nerdgirl 0 #1 December 16, 2009 One of the security-based news compilers to which I’m subscribed, Security Info Watch, had a lead story today on the findings of an investigation of how effective (or not) some efforts with the intent of increasing security in schools have been, such as CCTVs and arresting kids for violations of school policy (rather than responding through school disciplinary actions). The short piece hits upon a number of re-occurring Speakers Corners themes: violence, behavior, deterrence, punishment, zero-tolerance policies, “common sense” versus data, ad hominems … and security theater (e.g., like the variety performed by TSA at airports). I’m also confident guns can be worked in here somehow. “The efforts of school districts across the country to ramp up security measures in an attempt to make schools safer learning environments could be an exercise in futility, according to a new book from Vanderbilt University Professor Torin Monahan. “In the book, Schools under Surveillance: Cultures of Control in Public Education, Monahan argues that security cameras, school resource officers and zero-tolerance policies for drugs and violence have little impact on deterring crime and may actually make students feel less safe. [I’m less concerned about how things “feel” than what the data shows; failing to recognize that perceptions – even wrong ones – do influence behavior and reality, however, would also be an error. – nerdgirl] “The book, which pulls together research from various authors [i.e., it’s an edited volume - nerdgirl], covers some of the biggest school districts in the country including New York, Chicago, New Orleans and Phoenix. Monahan said he got the idea for a book on school security while doing work for the unified school district in Los Angeles. “… when you look at the data of violence at schools that have CCTV cameras and resource officers, the fact is that those facilities are not safer than ones without, according to Monahan. ‘I thought it was particularly interesting that we are investing all of these resources under the assumption that they are going to have some demonstrable effect or benefit,’ he said. “Kenneth Trump, president of consulting firm National School Safety and Security Services and former member of the Division of Safety and Security for Cleveland Public Schools, refutes the professor’s argument. ‘Suggesting that reasonable, balanced security measures does not deter crime or contribute to safer environment may make good Ivory Tower academic theory, but it lacks common sense and any understanding of the safety challenges facing schools and other societal organizations today,” he said. “’Security measures are present throughout our society: In shopping centers, recreational facilities, entertainment complexes, grocery stories, corporate offices and many other places adults and kids visit on a daily basis. Persons responsible for safety in these venues must take reasonable risk reduction measures. Why should we hold our schools, which house our most valuable resources (our children), to a lower standard?’” Perhaps that’s part of the problem: (over)-securitization of our early 21st Century American society? I don’t think anyone is going to argue that public safety in schools and other public places is a bad thing. Perhaps someone would? Mr Trump’s criticisms seem to, imo, suggest that he does not even want the issue discussed. He’s about 3 degrees away, imo, from arguing against a strawman or “who will think of the children”-esque argument. And it’s not about burying one’s head in the sand or pretending that ‘bad’ people don’t exist, either. (That may be just as unhelpful strawman.) When is it more security theater than real or useful? Actual violent crime nation-wide has decreased, with a few exceptions such as murder in mid-sized cities (50-99k pop) and small cities (<10k pop). At the same time, the perception of violent crime is that it is increasing. So is “common sense” failing or winning here? At what point does risk perception trump reality such that it drives or becomes reality? Or are Monahan and co-authors just a ‘pointy-headed academic’ who doesn’t have anything meaningful to say about the real world? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #2 December 16, 2009 What? Noone wants to discuss the effectiveness of security measures in todays school systems? Personally I have no idea if they work or not. I can see why they wouldn't since teenage criminals don't really care about the consequences of their actions. Street cred becomes a priority and the enhanced security is likely seen as a challenge.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 December 16, 2009 That depends - is it raining? Warning: nerdgirl - please be advised that the above is HUMOR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #4 December 16, 2009 Quote “… when you look at the data of violence at schools that have CCTV cameras and resource officers, the fact is that those facilities are not safer than ones without, according to Monahan. ‘I thought it was particularly interesting that we are investing all of these resources under the assumption that they are going to have some demonstrable effect or benefit,’ he said. First though - I hope this is a controller comparison. These measures are taking in schools that has a history of trouble. They are, by and large, not taken in schools whose major problems are smoking and kids eating lunch at McDonald's. If the latter ones are part of the "no measures" sample, of course it won't appear that the measures have value. But even if that is the case - CCTVs are rarely effective because they're rarely used in an intelligent manner. The cameras are put up, no one watches the footage, no one maintains them. SF's MUNI buses are supposed to have scores of cameras, but when people get attacked with knives and nearly killed, there either is no footage or it's unusable. So you end up with cameras who have the same deterrent value as the machine gun toting soldiers at the airport. Looks good for the idiots, but everyone else knows it is window dressing. But skipping all that, your actual conclusion is correct: America is over securitized. Personally, I think it starts with the gun controller attitude that people should be unarmed and rely on the police. Since the police show up after the crime has happened, the next best thing is security guards, both armed and not. Since we're still helpless individuals, these fears of bad things becomes more potent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #5 December 16, 2009 Quote What? Noone wants to discuss the effectiveness of security measures in todays school systems? Personally I have no idea if they work or not. I can see why they wouldn't since teenage criminals don't really care about the consequences of their actions. Street cred becomes a priority and the enhanced security is likely seen as a challenge. You have a point, I think. My thought is that increased security at the schools as Our Lady of the Cray described *may* result in more safety as generally perceived, at least as is attributable to student/student interaction. Effectiveness given any sort of concerted attack would be much less, of course.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #6 December 16, 2009 I think that depends on how you define "Safety". Metal detectors, security guards, cameras and (my personal favorite) clear plastic backpacks can improve security inside the school. No, it isn't perfect. It's probably about as good as at the airport. Mostly it prevents all but the most determined individuals. But it does nothing about violence outside the school. This happened back in October. I think it could be defined as "school violence" even though it happened off school property."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #7 December 17, 2009 QuoteBut it does nothing about violence outside the school. This happened back in October. I think it could be defined as "school violence" even though it happened off school property. Concur w/r/t lack of addressing violence outside school. From the news piece you linked, although it was something that ocurred off-campus, it suggests a factor that I think needs more exploration, at least as I'm reading the piece. What percentage of school violence is gang-related? I don't know. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #8 December 17, 2009 This particular incident is part of an on-going problem that became a real issue when the Chicago School District merged 2 schools. The 2 schools each had a gang problem, but when the 2 gangs started going to the same school, it got really ugly. Chicago Trib I am aware of this primarily from listening to the radio news when going through Chicago."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites