The system worked perfectly

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'm more concerned about the heroic passenger. He should have just called 911 and waited for authorities to respond and/or tried reasoning with the highly educated fellow he assaulted and stripped.

This is the kind of guy who keeps a gun in his house for "protection."

Well, he's Dutch, so we probably don't have to worry about him being armed. (Good thing he wasn't French, eh?)

The incident certainly shows gaps in the system, which unfortunately appears to be being addressed with a lot of window dressing that's going to make flying even less fun. No bathrooms or reading for the last hour? (They better do a final booze run just before the cutoff) And this is the next step to the mandatory stripping down naked for security.

As for the attacker himself - seems like quite the poser fuckup. Not clear he really was involved with anyone, burns his balls off in a lame attack that didn't look like it had a chance of success. Sort of like the mad shoe bomber case.

[Andy9o8 2]

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US counterterrorism system works

No US jurisdiction in Nigeria, where his trip began, or Amsterdam, where he connected.

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Let's see....the guy had no passport.

Undetermined. A lot of blogs are saying that a couple passengers saw him trying to get on in Amsterdam w/o a passport. But I also read a Reuters report that said his passport was screened when he boarded in Lagos, Nigeria. So far, the only "regular" news outlet that discusses the issue that I could find was the NY Daily News; everything else is just blogs.

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No luggage.

He didn't CHECK IN luggage, but he did have a carry-on. Lots of people travel light, with just a carry-on. I hate checking-in my bags, especially when I have a connecting flight, so I sometimes do that myself.

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A one way ticket.

Nope. Per CNN, it was a round trip ticket.

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A syringe in his pocket.
Chemicals in his underwear.

There are very few airlines or airports in the world where full-body pat-downs and inside-clothing searches are done. A couple do, the vast majority do not. You may not approve of that, but it's still pretty much the industry standard world-wide.

[airdvr 210]

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Baseless, standardized, one-size-fits-all, partisan rhetoric. Yawn.

I think her actions mirror the administration's attempt to treat terrorism and it's participants as law-breakers and not enemy combatants.

Either way she sounded inept and clueless on Sunday. I feel bad for anyone in her position. Trying to stop the likes of this kind is and always will be almost impossible.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[ridestrong 1]

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>>Your comparison to Tom Ridge is irrelevant in Napolitano's competency.

It's relevant to the discussion if we're to avoid partisan double standards, instead of just play "bash the Obama administration official". Either both Ridge and Napolitano were qualified when appointed, or neither of them were.

>> She is too interested in a gummed down pc approach to terrorist prevention.

Baseless, standardized, one-size-fits-all, partisan rhetoric. Yawn.

>>I would prefer to see someone with law enforcement experience/background in the position (PD, CIA, FBI, etc..).

You mean like THIS GUY , who was appointed to the position by Bush? He'll be sentenced on February 18; federal prosecutors are recommending a 27- to 33-month prison term.

You just made ZERO arguments to your point. I didn't click on your link as again it is irrelevant.

We need someone to replace Napolitano that will do more than pass some stupid shit like 'no getting up from your seat one hour prior to landing'. There needs to be more focus on preventing these assholes from getting on the planes in the first place.

We also need to see 'red flags' for what they are instead of worrying that they may be misconstrued as racist or unjust profiling.

I don't think there is anything partisan about wanting to improve our Homeland Security protocols and those implementing them.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Andy9o8 2]

Way to keep missing the point of my posts. I'm not going to keep clarifying them for your benefit.

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I didn't click on your link

Hey, no problemo.

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Former NYPD commissioner Kerik pleads guilty to lying to White House

White Plains, New York (CNN) -- Former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik on Thursday pleaded guilty to charges of lying to Bush administration officials who vetted his unsuccessful 2004 nomination to be homeland security secretary.

Kerik admitted to eight counts as part of a plea agreement with federal prosecutors, who are recommending a 27- to 33-month prison term. U.S. District Judge Stephen Robinson set Kerik's sentencing for February 18.
.....

[Kerik] was nominated by President George W. Bush for the post of homeland security secretary in 2004. However, he withdrew from consideration after allegations surfaced that he employed a nanny whose immigration status was murky.
.....

