9 years later...

[airdvr 210]

..and we still can't get this right? WTF?

Obama points to failures in intelligence system

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama said Thursday that America's first line of defense is "timely, accurate" intelligence that is properly integrated.

"That's not what happened" before the attempted December 25 airplane bombing, he said.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[PhreeZone 20]

What I found funny was that he was flagged for special investigation while the plane was in the air so he would have been potentially stopped from entering the country but not until after he completed the plane trip. There is a difference between prior to departure and prior to arrival.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Gawain 0]

Quote

..and we still can't get this right? WTF?

Obama points to failures in intelligence system

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama said Thursday that America's first line of defense is "timely, accurate" intelligence that is properly integrated.

"That's not what happened" before the attempted December 25 airplane bombing, he said.

That's why the whole DHS is a crock, NID position is redundant, and State and FBI need to have more open-two-way-communication with CIA and other NSA assets. It doesn't take another cabinet secretary to integrate these things. We've seen that...oh my God, here's that theme...adding more government is not a solution.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

..and we still can't get this right? WTF?

Obama points to failures in intelligence system

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama said Thursday that America's first line of defense is "timely, accurate" intelligence that is properly integrated.

"That's not what happened" before the attempted December 25 airplane bombing, he said.

That's why the whole DHS is a crock, NID position is redundant, and State and FBI need to have more open-two-way-communication with CIA and other NSA assets. It doesn't take another cabinet secretary to integrate these things. We've seen that...oh my God, here's that theme...adding more government is not a solution.

Heck in most countries.. they just let the Army do it.... just think of all the work

[nerdgirl 0]

We all can do a lot of unauthorized armchair quarterbacking here ... and recognizing that won't stop me.

Imo, the 3rd bullet of President's 7Jan10 Directive under the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) is the most important and hardest. (Easy fixes get done because they're easy, don't step on anyone's toes, and cost little.) It's not a copyable pdf file unfortunately. There are a lot of reasons why that's the hardest and most important ranging from the culture of the intelligence community (IC) to hiring to retention -- Average tenure of an intelligence analyst is less than 7 years – they take their TS/SCI’s and go make a lot more money in the private sector.

Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

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NID position is redundant,

What is "NID"?

Do you mean the DNI?

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

Someone who’s not an unauthorized armchair expert recently published in a rather unusual place a pretty scathing critique of intelligence from operations to analysis to linking it to strategy that, imo, highlights some of the system-community-wide problems of the intelligence community. It focuses on another situation, but one that has, imo, parallels to the problems brought forth w/r/t the unsuccessful Christmas Day terrorist event.

Fixing Intel: A Blueprint for Making Intelligence Relevant in Afghanistan by MG Michael Flynn, who is currently active duty general officer in the US Army in Afghanistan. It was unusual because active duty officers don’t usually publish reports through Washington think-tanks, which the Center for A New American Security (CNAS) is, and MG Flynn has received some criticism and support, concurrently, from his superiors:

“Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said [SecDef] Gates found Flynn's analysis ‘brilliant’ and his findings ‘spot on.’

“But Morrell said Gates had ‘real reservations about the general's choice of venue for publication.’

“Flynn's report was issued on Monday by a private Washington think tank, surprising Pentagon officials. Some saw it as a breach of the established military chain of command and an unusually public flogging of intelligence agencies that Flynn is meant to lead in Afghanistan.”

There are outlets for publishing, like Parameters or Military Review, but something like MG Flynn’s report would more typically go through ISAF or CENTCOM Public Affairs. One can speculate on lots of reasons why the report’s authors chose to do what they did … & lots of folks are.


MG Flynn and co-authors biggest criticism is that intelligence collection is being overly prescribed in focusing on one narrow area.

“Eight years into the war in Afghanistan, the U.S. intelligence community is only marginally relevant to the overall strategy.

“Ignorant of local economics and landowners, hazy about who the powerbrokers are and how they might be influenced, incurious [the choice of the adjective ‘incurious’ struck me - nerdgirl] about the cor¬relations between various development projects and the levels of coopera¬tion among villagers, and disengaged from people in the best position to find answers – whether aid workers or Afghan soldiers – U.S. intelligence offi¬cers and analysts can do little but shrug in response to high level decision-mak¬ers seeking the knowledge, analysis, and information they need to wage a successful counterinsurgency.”

