Obese students forced to take fitness class

[ltdiver 3]

http://www.examiner.com/x-5445-Politics-in-Education-Examiner~y2009m11d24-Obese-students-forced-to-take-fitness-class-at-Pennsylvania-university

I have mixed feelings about this subject. I understand the University's thoughts on this epic problem plaguing not only our generation, but generations to come.

I was inspired to take health and fitness classes while at my own university, way back when. It was just a natural way to be healthy and enjoy learning how to stay that way.

However, is it fair to -force- obese students to take such a class, or not be allowed to graduate?

We all could learn how to become and stay healthy. A little knowledge goes a long way, and perhaps when these students become parents they can inspire their own children to direct their lives in a more active, healthy lifestyle.

IMO, all universities should offer such classes. However, should it be a requirement? And if so, shouldn't it be for ALL students, just not a select few?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[wmw999 2,589]

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IMO, all universities should offer such classes. However, should it be a requirement? And if so, shouldn't it be for ALL students, just not a select few?

In an ideal world, yes, yes, and yes.

Singling out folks, and more particularly requiring it for graduation is not good. I could see justification for their actively recruiting obese students and simply having it there for the others.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[quade 4]

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However, is it fair to -force- obese students to take such a class, or not be allowed to graduate?

Offer but not require.

As I'm sure you're aware, no matter how beneficial a change may be, it's impossible to change somebody if they really don't want to change.

Yeah, yeah . . . looking in a mirror.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ltdiver 3]

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As I'm sure you're aware, no matter how beneficial a change may be, it's impossible to change somebody if they really don't want to change.

Very true. Sometimes the pain has to be great enough to create the need to change.

What I would hope would be that a little seed would be planted and when the time would come the knowledge would grow.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[georgerussia 0]

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However, is it fair to -force- obese students to take such a class, or not be allowed to graduate?

This routinely happens in the Army.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Coreece 190]

I dunno....it doesn't seem so bad when I think of it as a BMI placement test...it seems just like any other placement test except one is for the body and the others are for the mind...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Andy9o8 2]

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However, is it fair to -force- obese students to take such a class, or not be allowed to graduate?

This routinely happens in the Army.

In the US military, I'd think severely obese people would be classified 4-F.

I'm basically in line with Wendy's opinion. If a college has a phys ed requirement (although I don't have a problem if it does not), it should be universally applied to all students. However, classes/activities should be specifically tailored so that an obese person is not unduly stressed (physically) or humiliated. I'd also think that, in the US, the ADA would require schools to provide an activity exemption for those with a written doctor's excuse. Even if the ADA did not exist in the US, it would not be proper to require a student to perform physical activity if his/her doctor indicated in writing that he/she should be excused for medical reasons.

[AggieDave 6]

According to my BMI I'm obese. Am I unhealthy? Should I be forced to attend those classes or not graduate (if I was at that school)? I work out 3-4 days a week, would I have to bump that to 7 days a week for this school? It seems like good intentions on the school's part has gone overboard and they're opening themselves up to some lawsuits.

I bet if that same school was to look at their cafeterias and alternate eating establishments on campus that take meal plans, they would find part of their self defined problem.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jimmytavino 16]

i was school kid ,,, back 45 years ago or more,,, when J F K started
"the Presidents Council on Physical Fitness"...

we did jumping jacks. til we were dizzy, and saw lots of Phys Ed programs started, which ( for me ) was a fun thing.... i always enjoyed "gym Class". and running around and excersizing always appealed to me...

What happened????
Now such classes are "scaled back" due to budget constraints, or plain old disinterest on the part of students AND school administrators...
Today Physical activity at school, seems limited to those who Join a sports team. others... are content with the "thumb-numbing" approach,, achieved by video games and P S 3....
done while snacking on junk, and slugging down, high sugar soft drinks ...
JFK would be quite disappointed...as am I...

With everything we now know, about obesity, heart disease, the negative impact of sugar, and more advanced medical intervention... THIS sort of issue, SHOULD be dealt with, in Grade school,, and certainly NOT College....

jmy

[ltdiver 3]

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i was school kid ,,, back 45 years ago or more,,, when J F K started
"the Presidents Council on Physical Fitness"...

I remember those, and found it stimulating to be outside and not in class for a better part of 2 days. :^) Even those who were not as fit seemed to enjoy it (even though it might have been about missing class work that day. ;^) )

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What happened????
Now such classes are "scaled back" due to budget constraints, or plain old disinterest on the part of students AND school administrators...

I went to private school, and P.E. is still part of the system today. I don't know about public schools, but I would be very disappointed if what you say is true. Don't they know that a kid's mind only has so much attention span and they -need- a break with physical activity to then be able to reengage the mind again?

