Pot smokers

[masterrig 1]

Quote

I used to but don't anymore for a variety of reasons.

I didn't make it pulic when I did because:

1 - It's illegal.

2 - You never know who is going to get all judgemental about it. See post #3.

And I personally think the "It funds criminal gangs" rationale is the best argument for legalization.

Look at Prohibition (alcohol) here in the US back in the 1920's. Very similar situation.
Those who wanted it could get it, and the procurement of it (both manufaturing and smuggling) gave rise to the modern Mafia. There were criminal gangs before Prohibition, but they didn't have the opportunities to make incredible amounts of money that Prohibition offered.

Take away the exclusivity for the criminal gangs by allowing anyone to grow, transport and sell it (under controls and taxes similar to alcohol or tobacco) and the competition will drive profits below (and workloads above) what the gangs are willing to accept.

They are smuggling cigarettes because of the extreme differences in prices due to different taxes. If you take away the "criminal premium" on pot, you could add a pretty hefty tax, and still have prices below the current "street" price. That would reduce the profits (for the businesses, not the government) to below what the gangs would be willing to work for.

During prohibition, you could go to a doctor and with a wink and a nod, get a prescription for 'medicinal use only' labeled whiskey. Take it home and get drunk! Is that what 'medicinal use only' pot is?


Chuck

[stratostar 5]

While I'm sure you won't agree with anything I say on this matter, I'm going to go ahead and say it.....

I think your wrong about most people here in the US that don't see the big picture as to the gangs and border wars. First of all if you take the "illegal money" out of the loop and stop taking peoples property because they home grow a few for personal use and then throw them in prison for it too. Would that stop the Mex & bikers, nope they'll move on with all the other shit their moving already like meth.

But all these farmers out here in fly over country who can't afford to keep the family farms, could make good money growing feral hemp and even THC strains for a number of uses, hell I could take you down the road here for mile after mile and show you fields of feral weed that comes back year after year, the county will be happy to come out and spray some nasty shit on it for you, so that when it rains next the shit can run off into the ditch and then find it's way to the river...... Funny thing about the river, if you go down there today there is a big sign posted there saying not to eat fish out of the river due all the shit now in the river that "we" put there. But if you go back the next season to the same spot the county just sprayed last season, the "ditch weed" will still be there for the county to spray again and the runoff cycle starts all over again. (The current DZ I jump at has a LZ that is surrounded by feral hemp.)

That same ditch weed out here that is everywhere acres and acres of it, well you can't farm it for hemp like the pioneers did because if you even so much as touch the plant and a cop sees you do it they will bust you for growing or harvesting, it happens every summer here to some young kids who come from places in this country where wild hemp don't grow, stops to pick it, it looks real good, smells real good too but is not smoke friendly and the locals all know that. Our great grandfathers and grandpa's are the one who grew the shit we needed it grow the country and to fight WW2. And what about bio diesel from the hemp seed oil? Oh that's right if I try to pick some to find out I could be locked up for doing so.

Now I've seen and heard news reports here generated by the DEA and state cops who try to say the "cartels" come here to harvest "ditch weed" so they can mix in with the good pot, that is the biggest line of bullshit! No one has ever harvested large amounts of bunk "ditch weed" to thin out their good weed, because any good dope dealer wants return customers not people pissed off with a major head headache talking shit about them around town, good way to have someone tip off the narco cops to kick in your doors.

Now if I didn't have to worry about you and your cop buddies kick'in my door and taking every thing I own and worked my ass off for, along with taking my kids and bank funds, I would have no problem growing a small garden for my personal use. By doing so I would not be part of the cycle of "illegal dope trade", so my money would not be funding mexican cartels and biker gangs, that money could be spent in my local community instead of "going to mexico" as the Government and cops claim.

