mnealtx 0 #176 January 2, 2010 QuoteQuote Really? WHO was it that said that 21 people killed in Russia wasn't a spree, because there were three killers, again? Dude, Dnepropetrovsk (which you mentioned) is not in Russia. Check your "facts" before posting them. Ukraine, then - still doesn't change your statement. Nice attempt at deflection, though. Not a spree, by YOUR definition.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #177 January 2, 2010 QuoteQuote Not a spree, by your own standards. Not a spree, by your own standards. Not a spree, by your own standards. Not a spree, by your own standards. Not a spree, by your own standards. Not a spree, by your own standards. Not a spree, by your own standards. Don't you have any self-respect? This is just LAME. YOU made the standard - I'm just following it. Any loss of self-respect is of course, your own doing. QuoteAnd since when you were appointed to set up MY standards? When you decided to declare what counted as a spree or not. Sucks to be you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #178 January 2, 2010 Quote Ukraine, then - still doesn't change your statement. Nice attempt at deflection, though. Not at all a deflection - you were talking so loud of presenting "facts", but apparently didn't check your "facts" before posting. QuoteNot a spree, by YOUR definition. No, 20+ people being killed during a year is not a spree (difficult to do it at once with a knife; they would definitely be able to do so if they had a gun).* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #179 January 2, 2010 Quote YOU made the standard - I'm just following it. Seems like you do not even understand then what is my standard, but still applying it. Again, so much for "facts".* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #180 January 2, 2010 QuoteQuote Ukraine, then - still doesn't change your statement. Nice attempt at deflection, though. Not at all a deflection - you were talking so loud of presenting "facts", but apparently didn't check your "facts" before posting. Oh, absolutely - it's MUCH more important to note that the town is in Ukraine instead of Russia proper, when we're talking about killings. IOW - bullshit. QuoteQuoteNot a spree, by YOUR definition. No, 20+ people being killed during a year is not a spree (difficult to do it at once with a knife; they would definitely be able to do so if they had a gun). Well, then we're agreed - less than 7 people per killer is not a 'spree', by your own definition.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #181 January 3, 2010 Quote Oh, absolutely - it's MUCH more important to note that the town is in Ukraine instead of Russia proper, when we're talking about killings. Yes, it is. Nobody knows if you mistyped the town name (and talking now about a different case), or a country name (and talking about the same case), so the clarification was necessary. Quote IOW - bullshit. It is always nice to see how politely you react when YOUR mistakes are being shown. QuoteQuoteNot a spree, by YOUR definition. Quote Well, then we're agreed - less than 7 people per killer is not a 'spree', by your own definition. No, we do not. One person who killed fifty people in fifty years with bare hands is not a 'spree' by my standards either, even though he killed more than 7, and didn't even use a gun.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #182 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuote Oh, absolutely - it's MUCH more important to note that the town is in Ukraine instead of Russia proper, when we're talking about killings. Yes, it is. Nobody knows if you mistyped the town name (and talking now about a different case), or a country name (and talking about the same case), so the clarification was necessary. Yes, yes, it's SO important that, living nearby, your username is "georgeukraine" - oh, wait. Of course, you forget about these nifty little things called 'search engines' - really cool websites and Google is one of the most popular ones. Why, you can put in the word "Dnepropetrovsk" and the very first hit is for a MAP of Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine - how cool is that? QuoteQuoteNot a spree, by YOUR definition. Quote Well, then we're agreed - less than 7 people per killer is not a 'spree', by your own definition. No, we do not. One person who killed fifty people in fifty years with bare hands is not a 'spree' by my standards either, even though he killed more than 7, and didn't even use a gun. The weapon used doesn't determine if it's a spree, sorry.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #183 January 3, 2010 Quote Of course, you forget about these nifty little things called 'search engines' - really cool websites and Google is one of the most popular ones. Why, you can put in the word "Dnepropetrovsk" and the very first hit is for a MAP of Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine - how cool is that? You are really smart, you know so much about Google! So why didn't YOU do it before posting? You'd know it is in Ukraine, and would not post wrong country, and saved yourself some grief. QuoteThe weapon used doesn't determine if it's a spree, sorry. Indeed. Fifty people killed in fifty years with a gun is not spree either.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,085 #184 January 3, 2010 And your one warning. Cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #185 January 3, 2010 QuoteYou'd know it is in Ukraine, and would not post wrong country, and saved yourself some grief. Yes, as I said above, that's SO much more important in a thread about murders, 'georgeukraine'. QuoteThe weapon used doesn't determine if it's a spree, sorry. Indeed. Fifty people killed in fifty years with a gun is not spree either. But according to crime officials, 21 people killed in 3 weeks with hammers, IS. Of course, YOU know better.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #182 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuote Oh, absolutely - it's MUCH more important to note that the town is in Ukraine instead of Russia proper, when we're talking about killings. Yes, it is. Nobody knows if you mistyped the town name (and talking now about a different case), or a country name (and talking about the same case), so the clarification was necessary. Yes, yes, it's SO important that, living nearby, your username is "georgeukraine" - oh, wait. Of course, you forget about these nifty little things called 'search engines' - really cool websites and Google is one of the most popular ones. Why, you can put in the word "Dnepropetrovsk" and the very first hit is for a MAP of Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine - how cool is that? QuoteQuoteNot a spree, by YOUR definition. Quote Well, then we're agreed - less than 7 people per killer is not a 'spree', by your own definition. No, we do not. One person who killed fifty people in fifty years with bare hands is not a 'spree' by my standards either, even though he killed more than 7, and didn't even use a gun. The weapon used doesn't determine if it's a spree, sorry.