turtlespeed 226 #176 December 28, 2009 QuoteQuote Nope. The fine is, IIRC, $750 - still less than what people would be paying for insurance. AFAIR it is $750 or 2% of your income, whatever is higher, capped on the cost of the cheapest insurance plan. So if one is making 100K, the fine could be $2000. And the fine can go up if non-compliance is high. So - just so I have this straight . . . Hypothetically - I can be a packer for a DZ making cash money - not paying any taxes because on paper I don't work. In the process of packing I get hurt. I go to the doctor and get a bill for 10000. I have contributed nothing in the way of taxes. BUT you are now stuck with my bill and it is now everyone else's duty and responsibility to pay for my injury. . . . and you are OK with this. In fact you openly support it. further, because you support this ideal so much, you pay extra to make sure that everyone has their share, right?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #177 December 28, 2009 Quote Bull Shit! 1 - Yes 2 - Yes 3 - Yes Good! So since you're so rich that paying 100K for a surgery is pocket money for you, a small tax increase to help those who're not as fortunate as you should not be a problem either. Quote 4 - If you sit down at a meeting and agree on terms - you "usually" get a better rate by saying - "I'll pay cash" and have it on hand to do so - it's a great negotiation technique. Sure - if you have this amount of cash in hand. But it looks like vast majority of the people do not. Even those who can, prefer to invest it instead.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #178 December 28, 2009 Quote Good! So since you're so rich that paying 100K for a surgery is pocket money for you, It's called proper planning, investing, and diversification. I'm not "so rich" as you would put it - but I have taken steps, and worked hard for what I have put away, and the safeguards and hedges I used were not that hard to figure out. If I can do it - so can just about everyone everyone else. Those that can't can be taken care of through the funding of those that support this horse shit. Quotea small tax increase to help those who're not as fortunate as you should not be a problem either. Absolutely - in fact I do - but all I demand is the choice and control of where and to what the funds go toward and get used for. Your point is mute as I do donate to charities. But I choose which ones I support. I will not support a charity that the option is taken away from me in that regard. if I cannot support a charity as I see fit - I do not and will not willingly support that charity.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #179 December 28, 2009 Quote Hypothetically - I can be a packer for a DZ making cash money - not paying any taxes because on paper I don't work. In the process of packing I get hurt. I go to the doctor and get a bill for 10000. I have contributed nothing in the way of taxes. BUT you are now stuck with my bill and it is now everyone else's duty and responsibility to pay for my injury. This is exactly how it works right now - he goes to ER, does not pay, and then files for bankruptcy leaving us with the bill - so such cases would not bring any NEW expenses. What would bring savings is that after this injury no insurance company would take him for pre-existing conditions, making him "permanently uninsured" - even though he may be willing to pay for insurance, not wanting to go through bankruptcy next time he gets injured. Also, in my opinion, your example is quite limited. Not everyone in America is working for cash, and even some packers have a job which pays wages - which will make him eligible to federal subsidy to buy health insurance.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #180 December 28, 2009 QuoteQuote Hypothetically - I can be a packer for a DZ making cash money - not paying any taxes because on paper I don't work. In the process of packing I get hurt. I go to the doctor and get a bill for 10000. I have contributed nothing in the way of taxes. BUT you are now stuck with my bill and it is now everyone else's duty and responsibility to pay for my injury. This is exactly how it works right now - he goes to ER, does not pay, and then files for bankruptcy leaving us with the bill - so such cases would not bring any NEW expenses. What would bring savings is that after this injury no insurance company would take him for pre-existing conditions, making him "permanently uninsured" - even though he may be willing to pay for insurance, not wanting to go through bankruptcy next time he gets injured. Also, in my opinion, your example is quite limited. Not everyone in America is working for cash, and even some packers have a job which pays wages - which will make him eligible to federal subsidy to buy health insurance. But the example is FAR too common - fix THAT problem and healthcare cost will decrease - sometimes you gotta stick to your principals and let life be hard for the ones that don't want to do the right thing instead of being a bleeding heart.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #181 December 28, 2009 Quote It's called proper planning, investing, and diversification. I'm not "so rich" as you would put it - but I have taken steps, and worked hard for what I have put away, and the safeguards and hedges I used were not that hard to figure out. If I can do it - so can just about everyone everyone else. Well, I guess only few people can afford keeping 100K around to spend just in case they got into car accident, so even those who have extra 100K would likely to invest them, and buy insurance instead. As I said before, I'd be ok if the requirement was to either maintain health insurance, or post something like a 100K bond, but I don't think anyone would actually use this bond option. Quote Absolutely - in fact I do - but all I demand is the choice and control of where and to what the funds go toward and get used for. And you're right. Did you contact your Congressperson/Senator already?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #182 December 29, 2009 Quote But the example is FAR too common - fix THAT problem and healthcare cost will decrease - I wonder how exactly would you realistically fix THAT problem?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #183 December 29, 2009 Quote And you're right. Did you contact your Congressperson/Senator already? 83 letters and counting.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #184 December 29, 2009 QuoteWhat would bring savings is that after this injury no insurance company would take him for pre-existing conditions, making him "permanently uninsured" - even though he may be willing to pay for insurance, not wanting to go through bankruptcy next time he gets injured. That is incorrect.