Washington, D.C.: More Guns, Less Crime

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Homicide totals in 2009 plummet in District

The District and Prince George's County, long considered the region's most violent jurisdictions, logged their lowest homicide totals in years in 2009, with D.C. hitting a 45-year -low.

The number of slayings last year in the District, once known as the murder capital of the United States, was 140, a 25 percent drop from 2008.

But the drop in the District was unprecedented and significant for its size and its scope: Every police district in the city experienced at least a double-digit drop in homicides...

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/31/AR2009123103039.html

This was also the first full year after the D.C. handgun ban was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in the Heller case, and therefore the first year that city residents were able to maintain handguns legally in their homes. What a coincidence.

[nerdgirl 0]

DC – Mayor Fenty and Chief Lanier Announce Lowest Number of Homicides in Four Decades

"Mayor Adrian M. Fenty and Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier announced today that the Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) closed out the year 2009 with the lowest number of homicides since 1966.

"While the national trends are showing homicides reductions at 10 percent, Washington, DC saw a 23 percent reduction; more than double the reduction of other major cities. In addition to the dramatic reduction in homicides, MPD’s homicide closure rate continues to increase also bucking national trends for a second year.

“'Thanks to the MPD officers who put their lives on the line every day, the District of Columbia became a safer place to live in 2009,' said Mayor Fenty. 'I commend Chief Lanier and her team on their hard work, and look forward to building on their gains in 2010.'

“'I could not be more pleased with the hard work put forth by the members of this department,' said Chief Lanier. 'I truly believe that our dramatic reductions are the result of intelligence-driven community policing and our focus on repeat violent offenders; which has been greatly enhanced through the use of technology,'



"MPD’s strategy is focused on two key principals; focusing on repeat violent offenders and building strong partnerships with the members of the community;"

Some of the strategies and tactics employed, like blocking off streets in certain parts of town (NW [correction: NE] & SW) as examples, have been extremely controversial. The initial data does support the new mayor's ideas and his new police chief's execution.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Andy9o8 3]

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The initial data does support the new mayor's ideas and his new police chief's execution.

My god - who'd want to work for a boss who'd do that?

[rushmc 23]

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DC – Mayor Fenty and Chief Lanier Announce Lowest Number of Homicides in Four Decades

"Mayor Adrian M. Fenty and Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier announced today that the Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) closed out the year 2009 with the lowest number of homicides since 1966.

"While the national trends are showing homicides reductions at 10 percent, Washington, DC saw a 23 percent reduction; more than double the reduction of other major cities. In addition to the dramatic reduction in homicides, MPD’s homicide closure rate continues to increase also bucking national trends for a second year.

“'Thanks to the MPD officers who put their lives on the line every day, the District of Columbia became a safer place to live in 2009,' said Mayor Fenty. 'I commend Chief Lanier and her team on their hard work, and look forward to building on their gains in 2010.'

“'I could not be more pleased with the hard work put forth by the members of this department,' said Chief Lanier. 'I truly believe that our dramatic reductions are the result of intelligence-driven community policing and our focus on repeat violent offenders; which has been greatly enhanced through the use of technology,'



"MPD’s strategy is focused on two key principals; focusing on repeat violent offenders and building strong partnerships with the members of the community;"

Some of the strategies and tactics employed, like blocking off streets in certain parts of town (NW [correction: NE] & SW) as examples, have been extremely controversial. The initial data does support the new mayor's ideas and his new police chief's execution.

/Marg

Not saying you are wrong or right but, everybody will now come out of the woodwork to try and take credit.

Very natural for groups AND especially politions

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[christelsabine 1]

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Very natural for groups AND especially politions

That's what kind of group?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[rushmc 23]

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....
Very natural for groups AND especially politions

That's what kind of group?

Put your own name on it
Some may not be postable

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[georgerussia 0]

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This was also the first full year after the D.C. handgun ban was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in the Heller case, and therefore the first year that city residents were able to maintain handguns legally in their homes. What a coincidence.

Well, if you also mention that homicide rates seem to go down pretty much nationwide (for example, San Francisco" has 98 homicides in 2007, 99 in 2008 and 42 in 2009), then it is indeed a coincidence.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Belgian_Draft 0]

China has contributed to the decline as well. Their increased demand for raw materials such as brass, copper, nickel, lead, etc. has driven the cost of ammunition to the point where most poor criminals can't afford the necessities of their trade.
I think the government should subsidize all citizens with ammunition vouchers.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[timmyfitz 0]

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....
Very natural for groups AND especially politions

That's what kind of group?

