kallend 2,117 #51 December 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote The fact that she described the bomber's color illustrates that was essential to her. OR, she was accurately describing the person. Like it or not, descriptions like black/white/Asian/short/fat/bald are all extremely good ways to help describe someone. You can't say black, asian, muslim, fat, or short. They are apparently offensive traits to speak of. I think you meant to be sarcastic there (we really need a sarcasm emoticon), but it seems to be true lately. I was going through Chicago, listening to WBBM news radio (they have the best traffic reports) and they had a report that the police were looking for someone (I think it was an attempted child abduction but I don't remember for sure). They had the standard height/weight/hair color, clothes and a description of the suspect's car. But they never mentioned what color skin the suspect had. Well, I listen daily to WBBM-AM and they always mention it if the suspect is black, so in your case I guess she wasn't. Example Quote Offender #1 (pictured right) is described as a male black, in his 30's or early 40's, 5'11-6'02, medium build, bald and wearing a black leather jacket. Offender #2 is described as a male black, 35-40 years of age, 5'08, 190 pounds and was wearing a blue baseball cap, tan or brown jacket and black pants. Possible Offender #3 is described as a male black, 40-47 years of age, 6'03, 185 pounds. Sorry!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #52 December 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote The fact that she described the bomber's color illustrates that was essential to her. OR, she was accurately describing the person. Like it or not, descriptions like black/white/Asian/short/fat/bald are all extremely good ways to help describe someone. You can't say black, asian, muslim, fat, or short. They are apparently offensive traits to speak of. R-i-g-h-t R-i-g-h-t R-i-g-h-t R-i-g-h-t (And I fail to see how describing someone as "muslim" helps any more in a description than describing someone as "mormon" or "lutheran".)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,089 #53 December 29, 2009 >You can't say black, asian, muslim, fat, or short. They are >apparently offensive traits to speak of. Or catholic, jewish, old, spastic or indian (either the native-american or indian version) - unless, of course, you happen to _be_ catholic, jewish, old, spastic or indian. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #54 December 29, 2009 You can't even call someone from Mexico 'Mexican' any more.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #55 December 29, 2009 I was referencing two other poster's comments. Sorry if it was too deep for you. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #56 December 29, 2009 Quote (And I fail to see how describing someone as "muslim" helps any more in a description than describing someone as "mormon" or "lutheran".) "Muslim" is a generalization true... but chances are if you put a muslim, a mormon and a lutheran in a line-up you would be able to pick out the muslim by that very description. The majority of muslims will fit a certain description just as the majority of mormons will also fit a certain description. So yes, even though it is a generalization it can be helpful in a description.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #57 December 29, 2009 Quote Quote (And I fail to see how describing someone as "muslim" helps any more in a description than describing someone as "mormon" or "lutheran".) "Muslim" is a generalization true... but chances are if you put a muslim, a mormon and a lutheran in a line-up you would be able to pick out the muslim by that very description. The majority of muslims will fit a certain description just as the majority of mormons will also fit a certain description. So yes, even though it is a generalization it can be helpful in a description. It's hard to imagine why some Muslims might feel that they're being dehumanized, leading to them being filled with rage at certain western nations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #58 December 29, 2009 Quote>You can't say black, asian, muslim, fat, or short. They are >apparently offensive traits to speak of. Or catholic, jewish, old, spastic or indian (either the native-american or indian version) - unless, of course, you happen to _be_ catholic, jewish, old, spastic or indian. Yes, I pine for the good old days, when "spastic bank robbers" were openly described as such in the news bulletins. So anyhow, I googled "spastic terrorist", but these are the only hits I got: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&um=1&newwindow=1&sa=1&q=%22spastic+terrorist%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #59 December 29, 2009 QuoteQuote (And I fail to see how describing someone as "muslim" helps any more in a description than describing someone as "mormon" or "lutheran".) "Muslim" is a generalization true... but chances are if you put a muslim, a mormon and a lutheran in a line-up you would be able to pick out the muslim by that very description. The majority of muslims will fit a certain description just as the majority of mormons will also fit a certain description. So yes, even though it is a generalization it can be helpful in a description. Ummm - the majority of muslims are Indonesian. Can you tell an Indonesian muslim from, say, a Philippino catholic or a Singapore protestant by looking at him? I seriously doubt it. Ignorance and bigotry hand in hand, riding strongly as usual.