virgin-burner 1 #226 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteI realise it is on a local scale but does that make our (UK) planning laws "restrictive" on muslims. Surely you would agree that having a "dominant" structure built in a cotswold village full of listed buildings would be detrimental to the value of the houses? Sure. And I have absolutely no problem with the Swiss or anyone else refusing planning permission for minarets at the local level if they're going to be detrimental to the look of a town or village. It's important to keep that picture postcard look in many of those places. But this isn't about that, this is putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. QuoteIf the Swiss are proud of their architecture and would like to keep to a certain look and feel they are entitled to it. It's not about that. It's about putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. wow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country, do you want to have my passport, you surely seem to know more than me! look at the online-questionaires they put up online in many european newspaper-thingies, most PEOPLE would vote that way; you're making yourself look really ridicilous here..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #227 December 2, 2009 stuff like this has a lot to do with the outcome of said vote.. jakee, i bet you didnt knew about that, nor do you care! gawd, you know jack-shit, yet you're the expert; get over yourself!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #228 December 2, 2009 Quote Quote Quote This thread is about Switzerland putting a freeze on building any new buildings, NOT RELIGION!!!! The whole Muslim shit just coincidental!!!!! No, it's not. It's the entire reason for the initiative. again, you seem to have deep and fundamental understandings of what switzerland moves!? how come? i know for sure ncjumpjunkie has been here like five or six times this year already; how many times have you been here in that time!? Twice, for a total of about a month. I'll be back in about 3 weeks. But that's irrelevant. What is relevant is the news stories that quote members of the SVP saying that the reason they wanted to ban minarets was because they were a symbol of muslim religious expansion and the rule of Islamic law. Can you demonstrate to me that this was not the reason they launched the initiative?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #229 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteI realise it is on a local scale but does that make our (UK) planning laws "restrictive" on muslims. Surely you would agree that having a "dominant" structure built in a cotswold village full of listed buildings would be detrimental to the value of the houses? Sure. And I have absolutely no problem with the Swiss or anyone else refusing planning permission for minarets at the local level if they're going to be detrimental to the look of a town or village. It's important to keep that picture postcard look in many of those places. But this isn't about that, this is putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. QuoteIf the Swiss are proud of their architecture and would like to keep to a certain look and feel they are entitled to it. It's not about that. It's about putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. wow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country, do you want to have my passport, you surely seem to know more than me! look at the online-questionaires they put up online in many european newspaper-thingies, most PEOPLE would vote that way; you're making yourself look really ridicilous here.. What do you mean? Most people would vote what way?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #230 December 2, 2009 Quote stuff like this has a lot to do with the outcome of said vote.. Broken link.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #231 December 2, 2009 QuoteThat’s why in the US we guarantee rights to all our citizens and believe the rights are god given. how many minarets in the USA ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #232 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuote stuff like this has a lot to do with the outcome of said vote.. Broken link. http://www.swisster.ch/libyan-%E2%80%98hostages%E2%80%99-returned-swiss-embassy.html“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #233 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI realise it is on a local scale but does that make our (UK) planning laws "restrictive" on muslims. Surely you would agree that having a "dominant" structure built in a cotswold village full of listed buildings would be detrimental to the value of the houses? Sure. And I have absolutely no problem with the Swiss or anyone else refusing planning permission for minarets at the local level if they're going to be detrimental to the look of a town or village. It's important to keep that picture postcard look in many of those places. But this isn't about that, this is putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. QuoteIf the Swiss are proud of their architecture and would like to keep to a certain look and feel they are entitled to it. It's not about that. It's about putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. wow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country, do you want to have my passport, you surely seem to know more than me! look at the online-questionaires they put up online in many european newspaper-thingies, most PEOPLE would vote that way; you're making yourself look really ridicilous here.. What do you mean? Most people would vote what way? the way the swiss people voted“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #234 December 2, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote This thread is about Switzerland putting a freeze on building any new buildings, NOT RELIGION!!!! The whole Muslim shit just coincidental!!!!! No, it's not. It's the entire reason for the initiative. again, you seem to have deep and fundamental understandings of what switzerland moves!? how come? i know for sure ncjumpjunkie has been here like five or six times this year already; how many times have you been here in that time!? Twice, for a total of about a month. I'll be back in about 3 weeks. But that's irrelevant. What is relevant is the news stories that quote members of the SVP saying that the reason they wanted to ban minarets was because they were a symbol of muslim religious expansion and the rule of Islamic law. Can you demonstrate to me that this was not the reason they launched the initiative? and what was the purpose of those travels? junkie has a GF here, i'm pretty sure they talk about stuff like that; and they both are out and about quite some, i dont think he is completely blind to the issues here..