Senate Clears Way for Vote on Healthcare before Christmas

[normiss 917]

I don't currently own a home.
I more than make up for that deduction.
Surely I'm not alone.


quite a stretch there Bill....

[billvon 3,176]

>I don't currently own a home.
>I more than make up for that deduction.

It's fortunate you can afford the penalty, then.

[normiss 917]

Agreed, much like you I would assume.
Have plenty of friends, business owners, and even my adult children who cannot afford it now.

I will suggest they move to Louisiana.

[mnealtx 0]

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Agreed, much like you I would assume.
Have plenty of friends, business owners, and even my adult children who cannot afford it now.

I will suggest they move to Louisiana.

Make it Nebraska - the new dumping ground for Medicare patients, now that Reid found Nelson's price.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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-- If you're in a union, and your CBA has secured you a host of very good benefits, you're going to lose them or you're going to pay more for them, why? Because the taxes on "Cadillac" plans go up.

C'mon, what is the Caddilac limit for this plan, like 23K per family? How many union members, except union bosses, have such a plan?

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-- If you insure your family, you're going to have to decrease your coverage or pay more for it, why? Because the tax on "Cadillac" plans is based on cost, not coverage.

No, the limit for families is larger - 23K family over 8K individual.

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-- If you own/run a small business, you're going to have to decrease your coverage (possibly against the law of the new bill), pay more for the coverage you have, or decrease your headcount to cover the cost of the coverage through your provider or through the government co-op.

Why would I?

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-- If you're old and on medicare, you're in for a whole bunch of surprises

List the surprises, please.

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-- If you're on medicare plus, start shopping for coverages because medicare plus is decimated under these provisions.

So?

As usual, a lot of propaganda and not a single fact.

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Of course these bills are loaded with pork as well, to help cushion the blow to those that would lose their seat next November.

Of course - like every previous bill.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kelpdiver 2]

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C'mon, what is the Caddilac limit for this plan, like 23K per family? How many union members, except union bosses, have such a plan?

Enough that they have been lobbying on this element.

[mnealtx 0]

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C'mon, what is the Caddilac limit for this plan, like 23K per family? How many union members, except union bosses, have such a plan?

Enough that they have been lobbying on this element.

As I recall, the longshoremen are exempted - or maybe it was the teamsters?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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Enough that they have been lobbying on this element.

This may as well mean that only union bosses have it.
Anyway, with average family insurance cost of 16K a year, tax on 23K plan sounds very reasonable. Not to mention that union members are not better than anyone else, why should they get a free pass?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Depends on how that data is massaged.
The doctors I've talked to in Florida, not including the ones that left due to the inability to afford liability insurance, all say it is their single biggest expense.

The problem I see is that if tort reform passes, the only winners will be insurers, who will just pack more profit - at expense of consumers who would lose important rights.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[1969912 0]

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C'mon, what is the Caddilac limit for this plan, like 23K per family? How many union members, except union bosses, have such a plan?

Enough that they have been lobbying on this element.

As I recall, the longshoremen are exempted - or maybe it was the teamsters?

Wouldn't surprise me at all...

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[lawrocket 3]

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Oh yes.. the party line vote is FAR more important than actually helping all the people who do not have the coverage that the PEOPLE have provided you.

Somehow, I think Max losing his leg in service of the PEOPLE and Joe Snuffy choosing not to get insurance to pass the costs on to the PEOPLE are different things.


[Reply] people deserve to have a better system than the current cluster fuck that does nothing but rip people off on a daily basis.

[Amazon 7]

Why?


Something about a society being judged by how it treats its least fortunate members

Oh thats right... they need to pull themselves up by their boot straps.. even if they dont even have the fucking boots

You would think in a country that trys to fool eveyone about how CHRISTIAN it is....and all those "compassionate" conservatives who style them selves as part of the afromentioned group... could do better.

Yes MAX did serve... so did a lot of other people and they now have NO medical care whatsoever... not insurance.. but NO medical care of any kind other than MAYBE emergency room service.. or disservice as the case may be.

[kallend 2,230]

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Depends on how that data is massaged.

Massaged the way the CBO massages it.
www.newamerica.net/blog/new-health-dialogue/2009/health-care-cbo-releases-new-tort-reform-saving-estimates-15337

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The doctors I've talked to in Florida, not including the ones that left due to the inability to afford liability insurance, all say it is their single biggest expense.

Anecdote is not data.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 917]

God forbid a real life scenario enter your idea of government datum.

Statistics and data are generally used much like a drunk uses a lamp post.
More for support than illumination.

In Florida, liability insurance plays heavily into health care costs.
American Heart Association

Tort reform is good for gun manufacturers, why not the medical industry?

[kallend 2,230]

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God forbid a real life scenario enter your idea of government datum.

Statistics and data are generally used much like a drunk uses a lamp post.
More for support than illumination.

In Florida, liability insurance plays heavily into health care costs.
American Heart Association

Tort reform is good for gun manufacturers, why not the medical industry?

So you have NO data, just anecdotes. OK.

(Didn't say it wasn't a good idea, just that it won't save much money, and that IS from data.)

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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So you have NO data, just anecdotes.

and that's what healthcare is, antidotes

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 917]

sure, ignore the data that you don't agree with.
We're used to that.

[kallend 2,230]

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sure, ignore the data that you don't agree with.
We're used to that.

There were NO data in that article on the likely cost savings. Try again.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 917]

Never said there was....

[kallend 2,230]

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Never said there was....

So it was irrelevant to a discussion on your claim HERE then. Just blowing smoke.

You have NOTHING to rebut the CBO's data.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 917]

It is relevant to most folks.
You on the other hand....

[kallend 2,230]

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It is relevant to most folks.
You on the other hand....

You have nothing to rebut the CBO's estimate that I posted, do you? Nothing! Just blowing GOP flavored smoke.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 917]

Why do you simply jump to accuse me of being a republican?
Weak man, very weak.
Name calling is sofa king mature.


I am left to assume that the CBO's estimate of $54 BILLION in savings over only 2 years via tort reform is lost on you? Is $54 BILLION not sufficient enough of a savings to matter to you????

[loumeinhart 0]

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Nope. It solves a few of the current problems with healthcare

I think that the one and only problem with healthcare is COST. To say that Americans don't have access to healthcare is an outright lie. Everyone (including pre-existing conditions) has access to healthcare. It's just a matter of cost. That's the problem. For instance even if you have a history of cancer, diabetes, obesity etc, you should still be able to find an expensive plan that suits you.

The current bill (my understanding of it) does nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare.

For instance,

1. Why can't I purchase health insurance across state lines? (competition like auto insurance)

2. Why can't I choose 'menu options' for my plan? (I don't want a mamogram or an abortion or a pap smear)

3. Tort Reform.. Why can't a doctor open up his very own hospital (no regulations) and let the public decide. He could advertise "Come to me.. I'm cheap and uninsured.." Hell, I'd go!

Why doesn't someone start an insurance company that 'cares' ? Go ahead! Show us wqhat real compassion is!! Open a health insurance company that puts the others to shame!! ..

[loumeinhart 0]

Kallen are you an I agreeing on Tort Reform?