I've never scored from anyone at my local grade or middle school, and if fact I'm sure if you took the "legal" factor out of play a large number of "normally" law abiding citizens wouldn't have to live in fear of the police state and would remain productive members of the community. Here in my state (a non medical state) there is a huge lack of funding, and a large number of pot users in prison at ABOUT 50K a year or more to store them, it seems to me that that money would be better spent going to our schools, the same schools the state just took 3.5 million dollars of funding from in my local community, that don't count the school funding cut state wide.

In fact I'm pretty sure that if legal taxed pot were to be allowed in my state the tax money generated could be directed towards the schools and other social services and state funding needs and we could stop housing non violent pot users and save that space for the real people who need to locked up. There would a hell of a lot less money (at least the pot money) going to Mexico & Canada or gangs.

The other funny part of all this, is let look at how many billions of dollars we've spent after Nancy & Ronnie started "just say no", did it stop shit from coming in this country? NO! And now we have a much bigger problem to worry about coming across the border then weed, it's called towel heads who want to kill as many of us at they can, and you want me to believe that this cycle of dumping tons of money to fight weed/drugs is working, hell you law enforcement guys have not and can not stop the flow of drugs and people coming across the border and I'm to think the really bad towel head guys are not coming in the same way to blow us up..... Yea right!

It's way past time we start to be honest about where our tax dollars are going and being used for and IMHO it's time for many of the law enforcement community to look outside their "immediate bubble", while I understand those national guard guys who are racking up hours and hours of flight time searching the county for bubba billy's garden don't want to lose all that flight time and good pay, well maybe they should be redirected to work on keeping out the Mexicans or go look for Osama and stop the madness and waste of money.

Oh and for the record I don't smoke pot, can't afford the over inflated high prices now in the streets and I can't afford to risk my property or prison time to grow my own, just like many, many , many other law abiding citizens of this country.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[SpeedRacer 1]

don't blame the cops. It is their job to enforce the law as it stands.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Bodhisattva420 0]

Skeezy fucking stoners . . . don't they realize your suppose to get wasted and drive home from the DZ?

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Quote

don't blame the cops. It is their job to enforce the law as it stands.

+ 1

Always be kinder than you feel.

[skyrider 0]

Quote

While I'm sure you won't agree with anything I say on this matter, I'm going to go ahead and say it.....

I think your wrong about most people here in the US that don't see the big picture as to the gangs and border wars. First of all if you take the "illegal money" out of the loop and stop taking peoples property because they home grow a few for personal use and then throw them in prison for it too. Would that stop the Mex & bikers, nope they'll move on with all the other shit their moving already like meth.

But all these farmers out here in fly over country who can afford to keep the family farms, could make good money growing feral hemp and even THC strains for a number of uses, hell I could take you down the road here for mile after mile and show you fields of feral weed that comes back year after year, the county will be happy to come out and spray some nasty shit on it for you, so that when it rains next the shit can run off into the ditch and then find it's way to the river...... Funny thing about the river, if you go down there today there is a big sign posted there saying not to eat fish out of the river due all the shit now in the river that "we" put there. But if you go back the next season to the same spot the county just sprayed last season, the "ditch weed" will still be there for the county to spray again and the runoff cycle starts all over again. (The current DZ I jump at has a LZ that is surrounded by feral hemp.)

That same ditch weed out here that is everywhere acres and acres of it, well you can't farm it for hemp like the pioneers did because if you even so much as touch the plant and a cop sees you do it they will bust you for growing or harvesting, it happens every summer here to some young kids who come from places in this country where wild hemp don't grow, stops to pick it, it looks real good, smells real good too but is not smoke friendly and the locals all know that. Our great grandfathers and grandpa's are the one who grew the shit we needed it grow the country and to fight WW2. And what about bio diesel from the hemp seed oil? Oh that's right if I try to pick some to find out I could be locked up for doing so.

Now I've seen and heard news reports here generated by the DEA and state cops who try to say the "cartels" come here to harvest "ditch weed" so they can mix in with the good pot, that is the biggest line of bullshit! No one has ever harvested large amounts of bunk "ditch weed" to thin out their good weed, because any good dope dealer wants return customers not people pissed off with a major head headache talking shit about them around town, good way to have someone tip off the narco cops to kick in your doors.

