rhys 0 #76 December 23, 2009 QuoteI definatly agree that there is something very strange about building 7 collapsing. This was a MAJOR structural failure. Look at building that fall after an earthquake, they o suffer majr structural damage and may be on fire as well... yet they dont implode into thier own footprint It being omitted from the 9/11 commission report altogether is also fishy. How was that building ever... 'insignificant'. Building 7 is still the 'smoking gun' of 9/11, we could be assured the truth if private investigators woud be allowed acces to 'any' of the evidence. I'm not holding my breath for that happening, though I wish everyday for it to happen."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #77 December 23, 2009 QuoteHe did however gain the false information from American Airlines themselves. No he didn't. He got it from a book by people who had spoken to AA. QuoteThey were the ones that origionally stated that there were not 'airphones' in that particular aircraft. No, they didn't. They said that there are not phones in their 757's, because that was the question they were asked. If they had been asked if there were phones in their 757's on 9/11/2001 they would have given the correct answer to that question - but it wasn't asked. QuoteThis makes the Olsen phone call 'possible' now but the fact that the FBI say the call was never connected still raises suspicion. Do you have a statement directly from the FBI to that effect? QuoteAnd once again as with the column, if the phone call did take place it still does not prove the official stroy to be correct. Right, because nothing does until everything does. The truthers can be proven wrong about a thousand things and it just doesn't matter, because they have no story of their own that needs evidence. But as long as they've still got one minute facet of the real story to cast doubt on they can happily sit there and believe they're still winning. One of the reasons why these conspiracy theories are so enduring, they're always just one fact away from victory. QuoteAn unscathed passport is recovered while a high proportion of the concrete was pulverised to dust. This passport is supposed to have been inside the same aircraft that produced a fire responsable for the collapsing these immense stuctures. Along with how much other paper/wood/fake pot-plant/otherwise flammable material that was thrown out unburned in the first debris plume? C'mon man, you must have spent enough time looking at the videos, you've seen all the shit that was thrown out of those towers.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #78 December 23, 2009 and what about the pentagon crash ? www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #79 December 23, 2009 I think if you read the discussion here you would see that there is an agreemnet between two very experienced welders that the column in the picture was cut with a torch, albeit sloppily. Of course, you are welcome to dispute that based on your own knowledge. The one very telling detail that shows it was cut post-collapse is the lack of debris inside the remaining portion. You failed to mention that. Building 7 is not mentioned in the 911 commision report for a very good reason....the report is about the towers, not building 7. No mention is otherwise made of any of the other buildings destroyed that day. Buildings that are buring suffer much different structural damage than those affected by earthquakes. Internal fires damage, well, internal structure. The same structure that is intentionally destoyed during demolition. Earthquakes tend to damage more on the perimeter of a structure leading to a much different type of collapse. The collapse of building 7 was exactly what would be expected from a building that had been buring internally, uncontrolled, for several hours.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #80 December 23, 2009 jakee already replied to this post but I have a few comments as well... QuoteThis makes the Olsen phone call 'possible' now but the fact that the FBI say the call was never connected still raises suspicion. This is something I can't readily find a source for. I looked for it for a while and the closest I came was a link to what appeared to have been an e-mail attachment on a webmail account (which is obviously now a broken link.) I understand this was supposedly in the context of a court case, which makes the details important. The only info I can find about the FBI and these phone calls states that four phone calls took place and not enough information was available to determine which two were the ones the Olsen's spoke of. (this is in the notes of section one of the 9/11 commission report) QuoteIf they are so right, as you would like to think, why don't they shut us all up once and for all by releasing images of a Commercial aircraft flying into the pentagon? I made an allusion to the availability of these videos in a previous post. Are you referring to anything beyond what's available here? That site is generally a good place to read through if you want more information about the flight 77 crash. QuoteWhy would they not let scientists test the dust samples thay have? Why would you surround Iran? These are the kinds of questions that, when listed one after the other like this, lend a sense of incoherency to the conspiracy theory. I don't even know what the conspiracy theory is anymore. I actually watched fahrenheit 911 and loose change (the first edition and one of the more recent ones) and with everyone referencing everyone else, and everyone updating and changing their story every two years, I have no idea what is being argued anymore. I have no idea what the conspiracy theorists still believe the US government was trying to accomplish. I have no idea what all these individual arguments about phone calls are trying to lead up to. The whole discussion