Animal Cruelty

[futuredivot 0]

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I thought that Big Mac beef came from dairy cows that die of old age.

Where did you get the idea that Big Macs came from COWS?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[futuredivot 0]

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This is exactly the reason why I am a vegetarian, and will be for the rest of my life.

Cool-more meat for those of us at the top of the food chain.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[futuredivot 0]

OK kiddies-raise your hand if you've actually slaughtered an animal. Remain silent if you've had your information thrown at you from biased sources using the worst possible examples.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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The water is fowl, they have no green grass to eat and they spend thier entire lives walking in faeces, and breathing toxic and concentrated fumes from being so closely confined.

Describes a very large percentage of third world countries, doesn't it?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

A very, VERY, small number of animals are treated this way, Bill. I was raised on a fram, my friends all were farmers, and I still visit them. I know first hand how these cattle are treated. But don't take my word for it, go visit a dairy farm yourself.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Before believing propaganda posted by some vegan on a mission, make a visit to or talk to someone who works at a slaughterhouse. The reality is quite different from what PETA would have you believe.

Not propaganda, I don't need to talk to anyone, just look at the hidden camera shit on youtube.com and see for yourself.

[DanG 1]

You mention a good marketing program, but the ASPCA has the best marketing program ever. Unfortunately, their marketing program is dedicated towards getting people like you (and most other Americans) to think they are anything other than a local New York City animal shelter. That is what the ASPCA is, a local animal shelter. They just got ahold of the name many years ago and aren't letting it go. Feel free to give them money, but don't be deluded into thinking it will do anything outside the 5 buroughs.

As much as they are reviled, the only organization I know of that advocates for this issue with any effectiveness is PETA. Yes, some of what they do is way over the line, but they also do good work. You can go to their website and find out more. The videos are not all "from the old days." I stopped eating factory farmed mammals about a year ago because I just couldn't enjoy a burger thinking about the shitty life the animal likely had. The slaughter itself doesn't concern me nearly as much as the living conditions that most food animals have. Yes, there are some exceptions, and I've heard that true free grazing is starting to catch on in some parts of the states, but it is not the norm. Pigs, IMO, are way worse off than cows because of the cramped living conditions and the fact that they are highly intelligent. At least cows are really, really dumb. I'm still eating fowl and fish, but the chicken industry is pretty horrible. Someday I'll probably stop, I just haven't gotten there yet.

- Dan G

[riddler 0]

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just look at the hidden camera shit on youtube.com and see for yourself.

Here's an entire 95 minute movie about it, complete with a soundtrack by Moby and narration by Joaquin Phoenix.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[captain1976 0]

Not propaganda, I don't need to talk to anyone, just look at the hidden camera shit on youtube.com and see for yourself.

[ladyskydiver 0]

The original idea of PETA - the humane and ethical treatment of animals - is a good one. However, PETA doesn't always live by what they preach and do have blood on their hands.

http://consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/h/3859-peta-kills-animals-and-the-news-is-spreading-like-wildfire
http://consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/h/3856-peta-killed-a-record-number-of-pets-in-2008
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease_detail.cfm/r/148-peta-still-kills-animals
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm
http://www.newsweek.com/id/134549/
http://www.infowars.com/peta-kills-animals/
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/item_KFbqp3jfid9rxcEbXBxANN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals#Policy_on_euthanasia
http://www.webcommentary.com/php/ShowArticle.php?id=barrettt&date=070129

*sigh* I hate it when animals of any kind are abused by ANYONE. I hate it when humans are abused.

There is no 1 place or person that will "fix" everything. We must all do our part - daily - by our actions and words. When money is involved - people do like paychecks, eating, and being able to live - no one will ever be 100% happy with the situations and there will always be those examples out there that are inexcusable on both sides of the line. Unfortunately, until everyone treats every living being the way they wanted to be treated, there will always be blood on both sides.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Not propaganda, I don't need to talk to anyone, just look at the hidden camera shit on youtube.com and see for yourself.

I did. What they conveniently left out was that those cattle are ALREADY UNCONSCIOUS OR DEAD before their throat is cut. Ever hear of a captive bolt stun gun? It shoots a stainless steel rod several inches into the brain causing massive damage to brain tissue instantly.
But, like I told Bill, don't take my word for it. Go see for yourself.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I'm still eating fowl and fish, but the chicken industry is pretty horrible. Someday I'll probably stop, I just haven't gotten there yet.

Why not now? Seriously. One simply has to do it.

[JohnnyD 0]

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A very, VERY, small number of animals are treated this way, Bill. I was raised on a fram, my friends all were farmers, and I still visit them. I know first hand how these cattle are treated. But don't take my word for it, go visit a dairy farm yourself.

I bet you had 3 cows at the most and they all had names. Bill's description is accurate. Business is business.

[Amazon 7]

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I thought that Big Mac beef came from dairy cows that die of old age.

Where did you get the idea that Big Macs came from COWS?

Toi me kangaroo down sport, Toi me Kangaroos down

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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A very, VERY, small number of animals are treated this way, Bill. I was raised on a fram, my friends all were farmers, and I still visit them. I know first hand how these cattle are treated. But don't take my word for it, go visit a dairy farm yourself.

I bet you had 3 cows at the most and they all had names. Bill's description is accurate. Business is business.