Now if I didn't have to worry about you and your cop buddies kick'in my door and taking every thing I own and worked my ass off for, along with taking my kids and bank funds, I would have no problem growing a small garden for my personal use. By doing so I would not be part of the cycle of "illegal dope trade", so my money would not be funding mexican cartels and biker gangs, that money could be spent in my local community instead of "going to mexico" as the Government and cops claim.

I've never scored from anyone at my local grade or middle school, and if fact I'm sure if you took the "legal" factor out of play a large number of "normally" law abiding citizens would have to live in fear of the police state and would remain productive members of the community. Here in my state (a non medical state) there is a huge lack of funding, and a large number of pot users in prison at ABOUT 50K a year or more to store them, it seems to me that that money would be better spent going to our schools, the same schools the state just took 3.5 million dollars of funding from in my local community, that don't count the school funding cut state wide.

In fact I'm pretty sure that if legal taxed pot were to be allowed in my state the tax money generated could be directed towards the schools and other social services and state funding needs and we could stop housing non violent pot users and save that space for the real people who need to locked up. There would a hell of a lot less money (at least the pot money) going to Mexico & Canada or gangs.

The other funny part of all this, is let look at how many billions of dollars we've spent after Nancy & Ronnie started "just say no", did it stop shit from coming in this country? NO! And now we have a much bigger problem to worry about coming across the border then weed, it's called towel heads who want to kill as many of us at they can, and you want me to believe that this cycle of dumping tons of money to fight weed/drugs is working, hell you law enforcement guys have not and can not stop the flow of drugs and people coming across the border and I'm to think the really bad towel head guys are not coming in the same way to blow us up..... Yea right!

It's way past time we start to be honest about where our tax dollars are going and being used for and IMHO it's time for many of the law enforcement community to look outside their "immediate bubble", while I understand those national guard guys who are racking up hours and hours of flight time searching the county for bubba billy's garden don't want to lose all that flight time and good pay, well maybe they should be redirected to work on keeping out the Mexicans or go look for Osama and stop the madness and waste of money.

Oh and for the record I don't smoke pot, can't afford the over inflated high prices now in the streets and I can't afford to risk my property or prison time to grow my own, just like many, many , many other law abiding citizens of this country.

If yer that talkative without being high, please, never post while stoned!

[warpedskydiver 0]

Nice fashion statement there, was it earned or are you french?

[xtravrtsoul 0]

Quote

Quote

What people don't think about, are the number of people that touch that marijuana before it is broke down to that ounce or less that you have in your pocket. Estimates put the amount of marijuana grown in country (the US) is only about 5% of the total marijuana in the country.

So the marijuana is crossing the boarder is typically coming from Canada or Mexico. When it is coming from Mexico, its coming from the Cartels. When its coming from Canada, sometimes its still the Mexican Cartels, but then its sometimes other sources.

The violence that is occurring in Mexico from the Cartels is staggering. That violence has spilled over into border states. Most people try to ignore these things. They also tend to ignore it, thinking that it is only a Mexico problem.

Coming from Canada, you get another set of gang problems and violence. The "biker wars" that have been going on with the Bandidos and other 1%'er clubs have been for controlling territory and the drug trade.

So for everyone that believes that marijuana is a harmless drug, please look outside of your immediate bubble.

LOL, you can't honestly eblieve the biker wars are over drugs? watching too much SOA?

I've been around One percenters most my life, and they have to search and hunt for drugs, just like everyone else, so they Obviously are not controling the market!

Some members may dabble in the market for easy monkey, it is NOT a club wide thing!

The "wars" are over patches,and the right to claim areas...Just Macho BS! (Big reason I never joined) being a free person, to me, Is being an Outlaw! Not following club rules!

Thank you Skyrider for your post on that subject. It really pisses me off that the bike clubs get sucked into this.