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With everything we now know, about obesity, heart disease, the negative impact of sugar, and more advanced medical intervention... THIS sort of issue, SHOULD be dealt with, in Grade school,, and certainly NOT College....

jmy

Interesting that you should bring this up. Last night on the news they did a feature with just this intent. Rachel Ray has taken it upon herself to start a trend in New York, which I really hope catches on throughout the nation. (as an aside, it really -is- one of the answers to lowering our health care costs, teaching us how to eat healthy and stay that way.)

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline/rachael-ray-school-lunches-yum-upgrade/story?id=9163144

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Ron 10]

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However, is it fair to -force- obese students to take such a class, or not be allowed to graduate?

I think fair may not be the right word... We all know very few things in life are fair.

I am reminded of a situation years ago when I used to do martial arts. One of the red belts who was overweight had tested for his black belt. The chief instructor pulled him into his office and handed him a belt that was much too small for him to actually wear. The student informed the instructor and the instructor simply said, "When you can wear it, you may wear it."

Seemed really harsh to me at the time, but that guy went on a mission to lose weight. And he did finally manage to tie the belt and walk out onto the floor with it.

The thing is they guy *could* have gone on a weight loss program at any time in his life... But he never did. It took that one event to make him do it...And he is better for it.

So the question is do you think that a College is supposed to just crank out academics, or is it supposed to create a person who is well rounded? I remember having to take a human nutrition class in College even though it had nothing to do with my degree.

In the end, I don't really have a problem with a University having requirements... I think the BMI is a bit limiting since I also would fail a BMI test, but I don't think anyone that knows me would call me overweight.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnRich 4]

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Offer but not require.

I've attended five different colleges, and I think all of them required one or two phys-ed credits to graduate. It was up to the student to select which classes they took to satisfy that requirement. I got credit for previous military service, and took a scuba class. I have no problem with this state of affairs.

It's no different than a graduation requirement for a speech, literature, or biology class, and so on. There are certain basic subjects that are considered necessary for a well-rounded education. Physical-Education should be one of them.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Offer but not require.

I've attended five different colleges, and I think all of them required one or two phys-ed credits to graduate. It was up to the student to select which classes they took to satisfy that requirement. I got credit for previous military service, and took a scuba class. I have no problem with this state of affairs.

It's no different than a graduation requirement for a speech, literature, or biology class, and so on. There are certain basic subjects that are considered necessary for a well-rounded education. Physical-Education should be one of them.

Agreed. We called our science courses "breadth" requirements. Why shouldn't there be breadth requirements from the Phys-ed department.

[Darius11 12]

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However, is it fair to -force- obese students to take such a class, or not be allowed to graduate?

No, it would be fair if it was forced on all students. Any one who thinks just being in the obese section of the charts means your unhealthy or not being in it means you are healthy is oversimplifying things.


However I think it’s a great idea for all students. I loved it. I got credits for playing basketball, and having fun outside!!!! That’s awesome.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rhaig 0]

strict BMI exemption is BS.

make them pass a fitness test involving many different aspects of personal fitness. combined score must be at least this high.

otherwise you take the class. then you're done no matter what your score is at the end of the class.

--
Rob

[downwardspiral 0]

I don't have mixed feelings at all. The best idea these academic minds can come up with is discrimination? Also who wants to bet with me the obesity classes aren't free?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[headoverheels 334]

When I was an undergrad, freshman year had 3 physical education classes (quarter system) -- aerobics, gymnastics, and swimming. The quarterly grade for aerobics was based on how far you ran in 12 minutes, with 7 laps (1.75 miles) being an A, 6.5 for a B, etc. I'm not sure whether anyone that showed up every class got an F, but I'm sure that D's were handed out.

I expect that morbidly obese student got out of this, along with disabled students. Maybe they took "health" class as a substitute.

I don't have a problem with all student being required to take a year of either true physical education or "health" classes, but I find it odd to require obese students to take a class if other students don't have the requirement.

[billvon 3,120]

I have no problem with discrimination - provided it's based on quantifiable attributes that relate to performance as opposed to plain old weight, or race, or accent or whatever. A system that does not discriminate, and gives everyone a diploma no matter how they perform, is a poor system indeed.

The following are fine:

1) Phys ed classes for everyone
2) Phys ed classes for students who cannot pass a basic fitness test
3) Phys ed classes for students the school doctor determines are at risk due to their weight, fitness level or other risk factors

That being said, there should be criteria other than "they're fat."

[kallend 2,151]

I am not inclined to deny an excellent engineering student a degree in engineering on account of their BMI, or the length of their hair, choice of clothing, tattos, piercings, or any other attribute unconnected with their ability to perform as a professional engineer.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Yeah, its stories like this that make one wonder, "What were they thinking!?"

