with a federal government dominated by Democrats.

The unions could easily exempt their employees by negotiating shit-lousy health plans or signing emoployees and union-members up for the government health plans. The employees will be stoked at how awesome these plans are.

Right?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[champu 1]

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The president has told lawmakers he wants the tax on high-cost plans included in the legislation to help rein in costs. But that position courted conflict with labor leaders who feared exposing their membership to higher taxes. In a significant victory for unions, the 40 percent excise tax would not apply to policies covering workers in collective bargaining agreements, state and local workers, and members of voluntary employee benefit associations through Dec. 31, 2017.

Yay! Now joining a union is a tax dodge. As the article said, a significant victory for the unions.

How many people are projected to be hit with this tax at this point? And how many total dollars worth of health coverage are going to be taxed? (they've bumped up the family threshold, exempted people in high-risk jobs, and now they've exempted anyone in union jobs)

[mnealtx 0]

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Yay! Now joining a union is a tax dodge. As the article said, a significant victory for the unions.

So, we've got what, now? The Louisiana Purchase, the Cornhusker Kickback and the Labor Union Loophole?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

Actually,an amendment proposed by Senator Menendez of New Jersey proposes a top marginal tax rate of 74% (and minimum of 48%) on wages of strikebreakers (aka "scabs") in order to pay for health benefits of striking workers.

Also, in order to make up for the loss of payments, the amendment also provides a marginal "fee" of 24% on employees who are not working under a collective bargaining agreement to cover the loss.

The good news is that the "fee" on non-union workers has a safe harbor provision - in the event that workers organize prior to December 31, 2011, the will not be taxed. Furthermore, their employers will be responsible for refunding the amount of 24% tax paid by the workers for calendar year 2010-2011.

There will also be a "downsizing tax" on businesses that will be non-dischargeable and equal to 4 years of gross-receipts of the business. A certificate of payment of this tax issued by the Department of Labor shall be a procedural prequisite to filing of bankruptcy petition. This tax shall go into a "worker's insurance fund" administered by an elected board consisting of union managers (who shall receive, as compensation, 15% per year of the gross worth of the fund to be divided by percentage of membership).

Union members and their leadership are also exempt from the requirement to present Material Safety Data Sheets for lead pipes.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mnealtx 0]

Really? Wow...talk about "Dirty Jersey"!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706