seems hollow and painfully academic at this point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #81 December 23, 2009 Quote(doing searches on building demo just brings up a ton off 911 related misinformation) Try this: clickyMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #82 December 23, 2009 QuoteI think if you read the discussion here you would see that there is an agreemnet between two very experienced welders that the column in the picture was cut with a torch, albeit sloppily. Of course, you are welcome to dispute that based on your own knowledge. Quote \ actually 'he' said it is 'possible' for it to have been cut but not likely. And from his experience it dod not look as though it was cut. and as i said, this particular topic can be debated for ever more, and if it was cut by hand, Post collapse, it does not go anywhere in rendering the controlled demolition hypothesis. It was one simple observation. Try moving on and agreeing to disagree."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #83 December 23, 2009 Quote I actually watched fahrenheit 911 and loose change (the first edition and one of the more recent ones) and with everyone referencing everyone else, and everyone updating and changing their story every two years, I have no idea what is being argued anymore. I have no idea what the conspiracy theorists still believe the US government was trying to accomplish. I have no idea what all these individual arguments about phone calls are trying to lead up to. Internet debates have been compared to wrestling with a pig. In this case, it's wrestling a slaughterhouse full of greasy pigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #84 December 23, 2009 Quote Quote (doing searches on building demo just brings up a ton off 911 related misinformation) Try this: clicky I wonder how the tin haters will eplain away many of the points made in your link as well as what the monitors recorded? Oh, ya. They are in it too I guess"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #85 December 23, 2009 Why haven't you tried to explain why the column stubs are empty? As I said, they would be filled with debris if the Tin Hat theory of conrolled demolition is correct. We don't have to agree. We don't even have to agree to disagree. I have based my opinions on solid fact and scientific principles, you have based yours on Tin Hat websites and YouTube videos.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #86 January 28, 2010 QuoteWe don't have to agree. We don't even have to agree to disagree. I have based my opinions on solid fact and scientific principles, you have based yours on Tin Hat websites and YouTube videos. Your unlikely and complex hypothesis, is much more challenging to believe than simple physics. Your group can only call us tin hatters without proving what it is that you are saying is in fact, fact! The lie is so full of holes and the evidence all points to a sketchy story, where or not al qaeda, bin ladin, pnac, saudies, israel or any of the suspected groups. what we are told is not what happened. if you can't see that you are an idiot as far as I am concerned. Here is yet another well planned hypothesis making the official story hard to stomach! http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/1/NoCImpactPaper.pdf The official story tellers hold the evidence of the mystery aircraft at the pentagon, you know the camera shy one! the one that vaporised. These papers will continue to flood out and people will be studying, and basing thier thesis' on this for decades. You can only defend a lie for so long. You need to learn the difference between patriotic and paranoid, your tin hat comments just further cement your ignorant steriotype."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #87 January 28, 2010 Quoteyou are an idiot as far as I am concerned. Well, you're certainly the resident expert on idiocy - you advocate enough of their theories here.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #88 January 28, 2010 QuoteTry this: clicky Oh yeah you mates with "acess to thousands of photos", those guys, the more enlightened ones? How come joe public doesn't have access to those thousands of photos?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,595 #89 January 28, 2010 QuoteHere is yet another well planned hypothesis making the official story hard to stomach! http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/1/NoCImpactPaper.pdf The official story tellers hold the evidence of the mystery aircraft at the pentagon, you know the camera shy one! the one that vaporised. Where did it go, Rhys? Where did it go? If the plane was there, if it was flying towards the Pentagon, if it did not actually hit the Pentagon, where did it go? Who saw it fly away, Rhys? All this supposed research, all these supposed interviews, all these supposed eyewitnesses, where are the ones that saw it fly away? It's a big plane, Rhys. It's a loud plane, Rhys. It was flying low, Rhys. It wouldn't suddenly go unnoticed, Rhys. So where did it go?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #90 January 28, 2010 QuoteYour unlikely and complex hypothesis, is much more challenging to believe than simple physics I think you are confused. YOU don't believe the aircraft alone brought down the towers and I do. You still haven't explained the empty columns that were supposedly cut pre-collapse and how the debris off the top os the towers somehow fell faster than the main structure that was, according to you and the tinhats, falling at free fall speed.