Seems they're setting themselves up for a lawsuit, but I'd suppose they could argue that since, "The mandate, which took effect for freshmen who entered in the fall of 2006, requires that students have their body mass index (BMI) measured.", that those who enrolled as freshman in 06 knew this (or should have known) up front and didn't have to enroll in that college. Although I'm not sure how much that would hold up in court... likely not at all once the lawyers start talking.

Having such a class offered, but not required seems more logical and likely to keep the college out of hot water, but, again, "what were they thinking!?" Simply requiring incoming students to take a BMI test seems likely to catch them some flak.



On the other hand, a college having a phys ed requirement on its students to graduate and then offering a wide range of different classes they can take to fulfill that requirement is perfectly reasonable in my opinion. Heck, colleges don't just let engineering students take engineering classes, they and others have to complete other basic requirements in classes outside of their major to graduate. That's part of going to college and should remain so. However singling out lard-asses to take a specific class in order to graduate, yeah, I'm sure the lawsuits are already underway.

[Amazon 7]

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I am not inclined to deny an excellent engineering student a degree in engineering on account of their BMI, or the length of their hair, choice of clothing, tattos, piercings, or any other attribute unconnected with their ability to perform as a professional engineer.

I don't have a problem at all with a requirement of some kind for physical Education or dance.. or some form of getting elevated heart rates as part of the curricula, but it needs to be for everyone not just the fat bodies.

Then again just think how cool it would be to require political science and civics courses for all of these fatheads who got their politics backgrounds at church

[ltdiver 3]

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I don't have a problem at all with a requirement of some kind for physical Education or dance.. or some form of getting elevated heart rates as part of the curricula, but it needs to be for everyone not just the fat bodies.

How about each and every P.E. class have a day or two of health education that would address healthy diet and lifestyle? That way everyone would be introduced to the subject and nobody would be singled out.

Then those who would like to further their education on the subject could take that extra class. BMI score not withstanding.

. I even cringe at it today. >

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Then again just think how cool it would be to require political science and civics courses for all of these fatheads who got their politics backgrounds at church

This might not work for college students like me, since I attended a University that was set-up by my church. Unless they brought in guest speakers . . .

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[kallend 2,151]

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Heck, colleges don't just let engineering students take engineering classes, they and others have to complete other basic requirements in classes outside of their major to graduate. That's part of going to college and should remain so.

The engineering profession (by way of its major professional societies) has defined the following as attributes required in a new engineering graduate. Note that many of these require knowledge or abilities developed outside of major courses.

(a) an ability to apply knowledge of mathematics, science, and engineering
(b) an ability to design and conduct experiments, as well as to analyze and interpret data
(c) an ability to design a system, component, or process to meet desired needs
(d) an ability to function on multi-disciplinary teams
(e) an ability to identify, formulate, and solve engineering problems
(f) an understanding of professional and ethical responsibility
(g) an ability to communicate effectively
(h) the broad education necessary to understand the impact of engineering solutions in a global and societal context
(i) a recognition of the need for, and an ability to engage in life-long learning
(j) a knowledge of contemporary issues
(k) an ability to use the techniques, skills, and modern engineering tools necessary for engineering practice.


However, none refer to the students' BMI, hair length, piercings, or other lifestyle matters.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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Heck, colleges don't just let engineering students take engineering classes, they and others have to complete other basic requirements in classes outside of their major to graduate. That's part of going to college and should remain so.

The engineering profession (by way of its major professional societies) has defined the following as attributes required in a new engineering graduate. Note that many of these require knowledge or abilities developed outside of major courses.

(a) an ability to apply knowledge of mathematics, science, and engineering
(b) an ability to design and conduct experiments, as well as to analyze and interpret data
(c) an ability to design a system, component, or process to meet desired needs
(d) an ability to function on multi-disciplinary teams
(e) an ability to identify, formulate, and solve engineering problems
(f) an understanding of professional and ethical responsibility
(g) an ability to communicate effectively
(h) the broad education necessary to understand the impact of engineering solutions in a global and societal context
(i) a recognition of the need for, and an ability to engage in life-long learning
(j) a knowledge of contemporary issues
(k) an ability to use the techniques, skills, and modern engineering tools necessary for engineering practice.


However, none refer to the students' BMI, hair length, piercings, or other lifestyle matters.

I wonder if Liberty University or Regent University have any liberal arts curricula??

[kallend 2,151]

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I wonder if Liberty University or Regent University have any liberal arts curricula??

Physics and Chemistry from a Christian perspective.

I do know that their engineering programs are not currently accredited.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.