You create life, life does not create you.

[xtravrtsoul 0]

Quote

don't blame the cops. It is their job to enforce the law as it stands.

He is not blaming the cops he is just using them as an example as to what this country will do. And hey his post makes total sense to me.

You create life, life does not create you.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

don't blame the cops. It is their job to enforce the law as it stands.

He is not blaming the cops he is just using them as an example as to what this country will do. And hey his post makes total sense to me.

I agree. Think of the millions of dollars wasted being allocated toward marijuana eradication, apprehension and prosecution. Money that could be better spent on [insert Democratic Party platform here], for example.

[airtwardo 7]

So for everyone that believes that marijuana is a harmless drug, please look outside of your immediate bubble.



***


Buzz kill.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

So for everyone that believes that marijuana is a harmless drug, please look outside of your immediate bubble.



***


Buzz kill.

Twardo, 19,565 posts and counting so far, and you still don't know how to use the little buttons on the postie thingie? Or is it the brownies?

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

So for everyone that believes that marijuana is a harmless drug, please look outside of your immediate bubble.



***


Buzz kill.

Twardo, 19,565 posts and counting so far, and you still don't know how to use the little buttons on the postie thingie? Or is it the brownies?

Wait What?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[rynodigsmusic 0]

"Herb" seems to be like any herb, good for something. Since it is illegal it is already surrounded by a stigma, regardless of its purposes for use, either medicinal, recreational, or even spiritual. I agree with a poster on here that said the reason people keep it quiet is because of the judgement associated with it. Just one example is assuming that someone cant be a safe skydiver because they smoke pot, or they cant be taken seriously (as if thats really a good thing)

I do believe however, that one should not be "high" while jumping, packing, rigging... manifest may be okay though (relax im just kidding), but I think the same thing about alcohol and other drugs as well. However, I know it does go on and to be honest, thats just an example of how eccentric skydivers really are, whether you agree or not, and no amount of "policing" will change that, just push it into a corner like this poster has observed.

As far as the leagalities are concerned, we have a long way to go as far as the majority realizing that marijuana is something that can be regulated just as alcohol. But I find it fascinating that we believe Guns, Alcohol, Tobacco are "legally (and morally) okay" but marijuana posession demands you go to jail, or be radically looked down upon. I think everyone should just lighten up a bit personally. Drug cartels are not about the drugs, they are about the money, the power, and the territory, they would sell sugar if it was illegal and they thought they could make alot of money off it. dont think so? Why this saying "Guns dont kill people, people kill people".

Edited to add: Plus I want to add that most smokers nowadays are finding their weed within our own borders, as it is being grown more and more and more in places you may least expect. And I certainly have never seen weed destroy the life of a man the way I have harder drugs, like meth, heroin, and crack. Although, it does tend to make people lazy, tired, and "unproductive" (if someone does see it that way)

When does too much of a good thing, become a bad thing? in regards to marijuana, we are tying to control something we cannot control at all. The only way you can "control" something is by trying to understand it. Just my two cents.

"We didn't start the fire"

[thrillstalker 0]

Quote

I detest smoking dope. That said, people who smoke it in an atmospere that won't even affect other's lives, or lifestyles, get after it. The use of this illicit drug is against the law, if you want to take a chance on being a criminal, smoke away. The use of cannibus sativa also increases the onset of lung cancer and a host of other dieseases,

Obey by the laws of your state. Prohibit the use of this dangerours drug at all cost where prohibited.

you actually wants some FACTS. here you go http://norml.org/

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[robskydiv 0]

Quote

Quote

People who feel that pot is a horrible drug and that it will ruin your life need to wake up. Like I said I put it in the same category as alcohol, some may say its even better than alcohol... no hangover the next day , dosen't make you a violent asshole etc...