In 2006, Kerik pleaded guilty to accepting tens of thousands of dollars worth of gifts while he worked as city corrections commissioner, but under a plea agreement he paid $221,000 in fines and avoided jail time.

[kallend 2,147]

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>>Your comparison to Tom Ridge is irrelevant in Napolitano's competency.

It's relevant to the discussion if we're to avoid partisan double standards, instead of just play "bash the Obama administration official". Either both Ridge and Napolitano were qualified when appointed, or neither of them were.

>> She is too interested in a gummed down pc approach to terrorist prevention.

Baseless, standardized, one-size-fits-all, partisan rhetoric. Yawn.

>>I would prefer to see someone with law enforcement experience/background in the position (PD, CIA, FBI, etc..).

You mean like THIS GUY , who was appointed to the position by Bush? He'll be sentenced on February 18; federal prosecutors are recommending a 27- to 33-month prison term.

You just made ZERO arguments to your point. I didn't click on your link as again it is irrelevant.

.

Nope. He made HIS point very well, that YOU clearly display a double standard.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ridestrong 1]

Stupid link...

I'm quite certain that Obama can appoint someone who will be more qualified and proficient than Napolitano and who is not a criminal.

Feel free to continue posting your stupid links about prior Bush appointees and other irrelevant shit. Frankly for arguments sake I think Obama should fire anyone appointed during the Bush admin and hire all new people to take the blame.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[ridestrong 1]

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>>Your comparison to Tom Ridge is irrelevant in Napolitano's competency.

It's relevant to the discussion if we're to avoid partisan double standards, instead of just play "bash the Obama administration official". Either both Ridge and Napolitano were qualified when appointed, or neither of them were.

>> She is too interested in a gummed down pc approach to terrorist prevention.

Baseless, standardized, one-size-fits-all, partisan rhetoric. Yawn.

>>I would prefer to see someone with law enforcement experience/background in the position (PD, CIA, FBI, etc..).

You mean like THIS GUY , who was appointed to the position by Bush? He'll be sentenced on February 18; federal prosecutors are recommending a 27- to 33-month prison term.

You just made ZERO arguments to your point. I didn't click on your link as again it is irrelevant.

.

Nope. He made HIS point very well, that YOU clearly display a double standard.

Point out the double standard....

I would hold the same standard of security regardless of who is in office. Fire Tom Ridge, scrutinize him as much as you want. I don't care about Tom Ridge.

Are you guys trying to defend Napolitano? She is the only one I am talking about. I simply think there is someone out there that is better suited for the job.

Anything you say about Bush and his previous admin I will agree with because it has nothing to do with Napolitano's competency.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[skyrider 0]

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And these people think they can run health care too!

Thanks for playing to type. See my post #5.

I added that after seeing your ever repeated Rant!

Ya can always count on a lib to follow chant that they learn with the kool aid, , so thought I'd join in!

[rehmwa 2]

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Baseless, standardized, one-size-fits-all, partisan rhetoric. Yawn.
.
.
.
.
.
You mean like THIS GUY , who was appointed to the position by Bush?

I'm really having a hard time lately telling any of you guys apart.

Maybe more eggnog will help

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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There are very few airlines or airports in the world where full-body pat-downs and inside-clothing searches are done.

And it really takes determination to make sure one routes all their trips to or through those places. But persistence pays off.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gawain 0]

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the system doesn't work because to much time is being spent searching and screaning people that are not fitting the profile of the terrorists.

Marks...why are you a racist and hater of children? j/k You're right on.

What happens when one starts to emphasize (or worse, restrict, which is not the same as profiling) the notional terrorist profile?

Palestinian terrorists responded to Israel’s profiling by recruiting young women.

Domestically, profiling would also likely have missed (or did miss) Bryant Neal Vincent (white, from NY, convert from Catholicism, who trained w/AQ in Pakistan to be a suicide bomber), David Headley (Chicago businessman, linked to LeT Mumbai bombing, altho’ the Indian press thinks he’s CIA agent gone ‘rogue’), Carlos Leon Bledsoe (black, convert from Protestantism, attacked Army recruiting station in Little Rock), Kevin Lamar James (black, convert from Protestantism, plotted to attack military recruiting station and synagogue in LA), and Daniel Boyd (white, convert from Christianity, plotted to attack Quantico Marine Base). Even Nidal Hassan is 39, at the far end of “young.”