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #91 January 28, 2010 QuoteWhere did it go, Rhys? Where did it go? If the plane was there, if it was flying towards the Pentagon, if it did not actually hit the Pentagon, where did it go? Who saw it fly away, Rhys? All this supposed research, all these supposed interviews, all these supposed eyewitnesses, where are the ones that saw it fly away? It's a big plane, Rhys. It's a loud plane, Rhys. It was flying low, Rhys. It wouldn't suddenly go unnoticed, Rhys. So where did it go? Why, how and who is irrelevant if what is supposed to have happend is not possible, basing assertions on speculation will have an infinate amount of possible outcomes. There are far far too many questionable anomolies in the officilal 9/11 story it is difficult to not see the holes in it, it just depends whether you are prepared to allow yourself to or not! Look at what is happening in the world today ask yourself honestly, is this supposedly honest world I support actually as honest as it makes itself out to be?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #92 January 28, 2010 QuoteI think you are confused. YOU don't believe the aircraft alone brought down the towers and I do. No, that is where you are confused, it is much easier to determin that the building cannot fall at such acceleration from structural fire at the top of the building, than it is to suggest that it can, look at the legnth of the NIST reports and look at the papers debunking their theories. The NIST's data is incorrect and a very high percentage of the denier/debunkers use the same false stats that NIST supplied rather than taking thier own. Others claim higer enlightenment to access to evidence, where independnt investigators do not recieve the same privilidge, to say there is nothing fishy about the official story is being somewhat nieve. We all know the media manipulates the news..."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #93 January 28, 2010 . We all know the media manipulates the news... Well, for some topics they do. this is the very reason Obama got elected"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,595 #94 January 28, 2010 QuoteWhy, how and who is irrelevant if what is supposed to have happend is not possible, So let's talk about what's possible. If the aeroplane was there, if it flew low towards the Pentagon and if it did not actually hit the Pentagon (as your link claims) - is it then possible that not one single, solitary person in DC saw it fly off on the other side? Is that possible, Rhys? Your absolute intentional blindness to points like these is simply staggering. Is there anything, anything at all, that comes from the truther side that you will actually question?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #95 January 28, 2010 Can you not answer two very simple questions? After all, you seem very able to rewrite the laws of physics.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,116 #96 January 28, 2010 >>We all know the media manipulates the news... >Well, for some topics they do. this is the very reason Obama got elected How ironic, then, that you support giving them more political power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #97 January 28, 2010 Quote . We all know the media manipulates the news... Well, for some topics they do. this is the very reason Obama got elected Bwahahahaha - that just made my day dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #98 January 28, 2010 Quote Quote . We all know the media manipulates the news... Well, for some topics they do. this is the very reason Obama got elected Bwahahahaha - that just made my day I do need a tongue in cheek emoticon "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." 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kelpdiver 2 #83 December 23, 2009 Quote I actually watched fahrenheit 911 and loose change (the first edition and one of the more recent ones) and with everyone referencing everyone else, and everyone updating and changing their story every two years, I have no idea what is being argued anymore. I have no idea what the conspiracy theorists still believe the US government was trying to accomplish. I have no idea what all these individual arguments about phone calls are trying to lead up to. Internet debates have been compared to wrestling with a pig. In this case, it's wrestling a slaughterhouse full of greasy pigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #84 December 23, 2009 Quote Quote (doing searches on building demo just brings up a ton off 911 related misinformation) Try this: clicky I wonder how the tin haters will eplain away many of the points made in your link as well as what the monitors recorded? Oh, ya. They are in it too I guess"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #85 December 23, 2009 Why haven't you tried to explain why the column stubs are empty? As I said, they would be filled with debris if the Tin Hat theory of conrolled demolition is correct. We don't have to agree. We don't even have to agree to disagree. I have based my opinions on solid fact and scientific principles, you have based yours on Tin Hat websites and YouTube videos.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #86 January 28, 2010 QuoteWe don't have to agree. We don't even have to agree to disagree. I have based my opinions on solid fact and scientific principles, you have based yours on Tin Hat websites and YouTube videos. Your unlikely and complex hypothesis, is much more challenging to believe than simple physics. Your group can only call us tin hatters without proving what it is that you are saying is in fact, fact! The lie is so full of holes and the evidence all points to a sketchy story, where or not al qaeda, bin ladin, pnac, saudies, israel or any of the suspected groups. what we are told is not what happened. if you can't see that you are an idiot as far as I am concerned. Here is yet another well planned hypothesis making the official story hard to stomach! http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/1/NoCImpactPaper.pdf The official story tellers hold the evidence of the mystery aircraft at the pentagon, you know the camera shy one! the one that vaporised. These papers will continue to flood out and people will be studying, and basing thier thesis' on this for decades. You can only defend a lie for so long. You need to learn the difference between patriotic and paranoid, your tin hat comments just further cement your ignorant steriotype."