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #60 December 29, 2009 QuoteYou can't even call someone from Mexico 'Mexican' any more. Says who? When did referring to a foreign national by their nationality become offensive?-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #61 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote (And I fail to see how describing someone as "muslim" helps any more in a description than describing someone as "mormon" or "lutheran".) "Muslim" is a generalization true... but chances are if you put a muslim, a mormon and a lutheran in a line-up you would be able to pick out the muslim by that very description. The majority of muslims will fit a certain description just as the majority of mormons will also fit a certain description. So yes, even though it is a generalization it can be helpful in a description. Ummm - the majority of muslims are Indonesian. Can you tell an Indonesian muslim from, say, a Philippino catholic or a Singapore protestant by looking at him? I seriously doubt it. Ignorance and bigotry hand in hand, riding strongly as usual. Please... you cannot tell me that Muslims (men in particular) don't follow a general description. The Muslim culture usually follows certain customs set forth by the profit Muhammad. Muslim men TEND to have muslim names, they tend to wear customary clothing, they tend not to shave their beards, they tend to hold prayer 5 times a day. This does not go for all muslims but MOST muslim men follow these customs. Just like one can tend to spot a true hippie when you see one, you can spot a true Muslim when you see one. You don't believe this to be true???????? ETA: just because I know the basic differences between Muslims, mormons, jews, catholics, etc... does not make me a bigot and certainly not ignorant. But I know in your world ignorance is bliss.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #62 December 30, 2009 Quote Please... you cannot tell me that Muslims (men in particular) don't follow a general description. over 70% of the muslims in the U.S for example are either European, African American, or South Asian. I live in a city with many european muslims, some even live right next door to me....they look like Polish Catholics. Here in Detroit there are many African American Muslims...they look like black people. I've seen many South Asians...couldn't tell you what religion they belong to. There are also many Arabic Muslims here too, many are as you describe, but yet some just look like Arabs with a flannel shirt, jeans, boots, a decent car with some tunes and a bag of weed. I feel pretty confident saying that most muslims don't follow a general description...you would too, but you just don't see them.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #63 December 30, 2009 The Muslim culture usually follows certain customs set forth by the profit Muhammad. Muslim men TEND to have muslim names, they tend to wear customary clothing, they tend not to shave their beards, they tend to hold prayer 5 times a day. This does not go for all muslims but MOST muslim men follow these customs. So the above statement does not describe Muslims????? --- and I might as well say it again... I know this does not describe ALL Muslims. Next I suppose your going to tell me how different all Orthodox Jews are.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #64 December 30, 2009 I've got a question about the Underpants Bomber. If the bomb had gone off it would have blown his dick off. What would he do with the 72 virgins then? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #65 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote (And I fail to see how describing someone as "muslim" helps any more in a description than describing someone as "mormon" or "lutheran".) "Muslim" is a generalization true... but chances are if you put a muslim, a mormon and a lutheran in a line-up you would be able to pick out the muslim by that very description. The majority of muslims will fit a certain description just as the majority of mormons will also fit a certain description. So yes, even though it is a generalization it can be helpful in a description. Ummm - the majority of muslims are Indonesian. Can you tell an Indonesian muslim from, say, a Philippino catholic or a Singapore protestant by looking at him? I seriously doubt it. Ignorance and bigotry hand in hand, riding strongly as usual. Please... you cannot tell me that Muslims (men in particular) don't follow a general description. The Muslim culture usually follows certain customs set forth by the profit Muhammad. Muslim men TEND to have muslim names, they tend to wear customary clothing, they tend not to shave their beards, they tend to hold prayer 5 times a day. This does not go for all muslims but MOST muslim men follow these customs. Just like one can tend to spot a true hippie when you see one, you can spot a true Muslim when you see one. You don't believe this to be true???????? ETA: just because I know the basic differences between Muslims, mormons, jews, catholics, etc... does not make me a bigot and certainly not ignorant. But I know in your world ignorance is bliss. You just display ignorance.