Setting aside the normative issues for the moment. That tend to be the source of antagonism, imo ... or if the profile targets you or your group. Whether profiling creates vulnerabilities is a policy issue, imo. Perhaps, more importantly, it’s also a short-term (feel-good? cuz we can identify a 'them'?) solution at the ‘pointy end.’ Terrorists innovate. A terrorist who’s on his or her way to board a plane indicates a long chain of activities that were not interrupted. Of course, stopping at the last chance is preferable to not stopping at all.

/Marg

Finding exceptions to the rule does not render the rule useless. Other than that, your points are valid. In broader terms there are still commonalities, male, religious conversion event, travel/contact in the middle east or southern Asia. THere are multiple variables of course....

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Andy9o8 2]

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the kool aid

My kool aid's got Jack in it. Want some?

[georgerussia 0]

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US counterterrorism system works, claims Secretary Napolitano...
Let's see....the guy had no passport.

Are you sure? I flew this route three times this year (same flight), and eight times total from Amsterdam to U.S. since last Summer. While they did not pat down everyone boarding the flight (I was never patted down in AMS), the passport/visa check was always very thorough, especially for those with non-US passport.

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No luggage.

Most times I fly to Europe without luggage (only carry-on). Never had any questions about it so far from security, nor I needed to explain anything. Same for a few people I talked to on a plane - makes it easier to skip parts of a route, or change schedule if the flight is delayed. Makes it also much faster to go through Customs.

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A one way ticket.

I wonder if aviation security sees this, as they only see one boarding pass. Does one way/roundtrip show somehow there? All I typically get is a pass for this single flight, so they do not even know what my final destination is.

Had it once this Summer too - getting two one-way tickets was somehow cheaper than a roundtrip. Again, no questions about it.

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A syringe in his pocket.

Syringes are allowed if you have a prescription from a doctor for a medication requiring injection (like diabetes).

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Chemicals in his underwear.

This one they missed, agree.

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On the warn list.

in AMS or in US?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kelpdiver 2]

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A one way ticket.

I wonder if aviation security sees this, as they only see one boarding pass. Does one way/roundtrip show somehow there? All I typically get is a pass for this single flight, so they do not even know what my final destination is.

They can and do embed codes in these boarding passes that get you shunted into the special screening. Someone that has enough of the risk factors could trigger this.

The one time I flew with checked firearms I got that screening and I don't believe there was any coincidence to it.

[georgerussia 0]

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They can and do embed codes in these boarding passes that get you shunted into the special screening. Someone that has enough of the risk factors could trigger this.

Sure, they technically can, so the reason I'm asking is that all I've seen so far was a pencil mark on a boarding pass.

I'm getting screened every second time when I fly outside US, but never on a way back.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[jcd11235 0]

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Whether profiling creates vulnerabilities is a policy issue, imo.

I respectfully disagree. There's no question that profiling creates vulnerabilities. You've offered examples of one such vulnerability being exploited (e.g., training young girls as bombers).

What I would consider a policy issue is whether or not the benefits of profiling outweigh the negative characteristics and effects of profiling and whether or not to implement profiling after considering the positives and negatives.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[ridestrong 1]

If we are going to search/screen 80y/o women and 6y/o children then we just need to start screening EVERYONE! That way the anti-profiling whiny bitches can STFU and we can hopefully keep more of these fucks of the airplanes. It will be worth the 2 hour security lines.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Andy9o8 2]

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The one time I flew with checked firearms I got that screening and I don't believe there was any coincidence to it.

I can't imagine what the red flag mighta been.

Anyhow, it looks like the airlines are finally starting to get it:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/cartoons/gallery/81353.html

[Lucky... 0]

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Any more info to base a discussion on?

No, it's kinda like conservatives saying, "Pelosi; believe her?"

It's a cult, not a viable political ideology.

[Lucky... 0]

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Janet Napolitano is a douche bag and needs to be fired or resign. This is not her field of expertise and she doesn't know what she's doing.

She sucked worse as governor, I can cite reasons rather than just, "Napalitano; believe her?'

[Lucky... 0]

And the system works? And these people think they can run health care too!

Only 13 posts; what took so long?