I'm glad that my parents had the sence to sit me down and explain to me the differnce between the different types of drugs and how they can affect or totally fuck up your life. There are people out there that feel smoking a joint and smoking crack are one in the same. this is because of the attitude that ANY and ALL drugs will fuck up your life and make you a drain on society and a criminal...

I think if eveyone smoked a bit of pot once in a while the world would be a much better place

+1

[thrillstalker 0]

i am a regular smoker and if you dont agree with that i dont care. marijuana has less side effects than alochol and doesnt fuck you up near as bad. i have never known anyone who became an asshole out of nowhere because they got high, but i have seen it happen to a lot of people on alochol. the fact that you can be arrested and put in prison for a plant is ludicrous. there are currently 14 states that allow medical marijuana, now you can even get it in washington dc. the rest of the country will follow suite soon enough. you can call me a criminal, but ill call you a sheep, reefer madness is bullshit, just like anything else the government says in favor of marijuana prohibition. all the government needs to do is tax it and sale it. they will save 14billion dollars annually, which can go a long way in our economy.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

The use of cannibus sativa also increases the onset of lung cancer …

Incorrect.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

What people don't think about, are the number of people that touch that marijuana before it is broke down to that ounce or less that you have in your pocket. Estimates put the amount of marijuana grown in country (the US) is only about 5% of the total marijuana in the country.

So the marijuana is crossing the boarder is typically coming from Canada or Mexico. When it is coming from Mexico, its coming from the Cartels. When its coming from Canada, sometimes its still the Mexican Cartels, but then its sometimes other sources.

The violence that is occurring in Mexico from the Cartels is staggering. That violence has spilled over into border states. Most people try to ignore these things. They also tend to ignore it, thinking that it is only a Mexico problem.

Coming from Canada, you get another set of gang problems and violence. The "biker wars" that have been going on with the Bandidos and other 1%'er clubs have been for controlling territory and the drug trade.

So for everyone that believes that marijuana is a harmless drug, please look outside of your immediate bubble.

You've provided a great argument regarding how drug laws are more dangerous than the drugs they prohibit. All of the violence you cited is from the drug laws, not the drugs.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[happythoughts 0]

Before pot, I think that we need to solve the alcohol problem.

Alcohol is obviously the cause of all those gang wars
in Chicago and Canada.

If alcohol was legalized, criminals would just...

oh wait... never mind.


(edited to add... Speakers Corner in... 3... 2... )

[hcsvader 1]

Quote

It's a fucking plant.

How can people not see the absurdity of forbidding a certain plant to perform photosynthesis within our borders??

I don't agree with the "its a plant, it comes from the ground" argument. Cocaine come from a plant, Heroin comes from a plant. Putting pot in the same category as these drugs and teaching people that pot is just as dangerous is something that needs to change in our culture. When a teenager finally decides to smoke some pot they realize its not this horrible thing that everyone has been telling them it is. None of thier friends have died from overdosing on pot or are living on the streets living a life of crime and violence while tryig to get thier next fix.

Then one day someone offers them a line of coke or a hit from a crack pipe and they think, hey all that stuff I heard about pot destroying my life wasn't true, maybe its the same for this stuff. So thay give it a try, then they realize how much more fun, or how much more of a better high these drugs are. Only now, these drugs are starting to affect thier lives, maybe some of thier friends have died from over doses an maybe they are resortiing to crime to feed thier addictions.
I know this is how things went for some of my good friends in life.
The education I recieved in school and from the media regarding drugs was bullshit. Basically all it did was focus on identifying drugs and to "just say no" how to react to peer pressure, blah blah blah. It was fucking useless.
It was my parents who taught me about the dangers of different drugs, the reasons why different drugs are dangerous, why they make you feel a certain way etc.
When I was a teenager I was aware of the risks and rewards of different drugs, I was taught that there is a very big difference between smoking a joint and smoking meth. I was told that it wan't a huge deal to have a beer or smoke a joint once in a while. I was told the truth about drugs and left to make my own decisions. I was lucky to have been givin the tools I needed to make the right decisions.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

I don't agree with the "its a plant, it comes from the ground" argument. Cocaine come from a plant, Heroin comes from a plant. Putting pot in the same category as these drugs and teaching people that pot is just as dangerous is something that needs to change in our culture.