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #183 January 3, 2010 Quote Of course, you forget about these nifty little things called 'search engines' - really cool websites and Google is one of the most popular ones. Why, you can put in the word "Dnepropetrovsk" and the very first hit is for a MAP of Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine - how cool is that? You are really smart, you know so much about Google! So why didn't YOU do it before posting? You'd know it is in Ukraine, and would not post wrong country, and saved yourself some grief. QuoteThe weapon used doesn't determine if it's a spree, sorry. Indeed. Fifty people killed in fifty years with a gun is not spree either.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #184 January 3, 2010 And your one warning. Cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #185 January 3, 2010 QuoteYou'd know it is in Ukraine, and would not post wrong country, and saved yourself some grief. Yes, as I said above, that's SO much more important in a thread about murders, 'georgeukraine'. QuoteThe weapon used doesn't determine if it's a spree, sorry. Indeed. Fifty people killed in fifty years with a gun is not spree either. But according to crime officials, 21 people killed in 3 weeks with hammers, IS. Of course, YOU know better.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #186 January 3, 2010 Quote Yes, as I said above, that's SO much more important in a thread about murders, 'georgeukraine'. Yes, it is important to me. And distorting one's nick is childish. You can do better. Quote But according to crime officials, 21 people killed in 3 weeks with hammers, IS. Which crime officials? Are you telling me you can read press release from Ukrainian MVD? Or you mean "crime officials" from NRA?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crewkeith 0 #187 January 3, 2010 and if i camr to germany spouting off how shitty german laws are would that go unpunished? no i would be escorted to the nearest airport and shown the door. chime in when you got something useful sweetie.The skies are no longer safe I'm back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,113 #188 January 3, 2010 Quoteand if i camr to germany spouting off how shitty german laws are would that go unpunished? no i would be escorted to the nearest airport and shown the door. chime in when you got something useful sweetie. Ignorant comment. Freedom of expression in Germany is granted by Article 5 of the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany. Although there are some prohibited topics (holocaust denial, for example), commenting negatively on German laws is permissable to "all persons", a group that would include you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #189 January 3, 2010 QuoteWhen was the last killing spree in a gunstore, shooting range or police station again? Since a killing spree, by definition, cannot occur in a gunstore, at a shooting range, or at a police station, what is the point of your question?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #190 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhen was the last killing spree in a gunstore, shooting range or police station again? Since a killing spree, by definition, cannot occur in a gunstore, at a shooting range, or at a police station, what is the point of your question? Simply touching back on the fact that criminals prefer unarmed victims.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #191 January 3, 2010 Quote Ignorant comment. Freedom of expression in Germany is granted by Article 5 of the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany. Although there are some prohibited topics (holocaust denial, for example), commenting negatively on German laws is permissable to "all persons", a group that would include you. It's a pretty fucking big "Although" there. I prefer a real freedom of expression, where Nazis and Scientologists can roam freely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #192 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhen was the last killing spree in a gunstore, shooting range or police station again? Since a killing spree, by definition, cannot occur in a gunstore, at a shooting range, or at a police station, what is the point of your question? Simply touching back on the fact that criminals prefer unarmed victims. I fail to see how your question does that. Perhaps you can clarify how asking someone to list impossible occurrences accomplishes that goal.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #193 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuote 5 years ago is hardly too old, and if you only cut it in half (minus Dec), you're still higher than the US rate. In short, it doesn't really show success, does it? Five years is significant for Russia at this moment, the country is changing pretty fast. Unfortunately MVD online statistics only goes back to 2006, so I cannot verify 2004 numbers. Also did you read the rest of the posts, regarding "attempted murders"? If you did, why do you still compare raw numbers, as it is obvious that you're comparing oranges with apples? Homicide is one of the easiest things to define, and the most comparable between different locations. I'm not really buying this notion that the Russian government is deliberately overstating the murder rate by including attempted murders. In any case, I can't examine a Russian language document. What you stated was there were only 15k homicides in 11 months of one year, which for a country less than half the size of the US (18k in recent year), doesn't prove that any gun control efforts are effective at preventing murder. QuoteQuote Why? They're the 1% case. Shouldn't be the focus of sweeping policy change. 