How about the 600B/yr military, it usuallyh works but costs 8 times that of #2 and basically run by private corps by way of contracts. 300B B-1 bombers that don't work. Yea, private corps have it nailed.

[Lucky... 0]

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And these people think they can run health care too!

Thanks for playing to type. See my post #5.

I added that after seeing your ever repeated Rant!

Ya can always count on a lib to follow chant that they learn with the kool aid, , so thought I'd join in!

Hey, did ya hear about the new city park? Yea, and they can run HC too? Hardly. Hey, did ya hear the gov weather svs said it would rain today? Well, it didn't and now they want to run HC when they can't even predict the weather correctly. The sky is falling.

[kallend 2,147]

Vote urged to confirm TSA chief
A GOP senator had blocked Obama's nominee over concerns he would let screeners join unions.

By Hugo Martín and Kathleen B. Hennessey

December 29, 2009


Reporting from Washington and Los Angeles - In the wake of the botched Christmas Day airliner attack, industry groups, airport workers and others have renewed calls on Congress to confirm President Obama's nominee to head the Transportation Security Administration.

The confirmation of Erroll Southers, a former FBI agent and the top law enforcement official at Los Angeles World Airports, has been pending since September. Trade groups and pilots union leaders say the latest incident heightens concerns that the agency still does not have a permanent leader.

Aviation and security experts made clear that Southers' confirmation as administrator would not have prevented a Nigerian national from allegedly smuggling explosive material onto a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Detroit and trying to detonate it.

"The TSA has been rudderless, but it's hard to blame them, personally," said Bruce Schneier, a security expert and author.

The suspect, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, was on a general counter-terrorism watch list that contains about 550,000 names that are shared with airlines and foreign security agencies. But his name was not on a no-fly list.

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), the ranking member on the aviation subcommittee of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, has led the opposition to Southers' confirmation by raising questions about whether he would allow TSA security screeners to unionize.

Southers, who also is associate director at USC's Center for Risk and Economic Analysis of Terrorism Events, has the support of several airline trade groups and pilots associations.

"During a time when security is so important, we need to push politics aside," said Steve Lott, spokesman for the International Air Transport Assn., a trade group that represents most of the world's largest airlines. "It benefits the agency to have Southers in that role. They need a leader in that position."

Bruce Hoffman, a professor at Georgetown University and expert on security matters, said he wouldn't lay the blame for the Detroit incident entirely on the TSA. But he said the agency can better respond with a confirmed leader in charge.

"We will suffer by not having a leader," he said.

The American Federation of Government Employees, the largest union representing government workers, made the same plea three weeks ago when the TSA inadvertently posted classified airport screening information on the Internet.

"This incident further illuminates the urgency of appointing a permanent leader at the agency," the group said.

An interim chief has been running the TSA since January. Obama nominated Southers in September to fill the position. A Senate committee forwarded the nomination to the full Senate in November, and DeMint then put a hold on the nomination, a procedural move that can block a vote.

DeMint said he was troubled by Southers' refusal to answer questions about whether he would recommend that TSA workers unionize.

In a letter to DeMint, Southers said he would consult with employee and industry groups before taking a position and would not pursue any action "that would potentially compromise the safety and security of the flying public."

But DeMint said Monday: "The attempted terror attack in Detroit is a perfect example of why the Obama administration should not unionize the TSA and allow our airline security decisions to be dictated by union bosses."

Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), noted that the Senate wanted to confirm Southers and nominees for other posts by unanimous consent before the Senate recessed on Christmas Eve, but DeMint's hold on Southers blocked the plan.

"Hopefully, in light of this recent incident, he'll relent and allow the Senate to confirm Mr. Southers," Manley said. "The American people have every right to have a nominee in place at the TSA. The only thing Sen. DeMint is trying to do here is try to score cheap political points."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

An article in WSJ yesterday:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126205922889608567.html

Father alerted US officials - raised only some flags, but the threshold of "reasonable suspicion" wasn't met. The database hold half-a-million names.

Valid US VISA on Nigerian Passport - no flags to raise.

Purchased ticket in cash - should have raised the flag, but did not because apparently cash purchases overseas is a common occurrence. Fair enough, but the consequence of this was no flagging in Amsterdam, and according to the article, he provided no contact information at the point of purchase.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!