Ketia0 0 #1 December 8, 2009 Im not a supporter of Homosexual marriage for my own personal beliefs.. But this is going waaaay over the line!! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091208/ap_on_re_af/af_uganda_gay_death_penalty_1 Death penalty for gays? Uganda debates proposal KAMPALA, Uganda – Proposed legislation would impose the death penalty for some gay Ugandans, and their family and friends could face up to seven years in jail if they fail to report them to authorities. Even landlords could be imprisoned for renting to homosexuals. Gay rights activists say the bill, which has prompted growing international opposition, promotes hatred and could set back efforts to combat HIV/AIDS. They believe the bill is part of a continentwide backlash because Africa's gay community is becoming more vocal. "It's a question of visibility," said David Cato, who became an activist after he was beaten up four times, arrested twice, fired from his teaching job and outed in the press because he is gay. "When we come out and ask for our rights, they pass laws against us." The legislation has drawn global attention from activists across the spectrum of views on gay issues. The measure was proposed in Uganda following a visit by leaders of U.S. conservative Christian ministries that promote therapy for gays to become heterosexual. However, at least one of those leaders has denounced the bill, as have some other conservative and liberal Christians in the United States. The Ugandan legislation in its current form would mandate a death sentence for active homosexuals living with HIV or in cases of same-sex rape. "Serial offenders" also could face capital punishment, but the legislation does not define the term. Anyone convicted of a homosexual act faces life imprisonment. Anyone who "aids, abets, counsels or procures another to engage of acts of homosexuality" faces seven years in prison if convicted. Landlords who rent rooms or homes to homosexuals also could get seven years and anyone with "religious, political, economic or social authority" who fails to report anyone violating the act faces three years. The bill is still being debated and could undergo changes before a vote, which hasn't yet been set. But gay-rights activists abroad are focusing on the legislation. A protest against the bill is planned for Thursday in London; protests were held last month in New York and Washington. David Bahati, the legislator sponsoring the bill, said he was encouraging "constructive criticism" to improve the law but insisted strict measures were necessary to stop homosexuals from "recruiting" schoolchildren. "The youths in secondary schools copy everything from the Western world and America," said high school teacher David Kisambira. "A good number of students have been converted into gays. We hear there are groups of people given money by some gay organizations in developed countries to recruit youth into gay activities." Uganda's ethics minister, James Nsaba Buturo, said the death sentence clause would probably be reviewed but maintained the law was necessary to counter foreign influence. He said homosexuality "is not natural in Uganda," a view echoed by some Ugandans. "I feel that the bill is good and necessary, but I don't think gays should be killed. They should be imprisoned for about a year and warned never to do it again. The family is in danger in Uganda because the rate at which vice is spreading is appalling," said shopkeeper John Muwanguzi. Uganda is not the only country considering anti-gay laws. Nigeria, where homosexuality is already punishable by imprisonment or death, is considering strengthening penalties for activities deemed to promote it. Burundi just banned same-sex relationships and Rwanda is considering it. Homophobia is rife even in more tolerant African countries. In Kenya, homosexuality is illegal but the government has acknowledged its existence by launching sexual orientation survey to improve health care. Nevertheless, the recent marriage of two Kenyan men in London caused outrage. The men's families in Kenya were harassed by reporters and villagers. In South Africa, the only African nation to recognize gay marriage, gangs carry out so-called "corrective" rapes on lesbians. A 19-year-old lesbian athlete was gang-raped, tortured and murdered in 2008. Debate over the Ugandan bill follows a conference in Kampala earlier this year attended by American activists who consider same-gender relationships sinful, and believe gays and lesbians can become heterosexual through prayer and counseling. Author Don Schmierer and "sexual reorientation coach" Caleb Lee Brundidge took part; they did not respond to interview requests. A third American who took part in the conference in Uganda, Scott Lively, said the bill has gone too far. "I agree with the general goal but this law is far too harsh," said Lively, a California-based preacher and author of "The Pink Swastika" and other books that advise parents how to "recruit-proof" their children from gays. "Society should actively discourage all sex outside of marriage and that includes homosexuality ... The family is under threat," he said. Gay people "should not be parading around the streets," he added. Frank Mugisha, a gay Ugandan human rights activist, said the bill was so poorly worded that someone could be imprisoned for giving a hug. "This bill is promoting hatred," he said. "We're turning Uganda into a police state. It will drive people to suicide." Buturo played down the influence of foreign evangelicals, saying the proposed legislation was an expression of popular outrage against "repugnant" practices. But activists like Cato argue anti-gay attitudes are a foreign