1% of what? deaths. If you have in the ballpark of 10k gun deaths (non suicide) in a year, and these "spree" types account for < 100 of them, that's 1%. Personally, I'm much concerned for the rights of my small female friends (5', 100lbs) to defend themselves against ex boyfriends or other threats. Far more significant than 1%. If they want to buy a handgun, they should be able to. And if they need one quickly than the ~2 weeks it will take to do so, I'll be lending them one of mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #194 January 3, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote When was the last killing spree in a gunstore, shooting range or police station again? Since a killing spree, by definition, cannot occur in a gunstore, at a shooting range, or at a police station, what is the point of your question? Simply touching back on the fact that criminals prefer unarmed victims. I fail to see how your question does that. Perhaps you can clarify how asking someone to list impossible occurrences accomplishes that goal. Or maybe we could just play semantics games based on the number of locations the murders happened at? I'm using the term the same way George is - multiple murders. I *know* that it is properly a 'mass murder' and not a 'spree murder' - for the point of the discussion with George, it's immaterial.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #195 January 3, 2010 QuoteOr maybe we could just play semantics games based on the number of locations the murders happened at? Isn't that (i.e., playing semantics) exactly what you did here?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #196 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteOr maybe we could just play semantics games based on the number of locations the murders happened at? Isn't that (i.e., playing semantics) exactly what you did here? Nope - he said in another thread that 21 killings by 3 different people wasn't a massacre or anything - I was using his own criteria.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #197 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteOr maybe we could just play semantics games based on the number of locations the murders happened at? Isn't that (i.e., playing semantics) exactly what you did here? Nope - he said in another thread that 21 killings by 3 different people wasn't a massacre or anything - I was using his own criteria. I'm not concerned with your reason; you were playing semantic games.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #198 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOr maybe we could just play semantics games based on the number of locations the murders happened at? Isn't that (i.e., playing semantics) exactly what you did here? Nope - he said in another thread that 21 killings by 3 different people wasn't a massacre or anything - I was using his own criteria. I'm not concerned with your reason; you were playing semantic games. Believe what you wish.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #199 January 3, 2010 Quote Homicide is one of the easiest things to define, and the most comparable between different locations. You sound like you have experience in this field; could you please share your experience in researching how homicide statistics is collected in different countries, and how many country laws are you familiar with? Just for example, you're now using term 'homicide' instead of 'murder', which is the case for Russia (there is a single line in the official statistics, which also includes "attempted homicide"; probably there is internal statistics which keeps them separated, but it is not disclosed). Is it the case with U.S. or other countries you're comparing to? Quote I'm not really buying this notion that the Russian government is deliberately overstating the murder rate by including attempted murders. In any case, I can't examine a Russian language document. Interesting. You were given a direct link to the document from official government web site. All you needed to do is scroll down to a specific page, select the text from the PDF file, open Google translate and copy it there. You would see the result yourself. On the contrary, you and others from your camp accused me of "ignoring the facts" just because I did not spend a day researching something you mentioned without any references at all. This is the great example of hypocrisy. Quote What you stated was there were only 15k homicides in 11 months of one year, which for a country less than half the size of the US (18k in recent year), doesn't prove that any gun control efforts are effective at preventing murder. What you are doing is trying to twist the facts to match your theory. It doesn't work however, and it is obvious you're trying to compare apples with oranges. For example, you just ignored this argument referred by your own post which indeed shows how gun ownership effectively reduces murder rate! Quote If you have in the ballpark of 10k gun deaths (non suicide) in a year, and these "spree" types account for < 100 of them, that's 1%. You're comparing with sprees, which are obviously murders, so you should compare number of gun murders, not just deaths (which may include manslaughter). Are you saying there are 10k gun murders in a year? Could you cite a source then? Quote Personally, I'm much concerned for the rights of my small female friends (5', 100lbs) to defend themselves against ex boyfriends or other threats. I do not know anyone who would have to actually defend themselves against ex boyfriends (maybe it is part of local dating culture? lol), and in this case if a restraining order does not help, I guess why a gun would. But anyway - your way of thinking is like "my way or the highway". That's exactly how Brady bunch looks like, and that's why I'm saying you're not different - just on the opposite side.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #200 January 3, 2010 QuoteIt's a pretty fucking big "Although" there. I prefer a real freedom of expression, where Nazis and Scientologists can roam freely. Do you know any country where you have this "real freedom of expression"? As far as I know, not ever kind of expression is covered under First Amendment in U.S.; for example child and obscene pornography is not covered, while regular pornography is. Regarding free speech, a recent distasteful joke from Russia: Obama meets Medvedev and tells him about democracy in the USA, and free speech and how Russia should change the laws to provide the same free speech. Being asked for example, Obama says: - We have free speech in USA, which is protected by our Constitution. For example, anyone can go to street with a banner saying "Get out of White House you stupid nigger Obama" and he will not be prosecuted for his free speech. - Russia has the same free speech - replied Medvedev - Anyone in Russia can can go to street with a banner saying "Get out of White House you stupid nigger Obama" and he will not be prosecuted for his free speech either!* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