Why is that kind of information important? That kind enables the intelligence or “the information and solutions that foster the coopera¬tion of local people who are far better than outsiders at spotting insurgents and their bombs and providing indications and warnings ‘left of boom’ (before IEDs blow up).” If one goes in arrogantly believing one knows what one’s doing because that’s the way it’s always been done or whatever that doesn’t benefit anyone.


Among other critiques are ones that keep coming up in discussions of intelligence community reforms: over-reliance and over-emphasis on classified sources and disregard or dismissal of open-source information, aka OSINT:

“This vast and underappreciated body of information, almost all of which is unclassified, admittedly offers few clues about where to find insurgents, but it does provide elements of even greater strategic importance – a map for leveraging popular support and marginalizing the insurgency itself.

“In a recent project ordered by the White House, analysts could barely scrape together enough information to formulate rudimentary assessments of pivotal Afghan districts. It is little wonder, then, that many decision-makers rely more upon newspapers than military intelligence to obtain ‘ground truth.’”

One of the report’s recommendations is to have intelligence collectors act more like journalists operationally.


There’s also recognition of a need for greater understanding and real-knowledge beyond 3-second sound bites:

“The format of intelligence products matters. Commanders who think PowerPoint storyboards and color-coded spreadsheets are adequate for describing the Afghan conflict and its complexities have some soul searching to do. Sufficient knowl¬edge will not come from slides with little more text than a comic strip.”

Reminds me of the words of one of my favorite retired Marines, TX Hammes on “Dumb-dumb bullets: As a decision-making aid, PowerPoint is a poor tool. Commanders make decisions. Hypothetically, intelligence should be used to help make the best decision. If the intelligence is ‘dumbed down’ too much, it can be more harmful than beneficial. (And I write that as a full-on member of the PowerPoint tribe.) In the DoD and national security community, PowerPoint has become the primary format through which knowledge is communicated. That’s just the way it is. And PowerPoint isn’t all bad, it’s a tool (like guns). What is critical is how the user/human uses it.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[StreetScooby 5]

The NYPost quotes Obama today as follows:

"We will define the character of our country, not some band of small men intent on killing innocent men, women and children".

I believe the character of our country is already pretty well defined. I just don't think Obama sees it, at all.

Another quote:

"There's no silver bullett securing the thousands of flights into America each day, domestic and international. It will require significant investments in many areas."

Bush and his guys were doing just fine with the money they had.

Obama, and his team, are in over their heads.

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 3,121]

>Bush and his guys were doing just fine with the money they had.

If you consider 9/11 fine - and the underwear bomber an example of a system that failed - then we're not even living on the same planet.

[rushmc 23]

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>Bush and his guys were doing just fine with the money they had.

If you consider 9/11 fine - and the underwear bomber an example of a system that failed - then we're not even living on the same planet.

Ah, 9/11 was pre what we have today
And again, the government system completely failed.
You system of people on the airplane did not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,593]

We complain at the impositions of the system (personally, I think the shoe bomber should spend the rest of his life in jail just for making us take our shoes off to go through the metal detector). We complain when they don't work. We complain that we get pulled over. We complain that others (preferably those who don't look like us) don't get pulled over.

Yeah, the system failed. But until we all feel as though we are, in fact, part of the system, it will be one that is imposed on us, rather than our system.

Once the services start sharing information and putting two and two together, how long will it take for there to be a huge outcry over loss of confidentiality when some miscreant who isn't an extremist Muslim terrorist bomber is exposed?

This is my country. The best thing I can do for it individually is to try to live as though I am part of making it work.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[nerdgirl 0]

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>Bush and his guys were doing just fine with the money they had.

If you consider 9/11 fine - and the underwear bomber an example of a system that failed - then we're not even living on the same planet.

I doubt 9-11 was what he meant.

The case of Richard Reid, the shoebomber, however, does have multiple parallels to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab beyond incorporating explosive material into clothing items.

One question that terrorism-wonk type folks have been asking over the last week is why that incident (Reid) didn't prompt changes beyond just forcing travellers to take off their shoes? Part of the answers is that it did, but not in ways that were critical w/r/t the 'underwear bomber' case apparently. Part of the answer is that w/Reid's case, the overwhelming emphasis in responses/changes was to TSA rather than the IC or the whole-of-government coordination. One can speculate a whole lot on the reasons behind that.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[rushmc 23]

Quote

We complain at the impositions of the system (personally, I think the shoe bomber should spend the rest of his life in jail just for making us take our shoes off to go through the metal detector). We complain when they don't work. We complain that we get pulled over. We complain that others (preferably those who don't look like us) don't get pulled over.