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #87 January 28, 2010 Quoteyou are an idiot as far as I am concerned. Well, you're certainly the resident expert on idiocy - you advocate enough of their theories here.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #88 January 28, 2010 QuoteTry this: clicky Oh yeah you mates with "acess to thousands of photos", those guys, the more enlightened ones? How come joe public doesn't have access to those thousands of photos?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #89 January 28, 2010 QuoteHere is yet another well planned hypothesis making the official story hard to stomach! http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/1/NoCImpactPaper.pdf The official story tellers hold the evidence of the mystery aircraft at the pentagon, you know the camera shy one! the one that vaporised. Where did it go, Rhys? Where did it go? If the plane was there, if it was flying towards the Pentagon, if it did not actually hit the Pentagon, where did it go? Who saw it fly away, Rhys? All this supposed research, all these supposed interviews, all these supposed eyewitnesses, where are the ones that saw it fly away? It's a big plane, Rhys. It's a loud plane, Rhys. It was flying low, Rhys. It wouldn't suddenly go unnoticed, Rhys. So where did it go?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #90 January 28, 2010 QuoteYour unlikely and complex hypothesis, is much more challenging to believe than simple physics I think you are confused. YOU don't believe the aircraft alone brought down the towers and I do. You still haven't explained the empty columns that were supposedly cut pre-collapse and how the debris off the top os the towers somehow fell faster than the main structure that was, according to you and the tinhats, falling at free fall speed.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #91 January 28, 2010 QuoteWhere did it go, Rhys? Where did it go? If the plane was there, if it was flying towards the Pentagon, if it did not actually hit the Pentagon, where did it go? Who saw it fly away, Rhys? All this supposed research, all these supposed interviews, all these supposed eyewitnesses, where are the ones that saw it fly away? It's a big plane, Rhys. It's a loud plane, Rhys. It was flying low, Rhys. It wouldn't suddenly go unnoticed, Rhys. So where did it go? Why, how and who is irrelevant if what is supposed to have happend is not possible, basing assertions on speculation will have an infinate amount of possible outcomes. There are far far too many questionable anomolies in the officilal 9/11 story it is difficult to not see the holes in it, it just depends whether you are prepared to allow yourself to or not! Look at what is happening in the world today ask yourself honestly, is this supposedly honest world I support actually as honest as it makes itself out to be?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #92 January 28, 2010 QuoteI think you are confused. YOU don't believe the aircraft alone brought down the towers and I do. No, that is where you are confused, it is much easier to determin that the building cannot fall at such acceleration from structural fire at the top of the building, than it is to suggest that it can, look at the legnth of the NIST reports and look at the papers debunking their theories. The NIST's data is incorrect and a very high percentage of the denier/debunkers use the same false stats that NIST supplied rather than taking thier own. Others claim higer enlightenment to access to evidence, where independnt investigators do not recieve the same privilidge, to say there is nothing fishy about the official story is being somewhat nieve. We all know the media manipulates the news..."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #93 January 28, 2010 . We all know the media manipulates the news... Well, for some topics they do. this is the very reason Obama got elected"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #94 January 28, 2010 QuoteWhy, how and who is irrelevant if what is supposed to have happend is not possible, So let's talk about what's possible. If the aeroplane was there, if it flew low towards the Pentagon and if it did not actually hit the Pentagon (as your link claims) - is it then possible that not one single, solitary person in DC saw it fly off on the other side? Is that possible, Rhys? Your absolute intentional blindness to points like these is simply staggering. Is there anything, anything at all, that comes from the truther side that you will actually question?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #95 January 28, 2010 Can you not answer two very simple questions? After all, you seem very able to rewrite the laws of physics.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #96 January 28, 2010 >>We all know the media manipulates the news... >Well, for some topics they do. this is the very reason Obama got elected How ironic, then, that you support giving them more political power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #97 January 28, 2010 Quote . We all know the media manipulates the news... Well, for some topics they do. this is the very reason Obama got elected Bwahahahaha - that just made my day dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #98 January 28, 2010 Quote Quote . We all know the media manipulates the news... Well, for some topics they do. this is the very reason Obama got elected Bwahahahaha - that just made my day I do need a tongue in cheek emoticon "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