That is a bet you would lose.
Our cattle, as well as those of nieghboring farms, were an investment. Good business dictates caring for your investments. That includes proper diet, living conditions, health care, etc. Those who do not follow humane and sanitary practices do not stay in business very long.
Poor care of farm animals does happen but it is the rare exception, not the rule as many would have you believe.
Like i've said, don't take my word for it. Go visit a few farms and see for yourself.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 3,119]

>A very, VERY, small number of animals are treated this way, Bill. I was raised
>on a fram, my friends all were farmers, and I still visit them. I know first hand
>how these cattle are treated. But don't take my word for it, go visit a dairy farm
>yourself.

I have; my parents worked on a farm in the summers when I was growing up. (They were both teachers and needed the extra money.) It resulted in an early end to my image of a farm as a place where Bessie roamed around with a bell around her neck, eating grass and mooing placidly.

But that was still a pretty small farm as farms go, and on the whole they treated their animals _relatively_ well. I've since been to commercial dairy farms and stockyards, and they're pretty grim places. You can smell the one near Yuma about five miles before you get to it. We stopped by that one once and you could see the carcasses of several animals, stamped almost flat into the manure by the other cattle walking over them.

Now, to be sure, there are some farmers out there who take good care of their animals, spend the extra money to make sure they have enough room, water, medical care, supervision, don't use massive antibiotic doses or rBST etc. There are several organizations out there who certify such farms, and I think it is worthwhile to support such farms. But these are _not_ the farms selling ground beef to McDonald's, or milk to Costco.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

I have been to a couple places that resemble the one at Yuma you mention. Fortunately they are the exception. The vast majority of farms, large and small, take good care of their stock. They risk too much money to do otherwise.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[TiaDanger 0]

[replyI did. What they conveniently left out was that those cattle are ALREADY UNCONSCIOUS OR DEAD before their throat is cut. Ever hear of a captive bolt stun gun? It shoots a stainless steel rod several inches into the brain causing massive damage to brain tissue instantly.
But, like I told Bill, don't take my word for it. Go see for yourself.

[TiaDanger 0]

I have been to a couple places that resemble the one at Yuma you mention. Fortunately they are the exception.

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You've already seen a couple? As in two? ten? twenty? Even a couple is too much, and that tells you that if a single person has seen more than one place like this, how many others are there, just like those, that are out there that you HAVEN'T seen? I would gather that they are more numerous than you think.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

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[Belgian_Draft 0]

I would assume they turned him down for the same reason Michael Moore is turned away from tours and interviews. Personally, I have never been turned away.

I have been to HUNDREDS of farms, stockyards, and slaughterhouses. I have seen only 2, maybe 3, that fit the description Bill gave.
Yes, that is still too many. But it is no better to judge the entire industry on the misdeeds of a few than it is any other portion of society.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Have you ever seen the interview of Jonathan Safran Foer, author of Eating Animals?

I recently stumbled upon that book in a bookstore - I'd not heard of it til then - started thumbing through it, wound up buying and reading it. An excellent read, and I highly recommend it. Sure, it has a bias; but all the reader needs do is engage the sensible filter in his/her brain, set aside the chaff and learn from the kernels.

By the way, the author discusses the captive bolt stun gun. Sometimes it works as intended, and sometimes it does not. When it does not, one would like to think that it's quickly re-applied to keep the process as humane as possible. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. He also discusses how the slaughter area of the plant is kept visually obscured from the work station of the USDA inspector whose task is to visually inspect the fresh carcasses for disease and contaminants. That's no accident, of course.

[ihazkittehz 0]

There are farms that treat their animals humanely. But you are worng to say that that is the norm. The vast majority of meat produced in the US comes from factory farms. These animals are not treated with compassion; they are 'products' and nothing more.

I've given up meat because of this. Others may find that too difficult, so I recommend finding local farms for buying meat and other animal products.

I'm glad that the farm you grew up on did things the right way. But I think you'd do better to encourage people to buy from you instead of supporting the majorly unethical factory farms...

[Belgian_Draft 0]

While keeping the slaughter area visually obscured from the inspector may be of benefit for reasons you assume, there are also reasons of practicality and law.
During the initial stages of slaughter there are many things present that can cause a carcass to fail inspection if present. Hair, feces, dirt, etc. The carcass is being coninually cleaned during processing and the last thing the operators want is to have anything from the outside of the animal to end up on the fresh meat and cause it to fail inspection. Hence, separation of areas. The USDA inspector has the freedom to inspect ALL areas of the plant. Refusal to allow this can lead to the plant being shutdown indefinitly.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Andy9o8 2]

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The USDA inspector has the freedom to inspect ALL areas of the plant. Refusal to allow this can lead to the plant being shutdown indefinitly.

True; but the practical reality is that visual inspection of the meat is priority #1, and they usually only assign a single inspector, and the inspector is under a lot of pressure to focus on meat quality and not take time away from that by checking out the slaughter area, since "humane-ness" is really outside the USDA's bailiwick compared to assuring the food is safe for consumption. This is discussed in the book, too.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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There are farms that treat their animals humanely. But you are worng to say that that is the norm. The vast majority of meat produced in the US comes from factory farms. These animals are not treated with compassion; they are 'products' and nothing more.

I've given up meat because of this. Others may find that too difficult, so I recommend finding local farms for buying meat and other animal products.

I'm glad that the farm you grew up on did things the right way. But I think you'd do better to encourage people to buy from you instead of supporting the majorly unethical factory farms...

Sorry, but you are wrong. I can understand why you would think that with all the propaganda thrown about. The vast majority of farms, including the mega-farms, treat their animals in a humane manner. It is good business sense to do so and these mega-farms are all about the dollar.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.