Good job. You found a spelling error. You win.

[rushmc 23]

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....
Very natural for groups AND especially politions

That's what kind of group?

Good job. You found a spelling error. You win.

She probably won a 3rd grade spelling bee in another life. Gotta go with what you have

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[christelsabine 1]

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Gotta go with what you have

Exactly. And I got quite far, so far

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[JohnRich 4]

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The initial data does support the new mayor's ideas and his new police chief's execution.

So then, the best way to fight crime is to go after the criminals, rather than law-abiding gun owners.

[JohnRich 4]

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Well, if you also mention that homicide rates seem to go down pretty much nationwide (for example, San Francisco" has 98 homicides in 2007, 99 in 2008 and 42 in 2009), then it is indeed a coincidence.

If crime had gone up in D.C. after the loosening of gun ownership laws, would you have been just as quick to brand that a coincidence too?

[JohnRich 4]

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China has contributed to the decline as well. Their increased demand for raw materials such as brass, copper, nickel, lead, etc. has driven the cost of ammunition to the point where most poor criminals can't afford the necessities of their trade.

Criminals only need a handful of cartridges with which to rob people. It's lawful sport shooters that are hurt most by rising ammo prices. I shoot 88 rounds in my across-the-course rifle matches. Bought commercially, that would be $100. Fortunately, I reload to keep the cost down.

[georgerussia 0]

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If crime had gone up in D.C. after the loosening of gun ownership laws, would you have been just as quick to brand that a coincidence too?

If crime had gone down only in D.C., then it would be reasonable to find a D.C.-specific reason for that. But since the crime went down pretty much nationwide, it would be quite a stretch to praise D.C. gun laws for that.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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So then, the best way to fight crime is to go after the criminals, rather than law-abiding gun owners.

So how we supposed to go after people like Cho, who only became criminals when they used their purchased guns for the first (and last) time?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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So then, the best way to fight crime is to go after the criminals, rather than law-abiding gun owners.

So how we supposed to go after people like Cho, who only became criminals when they used their purchased guns for the first (and last) time?

With your future crime machine, or telepathy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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With your future crime machine, or telepathy.

So you're admitting that implementing the best way to fight crime suggested by JohnRich (to go after the criminals) would definitely not be enough?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kallend 2,230]

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So then, the best way to fight crime is to go after the criminals, rather than law-abiding gun owners.

So how we supposed to go after people like Cho, who only became criminals when they used their purchased guns for the first (and last) time?

With your future crime machine, or telepathy.

Common sense would have been enough:

Cho, a senior English major at Virginia Tech, had previously been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder. During much of his middle school and high school years, he received therapy and special education support. After graduating from high school, Cho enrolled at Virginia Tech. Due to federal privacy laws, Virginia Tech was not informed of Cho's previous diagnosis or the accommodations he had been granted at school. In 2005, Cho was accused of stalking two female students; after an investigation a Virginia special justice declared Cho mentally ill and ordered him to attend treatment. At least one professor had also asked Cho to seek counseling.

I fail to see why you are so opposed to the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of loonies like this, in the poster child city for gun ownership.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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So then, the best way to fight crime is to go after the criminals, rather than law-abiding gun owners.

So how we supposed to go after people like Cho, who only became criminals when they used their purchased guns for the first (and last) time?

With your future crime machine, or telepathy.

Common sense would have been enough:

Cho, a senior English major at Virginia Tech, had previously been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder. During much of his middle school and high school years, he received therapy and special education support. After graduating from high school, Cho enrolled at Virginia Tech. Due to federal privacy laws, Virginia Tech was not informed of Cho's previous diagnosis or the accommodations he had been granted at school. In 2005, Cho was accused of stalking two female students; after an investigation a Virginia special justice declared Cho mentally ill and ordered him to attend treatment. At least one professor had also asked Cho to seek counseling.

I fail to see why you are so opposed to the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of loonies like this, in the poster child city for gun ownership.

Show me just WHERE I've said that 'loonies' should be able to get guns? You also know damn good and well that Federal law prohibits sales to the mentally ill.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,230]

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So then, the best way to fight crime is to go after the criminals, rather than law-abiding gun owners.

So how we supposed to go after people like Cho, who only became criminals when they used their purchased guns for the first (and last) time?