Didnt you just put pot in "that" category as well? Once again people are still blaming the weed instead of trying to understand the physcological dynamics of why some go to harder drugs in the first place. Either taught, like you, or not, like others, it doesnt mean your going to desire to try something as radical as sticking a needle in your arm.

Curiosity seems to play right along with peer pressure ect... ect..., but really its just the path and experiences of the person right? I do know recovering addicts who live incredibly fulfilling lives now. The more we put a stigma around pot, the more it sparks the curiosity. In Amsterdam, where its tolerated (legal in a quiet way), few Hollanders smoke on a regular basis. I want this to stay in the bonfire, but your post made me think, and I think alot when im around a bonfire and interesting discussions arise, so, what the problem is?

I was thinking that coke, heroin, meth, oxycontin ect.. are designed, and weed is not, its inhanced of course (like any useful herb is), but not really designed the way hard drugs are. But then, I thought, well, if I go and pick a bunch of poppies, or coca plants, or peyote for that matter, and lose my head, does it mean those should be legalized as well? Then I thought, what difference does it make, and I am understanding JCD38493's posts more and more. It seems to be the laws surrounding the drugs that cause most of the problems. If something is taboo or illegal, there seems to be an attraction to it by certain personalities, and by no means am I saying they are weaker personalities. But Im curious to what you all continue to think on the matter.

"We didn't start the fire"

[karenmeal 0]

Quote

My point in bringing this up is to help to get people to think about things outside of their immediate bubble. I don't think that 99% of marijuana users think about the large scale of where that little bit of personal use came from. What was involved, the costs in money, people and property. The whole scope of the situation.

There is no question that more people need to just think out of their bubbles in general. The same sort of things you've said about marijuana could be said of a number of other common place things that we consume. Ever purchase a diamond?

Legalizing marijuana would unquestionably reduce the violent crimes associated with its production and transport. Legalizing marijuana would also reduce wasteful spending on prisons and could help boost the economy. It would have to be done in an intelligent way, taxing it, prohibiting its import from certain areas, and putting into place laws about consumption/driving, that sort of thing.

If my husband and I grew a couple plants, who does that really affect negatively? We grow food in our greenhouse and solarium, will be raising bees for their honey so that we can make mead and will be raising chickens. If we grew some marijuana for personal consumption, who would it affect negatively?

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

If my husband and I grew a couple plants, who does that really affect negatively

Funny enough, someone would be offended somehow. This whole thread is really making me think, but there are few people on here who have admitted to being regular smokers, or pot growers, and surely for good reason (legalities/judgements ect) BUT... I wonder how many are and do? and what the discussions would be like if marijuana was never criminalized in the first place? I think the thinking would be alot more open and shared, but wonder what it would be like.

For instance, if a Rastafarian or someone from a culture that never recognized this particular herb the way Americans do, would post, what would they say? Great point on the diamonds by the way

Also, I wonder what would happen if skydiving was outlawed? Its not always understood by the general public, its an addiction (or can be viewed that way) that costs plenty and can take you away from the "world" to get your "fix". Its a good thing it is understood by at least those who can understand it. The more I think on this weed legalization, the more I favor its "regulated acceptance" on a moral and legal level... not to mention the benefits of the hemp material. Good or bad, weed aint going nowhere (so to speak).

"We didn't start the fire"

[Bolas 5]

We need to get out of the business of trying to legislate others morality on adults.

Legalize drugs, gambling everywhere, and prostitution. License and tax them. Turn the DEA into a section of the IRS. (don't even need to change the name)

Change all the penalties from prison sentences to hafty fines.

Personally I don't smoke pot for two reasons:
* Theoretically subjected to random drug tests,
* I don't hold it in my lungs right and end up wasting it.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.