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #66 December 30, 2009 QuoteThe Muslim culture usually follows certain customs set forth by the profit Muhammad. Muslim men TEND to have muslim names, they tend to wear customary clothing, they tend not to shave their beards, they tend to hold prayer 5 times a day. This does not go for all muslims but MOST muslim men follow these customs. So the above statement does not describe Muslims????? I'm currently in Iraq, which I think you'll acknowledge is a largely Muslim country. Most of the young men I meet on a daily basis don't have beards. Most dress in western clothing almost exclusively. Those who wear traditional Arabic clothing tend to also have western style clothing they can wear, depending on the event. And claiming that most Muslims pray 5 times a day is like claiming most Catholics go to Mass every Sunday. Also, every single one of the customs you've mentioned can be changed prior to showing up at the airport, making its use for screening potential terror candidates absolutely useless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #67 December 30, 2009 Quote Quote The Muslim culture usually follows certain customs set forth by the profit Muhammad. Muslim men TEND to have muslim names, they tend to wear customary clothing, they tend not to shave their beards, they tend to hold prayer 5 times a day. This does not go for all muslims but MOST muslim men follow these customs. So the above statement does not describe Muslims????? I'm currently in Iraq, which I think you'll acknowledge is a largely Muslim country. Most of the young men I meet on a daily basis don't have beards. Most dress in western clothing almost exclusively. Those who wear traditional Arabic clothing tend to also have western style clothing they can wear, depending on the event. And claiming that most Muslims pray 5 times a day is like claiming most Catholics go to Mass every Sunday. Also, every single one of the customs you've mentioned can be changed prior to showing up at the airport, making its use for screening potential terror candidates absolutely useless. Sometimes you have to wonder what certain peoples agenda's really are. I wonder if making all of the people with TANS fly on special airplanes where they are all strapped into their seats for the whole flight would make these guys happy.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #68 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe Muslim culture usually follows certain customs set forth by the profit Muhammad. Muslim men TEND to have muslim names, they tend to wear customary clothing, they tend not to shave their beards, they tend to hold prayer 5 times a day. This does not go for all muslims but MOST muslim men follow these customs. So the above statement does not describe Muslims????? I'm currently in Iraq, which I think you'll acknowledge is a largely Muslim country. Most of the young men I meet on a daily basis don't have beards. Most dress in western clothing almost exclusively. Those who wear traditional Arabic clothing tend to also have western style clothing they can wear, depending on the event. And claiming that most Muslims pray 5 times a day is like claiming most Catholics go to Mass every Sunday. Also, every single one of the customs you've mentioned can be changed prior to showing up at the airport, making its use for screening potential terror candidates absolutely useless. Ugh.... My point is this: I will make this as simple as I can for you, and you, and you. If I asked you to post a picture of someone most resembling the following groups of people do you think you would be able to do it. -Orthodox Jew -Rastafarian -Cowboy -Muslim -Buddhist Monk Feel free to use 'Google Images'. I think it will help you out. The fact is, as I stated in my initial post that although these are generalizations and not representative of ALL they are still descriptions. Now I'm sure those of you who are arguing against this point will dodge this challenge... and come back with one of your 'I know you are but what am I' reply's. So please give me a simple "yes or no" answer to this question: If I used 'Google Images' to find a picture representative of the aforementioned groups of people and showed them to the average person, do you think they would be able to identify which group the person in the picture most resembled?*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #69 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe Muslim culture usually follows certain customs set forth by the profit Muhammad. Muslim men TEND to have muslim names, they tend to wear customary clothing, they tend not to shave their beards, they tend to hold prayer 5 times a day. This does not go for all muslims but MOST muslim men follow these customs. So the above statement does not describe Muslims????? I'm currently in Iraq, which I think you'll acknowledge is a largely Muslim country. Most of the young men I meet on a daily basis don't have beards. Most dress in western clothing almost exclusively. Those who wear traditional Arabic clothing tend to also have western style clothing they can wear, depending on the event. And claiming that most Muslims pray 5 times a day is like claiming most Catholics go to Mass every Sunday. Also, every single one of the customs you've mentioned can be changed prior to showing up at the airport, making its use for screening potential terror candidates absolutely useless. Ugh.... My point is this: I will make this as simple as I can for you, and you, and you. If I asked you to post a picture of someone most resembling the following groups of people do you think you would be able to do it. -Orthodox Jew -Rastafarian -Cowboy -Muslim -Buddhist Monk Feel free to use 'Google Images'. I think it will help you out. The fact is, as I stated in my initial post that although these are generalizations and not