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #185 December 29, 2009 Quote Quote But the example is FAR too common - fix THAT problem and healthcare cost will decrease - I wonder how exactly would you realistically fix THAT problem? Enforcement of the law. DO NOT allow undocumented workers jobs, and do not allow jobs that are not reported to the government. Simply pay the taxes that are owed.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #186 December 29, 2009 Quote Enforcement of the law. DO NOT allow undocumented workers jobs, and do not allow jobs that are not reported to the government. Simply pay the taxes that are owed. You probably missed the word "exactly". So how exactly would you enforce this particular law? Have an IRS inspector assigned to each dropzone?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #187 December 29, 2009 QuoteThat is incorrect. There were several examples quoted right in this forum.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #188 December 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteThat is incorrect. There were several examples quoted right in this forum. Maybe you should actually look up the laws involved, then - it'll save you a replay of the gun thread.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #189 December 29, 2009 Quote Quote Enforcement of the law. DO NOT allow undocumented workers jobs, and do not allow jobs that are not reported to the government. Simply pay the taxes that are owed. You probably missed the word "exactly". So how exactly would you enforce this particular law? Have an IRS inspector assigned to each dropzone? Spot Checks?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #190 December 29, 2009 Quote>Red herring - there is no special "non-homeowner tax". I'm afraid there is. Here's the link to the IRS page: http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=204671,00.html What you linked to is a tax credit towards your owed taxes. "Homebuyer Credit Expanded and Extended" "The Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 established a tax credit" "The credit is claimed using" What you are implying is that the government is passing bills requiring us to buy homes and penalizing us if we don't. One could suppose from your argument that the taxes you pay should go to buy me a home instead.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #191 December 29, 2009 QuoteQuote Hypothetically - I can be a packer for a DZ making cash money - not paying any taxes because on paper I don't work. In the process of packing I get hurt. I go to the doctor and get a bill for 10000. I have contributed nothing in the way of taxes. BUT you are now stuck with my bill and it is now everyone else's duty and responsibility to pay for my injury. This is exactly how it works right now - he goes to ER, does not pay, and then files for bankruptcy leaving us with the bill - so such cases would not bring any NEW expenses. The ERs will only take on life threatening issues. If he has a serious injury that can be ignored, or given a bandaid instead of a fix, they will go that route, or maybe he gets to do a few weeks/months of waiting for someone to fund it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #192 December 29, 2009 QuoteSpot Checks? What for? An IRS inspector does a spot check on a dropzone, finds a bunch of packers (none of whose is illegal Mexican) working for cash. What's next?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #193 December 29, 2009 QuoteMaybe you should actually look up the laws involved, then Reference, please. Are you talking about federal laws, or laws of some specific state?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #194 December 29, 2009 Quote The ERs will only take on life threatening issues. If he has a serious injury that can be ignored, or given a bandaid instead of a fix, they will go that route Well, to make sure the issue is not life threatening, they would have to admit him into ER and have a doctor checking him, maybe even do an x-ray or even ultrasound. Even if he is released right away, most of the ER costs are already spent. I wonder if you been to ER waiting room, how many people there do you think had any life-threatening condition?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #195 December 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteSpot Checks? What for? An IRS inspector does a spot check on a dropzone, finds a bunch of packers (none of whose is illegal Mexican) working for cash. What's next? Fines and penalties to the DZ for allowing it.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #196 December 29, 2009 QuoteFines and penalties to the DZ for allowing it. You must be kidding, right? Since when is it illegal to receive compensation for services rendered in cash?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #197 December 29, 2009 QuoteQuote The ERs will only take on life threatening issues. If he has a serious injury that can be ignored, or given a bandaid instead of a fix, they will go that route Well, to make sure the issue is not life threatening, they would have to admit him into ER and have a doctor checking him, maybe even do an x-ray or even ultrasound. Even if he is released right away, most of the ER costs are already spent. I wonder if you been to ER waiting room, how many people there do you think had any life-threatening condition? No, the question is how many of them get $10k in work done. You're presupposing a lot of work for an undefined 'injury' here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #198 December 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteFines and penalties to the DZ for allowing it. You must be kidding, right? Since when is it illegal to receive compensation for services rendered in cash? It is not illegal to receive cash compensation - it's illegal to not report it. I believe this is in place for a reason - granted a packer probably doesn't make the minimum to qualify . . . http://www.irs.gov/compliance/article/0,,id=180171,00.html . . . and this > http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html should answer your legality questions.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #199 December 29, 2009 QuoteNo, the question is how many of them get $10k in work done. You're presupposing a lot of work for an undefined 'injury' here. Not me. I'm just following Turtle's hypothetic situation.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #200 December 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteMaybe you should actually look up the laws involved, then Reference, please. Are you talking about federal laws, or laws of some specific state? Federal Law - specifically, HIPAA.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