With your future crime machine, or telepathy.

Common sense would have been enough:

Cho, a senior English major at Virginia Tech, had previously been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder. During much of his middle school and high school years, he received therapy and special education support. After graduating from high school, Cho enrolled at Virginia Tech. Due to federal privacy laws, Virginia Tech was not informed of Cho's previous diagnosis or the accommodations he had been granted at school. In 2005, Cho was accused of stalking two female students; after an investigation a Virginia special justice declared Cho mentally ill and ordered him to attend treatment. At least one professor had also asked Cho to seek counseling.

I fail to see why you are so opposed to the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of loonies like this, in the poster child city for gun ownership.

Show me just WHERE I've said that 'loonies' should be able to get guns? You also know damn good and well that Federal law prohibits sales to the mentally ill.

Well, THAT explains how Cho couldn't buy a gun. Oh, wait - he DID

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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So then, the best way to fight crime is to go after the criminals, rather than law-abiding gun owners.

So how we supposed to go after people like Cho, who only became criminals when they used their purchased guns for the first (and last) time?

With your future crime machine, or telepathy.

Common sense would have been enough:

Cho, a senior English major at Virginia Tech, had previously been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder. During much of his middle school and high school years, he received therapy and special education support. After graduating from high school, Cho enrolled at Virginia Tech. Due to federal privacy laws, Virginia Tech was not informed of Cho's previous diagnosis or the accommodations he had been granted at school. In 2005, Cho was accused of stalking two female students; after an investigation a Virginia special justice declared Cho mentally ill and ordered him to attend treatment. At least one professor had also asked Cho to seek counseling.

I fail to see why you are so opposed to the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of loonies like this, in the poster child city for gun ownership.

Show me just WHERE I've said that 'loonies' should be able to get guns? You also know damn good and well that Federal law prohibits sales to the mentally ill.

Well, THAT explains how Cho couldn't buy a gun. Oh, wait - he DID

What law had he broken at the time he bought the gun, John? Other than triggering your future crime machine, that is.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

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If crime had gone up in D.C. after the loosening of gun ownership laws, would you have been just as quick to brand that a coincidence too?

If crime had gone down only in D.C., then it would be reasonable to find a D.C.-specific reason for that. But since the crime went down pretty much nationwide, it would be quite a stretch to praise D.C. gun laws for that.

You didn't answer the question - you dodged it. Please try again.

[JohnRich 4]

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With your future crime machine, or telepathy.

So you're admitting that implementing the best way to fight crime suggested by JohnRich (to go after the criminals) would definitely not be enough?

The reality is that you will never stop all crime. If you try to stop all crime proactively, by arresting people before they've done anything wrong, or by overly-restricting things that people can own or do, then you'll have a society that is no longer free. You can post a soldier with an M-16 on every street corner with orders to shoot to kill anyone that appears to be a criminal, and that will surely stop crime. But is that the kind of society in which you wish to live? So if you want to be free, you have to accept some level of crime. Because freedom also includes the freedom to screw up. And the best way to fight that type of crime, is to allow the citizens to be able to defend themselves when and where it strikes.

[kallend 2,230]

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So then, the best way to fight crime is to go after the criminals, rather than law-abiding gun owners.

So how we supposed to go after people like Cho, who only became criminals when they used their purchased guns for the first (and last) time?

With your future crime machine, or telepathy.

Common sense would have been enough:

Cho, a senior English major at Virginia Tech, had previously been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder. During much of his middle school and high school years, he received therapy and special education support. After graduating from high school, Cho enrolled at Virginia Tech. Due to federal privacy laws, Virginia Tech was not informed of Cho's previous diagnosis or the accommodations he had been granted at school. In 2005, Cho was accused of stalking two female students; after an investigation a Virginia special justice declared Cho mentally ill and ordered him to attend treatment. At least one professor had also asked Cho to seek counseling.

I fail to see why you are so opposed to the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of loonies like this, in the poster child city for gun ownership.

Show me just WHERE I've said that 'loonies' should be able to get guns? You also know damn good and well that Federal law prohibits sales to the mentally ill.

Well, THAT explains how Cho couldn't buy a gun. Oh, wait - he DID

What law had he broken at the time he bought the gun, John? Other than triggering your future crime machine, that is.

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You also know damn good and well that Federal law prohibits sales to the mentally ill.

mnealtx, today, this thread.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.