import. "In the beginning, when the missionaries brought religion, they said they were bringing love," he said. "Instead they brought hate, through homophobia." Susan Timberlake, a senior adviser on human rights and law from UNAIDS, said such laws could hinder the fight against HIV/AIDS by driving people further underground. And activists also worry that the legislation could be used to blackmail or silence government critics. Cato said he thinks the Ugandan bill will pass, perhaps in an altered form. "It's such a setback. But I hope we can overcome it," he said. "I cannot believe this is happening in the 21st century.""In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #2 December 8, 2009 In '06 I spent 5 weeks in eastern Africa, including Uganda. Stayed for a couple days on this lake near the Rwandan/Congolese border- lake bunyonyi. We went on a little tour of the lake with a guide, he informed us (as we passed by) of this very tiny grass island in the middle with one or two trees on it. it was called something like "sinner's island" or "death island" in one of the local languages. any women caught having sex before marriage or stepping out on her husband would be dropped off (often by her father) and starve to death or drown trying to swim to shore, as no one knew how to swim. We asked our guide how long ago they stopped the practice, he said "oh a long time, almost 8 years..." Africa is a different place, still very tribal in many areas. Lots of tribal influence even in Kampala. Doesn't surprise me that this is their reaction to something the general population doesnt agree with. I was handed a pamphlet while hiking into Uganda from Rwanda telling women not to sleep with border patrol even though they look official and powerful, and that dousing my penis in gasoline will not protect me from HIV... among other important factoids. Not that it is right, but lot's of stuff looks crazy from the outside, for the most part people just don't know any better.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #3 December 8, 2009 I think your ignorance waaaay over the line also!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #4 December 8, 2009 Oh sorry, I mean your "personal belief" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #5 December 9, 2009 Quote I think your ignorance waaaay over the line also!!! ig·no·rance- The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. I am not ignorant. I know that thier are many homosexuals in the world. And if they want to be together, I am not going to force them apart. If they want to have a civial union by the statethen so be it. But marriage was made by God, for one man and one woman. End of story. "In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #6 December 9, 2009 If this passes any Kenyan who wants to stay in a western country will simply announce that they are gay and apply for asylum. Prepare for an influx of Kenyan refugees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #7 December 9, 2009 QuotePrepare for an influx of Kenyan refugees. 1. are there that many gay kenyans that it could be considered and influx? 2. can we put them on our olympic track team. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #8 December 9, 2009 QuoteQuotePrepare for an influx of Kenyan refugees. 1. are there that many gay kenyans that it could be considered and influx? ,..or "bi-sexual" ones who really want to live in America? ,...or "landlords" or persons of Quote "religious, political, economic or social authority" who fails to report anyone violating the act who want to live in America. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #9 December 14, 2009 Sorry for the bump- Went through some pics of about 3 years ago from my first trip through africa (inspired by the Kilimanjaro thread). I found a pic of the island I referred to in my first post here. Also to the OP, take a look at the second pic which is of the local market, note the main mode of transportation, the way of life, and living conditions. Step outside your reality and understand things are different in less developed countries... very different. Again, not to justify the law that is passed, but you may understand more fully why or how. these are from the southeastern corner of Uganda near Rwanda and D.R.C.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #10 December 14, 2009 Quote But marriage was made by God, for one man and one woman. End of story. A very difficult concept to grasp by the existential, pagan, hedonists in our community. The issue of sin is too fearful for the adolescent mind and, there is a strong collective adolescence in SC. The age of enlightenment for most folks seems to be in the 30 to 50 years of age range. So, for most of the posters here there is still hope.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #11 December 14, 2009 Quote Quote But marriage was made by God, for one man and one woman. End of story. A very difficult concept to grasp by the existential, pagan, hedonists in our community. The issue of sin is too fearful for the adolescent mind and, there is a strong collective adolescence in SC. The age of enlightenment for most folks seems to be in the 30 to 50 years of age range. So, for most of the posters here there is still hope. Still hope to give up on ethics and logical thinking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,230 #12 December 14, 2009 Quote But marriage was made by God, for one man and one woman. End of story. What balderdash. The historical record shows very clearly that marriage pre-dates Judeo-Christianity and exists in cultures that care nothing for your "God" myth.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