representative of ALL they are still descriptions. Now I'm sure those of you who are arguing against this point will dodge this challenge... and come back with one of your 'I know you are but what am I' reply's. So please give me a simple "yes or no" answer to this question: If I used 'Google Images' to find a picture representative of the aforementioned groups of people and showed them to the average person, do you think they would be able to identify which group the person in the picture most resembled? I think you're confusing "Muslim" with "Arab" with "terrorist". Not all Muslims are Arabs (in fact, the vast majority aren't) and therefore don't conform to Arabian dress norms. A Muslim in Saudi Arabia doesn't look like a Muslim in Nigeria doesn't look like a Muslim in Somalia doesn't look like a Muslim in Indonesia doesn't look like a Muslim in Afghanistan etc. To complicate matters, Muslims from any of those countries can choose to dress in the tradition of their country or, as more and more are doing, choose to dress in the western style. Finally, regardless of how an individual Muslim may dress, he/she can choose to dress/appear in a completely different way prior to showing up at the airport. It wouldn't be that hard for Osama bin Laden to shave his beard and throw on some western style clothes and show up at the airport next to you in line, looking like a perfectly normal guy. Which means trying to pick out the Muslims for special screening is a completely useless technique for trying to prevent terror attacks. Also, it dehumanizes approximately a sixth of the population of the world. Being dehumanized tends to make people angry, which tends to make them want to blow stuff up, so your plan to search all the Muslims would likely increase terrorist attacks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #70 December 30, 2009 Quote Not all Muslims are Arabs (in fact, the vast majority aren't) and therefore don't conform to Arabian dress norms. A Muslim in Saudi Arabia doesn't look like a Muslim in Nigeria doesn't look like a Muslim in Somalia doesn't look like a Muslim in Indonesia doesn't look like a Muslim in Afghanistan etc. To complicate matters, Muslims from any of those countries can choose to dress in the tradition of their country or, as more and more are doing, choose to dress in the western style. Finally, regardless of how an individual Muslim may dress, he/she can choose to dress/appear in a completely different way prior to showing up at the airport. It wouldn't be that hard for Osama bin Laden to shave his beard and throw on some western style clothes and show up at the airport next to you in line, looking like a perfectly normal guy. Which means trying to pick out the Muslims for special screening is a completely useless technique for trying to prevent terror attacks. Also, it dehumanizes approximately a sixth of the population of the world. Being dehumanized tends to make people angry, which tends to make them want to blow stuff up, so your plan to search all the Muslims would likely increase terrorist attacks. I agree with your statement... I don't know where you found this from though: >>"so your plan to search all the Muslims" I never mentioned anything about searching anyone, security profiling, terrorists, airplanes, etc... Try to keep it to what I write and not what you assume I think. My point (as it started and still is) is that these terms can be used as a description to a group of people and nothing more. AGAIN, I KNOW THIS IS NOT ACCURATE TO ALL IN ANY SAID GROUP. And just for the record I don't think anyone should be equating Muslims as terrorists or vice versa.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #71 December 30, 2009 QuoteIf I asked you to post a picture of someone most resembling the following groups of people do you think you would be able to do it. -Orthodox Jew Here's one. Boy, does he look typical. Keep it up. You're digging yourself deeper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #72 December 30, 2009 Quote Quote If I asked you to post a picture of someone most resembling the following groups of people do you think you would be able to do it. -Orthodox Jew Here's one. Boy, does he look typical. Keep it up. You're digging yourself deeper. And here's a Muslim for him. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #73 December 30, 2009 Quote Next I suppose your going to tell me how different all Orthodox Jews are. now there might actually be some reasoning behind that... Orthodox Jews tend to marry and mate with only other Orthodox Jews. This limits their genetic diversity and would tend to make certain features more prominent. They also tend to live in tight-knit communities and have similar behaviors. This also would make them distinguishable in a group.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #74 December 30, 2009 so this is interesting. (and in some cases humorous) here's the first link images.google.com found for the following Quote -Orthodox Jew -Rastafarian -Cowboy -Muslim -Buddhist Monk what's doubly interesting with regards to this discussion, is that they all look pretty stereotypical except for the "Muslim" image. (well... ok, the "Cowboy" result isn't very stereotypical either) However, if that search is changed to "Muslim Man" the results become more stereotypical. Muslim Man-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #75 December 30, 2009 Here's another typical muslim - former leader of the most populous muslim nation on Earth.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