Yeah, the system failed. But until we all feel as though we are, in fact, part of the system, it will be one that is imposed on us, rather than our system.

Once the services start sharing information and putting two and two together, how long will it take for there to be a huge outcry over loss of confidentiality when some miscreant who isn't an extremist Muslim terrorist bomber is exposed?

This is my country. The best thing I can do for it individually is to try to live as though I am part of making it work.

Wendy P.

Couldnt agree more
But, the system failed

WE saved lives, not the gov

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

....
Ah, 9/11 was pre what we have today
And again, the government system completely failed.
You system of people on the airplane did not

With my limited English skills, I only do understand that "09/11 was pre what we have today..." - so you still have it today?

And "then again", the system completely failed. Which one, rushmc?

What is "You system of people ......"???

Your post is not easy to understand. Trying my best but, no chance to understand you at all

edited for typo

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

....
Ah, 9/11 was pre what we have today
And again, the government system completely failed.
You system of people on the airplane did not

With my limited English skills, I only do understand that "09/11 was pre what we have today..." - so you still have it today?

And "then again", the system completely failed. Which one, rushmc?

What is "You system of people ......"???

Your post is not easy to understand. Trying my best but, no chance to understand you at all

edited for typo

Then dont try so hard

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,121]

>One question that terrorism-wonk type folks have been asking over
>the last week is why that incident (Reid) didn't prompt changes beyond
>just forcing travellers to take off their shoes?

Because we're being largely reactionary. Forcing people to take off their shoes would do little to prevent another Reid. (And forcing people to remain in their seats for the last hour of the flight would have, ironically, prevented other passengers from stopping this guy.)

I mean, is there much doubt that if (god forbid) someone blows up an airplane with a bomb that looks like a book, the TSA would immediately ban books, and that that would be 90% of their response?

[billvon 3,121]

>You system of people on the airplane did not

Sounds like you agree with Napolitano, then. I agree; most of the system failed. The system on the airplane - the passengers and crew - did not.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>Bush and his guys were doing just fine with the money they had.

If you consider 9/11 fine - and the underwear bomber an example of a system that failed - then we're not even living on the same planet.

Can we have a different name than "underwear bomber?"

His attack was with the Bush system. I doubt one will find any substantial changes to how the TSA operates over the past year.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Quote

....
Ah, 9/11 was pre what we have today
And again, the government system completely failed.
You system of people on the airplane did not

With my limited English skills, I only do understand that "09/11 was pre what we have today..." - so you still have it today?

And "then again", the system completely failed. Which one, rushmc?

What is "You system of people ......"???

Your post is not easy to understand. Trying my best but, no chance to understand you at all

edited for typo

I understood what he wrote. Rather than seeming to make it personal (as I read it), e.g., "no chance to understand you at all ," he might respond if you just asked for clarification? Thanks!
/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Because we're being largely reactionary.

Probably not surprising to anyone, I think that's too simple of an answer. Not disagreeing completely. But I think there's more to it.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[christelsabine 1]

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Quote

Quote

....
I understood what he wrote. Rather than seeming to make it personal (as I read it), e.g., "no chance to understand you at all ," he might respond if you just asked for clarification? Thanks!
/Marg

I did ask for clarification.

If he doesn't like, that's OK for me (always the right of every poster, you're right). He's got the chance.


Looking forward to Marc's reply.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[rushmc 23]

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Quote

>Bush and his guys were doing just fine with the money they had.

If you consider 9/11 fine - and the underwear bomber an example of a system that failed - then we're not even living on the same planet.

Can we have a different name than "underwear bomber?"

His attack was with the Bush system. I doubt one will find any substantial changes to how the TSA operates over the past year.

I heard the "fruit of kaboom" bomber today

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>You system of people on the airplane did not

Sounds like you agree with Napolitano, then. I agree; most of the system failed. The system on the airplane - the passengers and crew - did not.

No,you dont agree with me, cause your twisting is wrong

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

....
I understood what he wrote. Rather than seeming to make it personal (as I read it), e.g., "no chance to understand you at all ," he might respond if you just asked for clarification? Thanks!
/Marg

I did ask for clarification.

If he doesn't like, that's OK for me (always the right of every poster, you're right). He's got the chance.


Looking forward to Marc's reply.

Then ask nice.

But, I really doubt that was your intent

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,121]

>No,you dont agree with me

Then you've changed your story again. Napolitano said the system worked; that the passengers and crew of the flight took appropriate action. You just said that the system of people on the plane (the passengers and crew) worked. I agree.

Want to change it yet again?