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #235 December 2, 2009 QuoteSure. And I have absolutely no problem with the Swiss or anyone else refusing planning permission for minarets at the local level if they're going to be detrimental to the look of a town or village. It's important to keep that picture postcard look in many of those places. So you're OK with a ban so long as its dealt with at a local level? Just so I know where you are going with this. In the UK we have conservation areas where you have to comply with certain building requirements so as not to dramatically change the character of an area. Are these OK? How big an area can they cover before it is not OK? Should religious groups get a free pass? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncjumpjunkie 0 #236 December 2, 2009 I'll try to explain this thing this way..... In the USA, if you live in the county, not in the "City Limits" You are allowed to have cows and barn yard animals. OKAY? Now say that a Hindu worshiper lived in the house. OKAY? Then the "City" voted to "RE ZONE" the area. Then all the cows would have to go because now it's the "City Limits".... Would the Hindu Worshiper's Civil Rights be violated because of this, the cows are "Religious Simbols????? This is why people exercise their right to live where they choose..... If they don't like the rules where they live they always can exercise their right to move to an area that fits them best, instead of trying to change the area to fit them. SAME THING HERE IN SWITZERLAND,,,, They didn't ban or forbid Muslims from worship or demand that the "OTHER MINARETS" be torn down. They just "REZONED" and denied any further expansion.SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3 SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #237 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote stuff like this has a lot to do with the outcome of said vote.. Broken link. http://www.swisster.ch/libyan-%E2%80%98hostages%E2%80%99-returned-swiss-embassy.html Ok, so you're saying that the ban is about minarets being a symbol of Islam, which is what I said, to which you replied that I didn't know what I was talking about? Sound about right?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #238 December 2, 2009 different nations online-polls on the subject: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2009/11/29/2009-11-29_poll_swiss_voters_approve_ban_of_mosque_minarets.html http://www.bild.de/BILD/politik/2009/12/01/7-wahrheiten-ueber-den-islam/nach-minarett-verbot-in-der-schweiz.html http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article5374452/Minarett-Verbot-loest-Diskussion-in-Deutschland-aus.html that's just three papers, the polls show that mostly over 80% are in favor of a ban, or/and, are afraid of islamisation.. if you dont speak german, it's probably not your business to participate in the discussion anyway (or french, italian and rumantsch; that's how multiculti we are), as you appear to be a possible immigrant that wants their rights served on a silver plate and doesnt give a shit to actually INTEGRATE..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #239 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI realise it is on a local scale but does that make our (UK) planning laws "restrictive" on muslims. Surely you would agree that having a "dominant" structure built in a cotswold village full of listed buildings would be detrimental to the value of the houses? Sure. And I have absolutely no problem with the Swiss or anyone else refusing planning permission for minarets at the local level if they're going to be detrimental to the look of a town or village. It's important to keep that picture postcard look in many of those places. But this isn't about that, this is putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. QuoteIf the Swiss are proud of their architecture and would like to keep to a certain look and feel they are entitled to it. It's not about that. It's about putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. wow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country, do you want to have my passport, you surely seem to know more than me! look at the online-questionaires they put up online in many european newspaper-thingies, most PEOPLE would vote that way; you're making yourself look really ridicilous here.. What do you mean? Most people would vote what way? the way the swiss people voted But that has got absolutely nothing to do with what I said in the post you replied to.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #240 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote stuff like this has a lot to do with the outcome of said vote.. Broken link. http://www.swisster.ch/libyan-%E2%80%98hostages%E2%80%99-returned-swiss-embassy.html Ok, so you're saying that the ban is about minarets being a symbol of Islam, which is what I said, to which you replied that I didn't know what I was talking about? Sound about right? no; i said there are many more issues than minarets (as symbols of islam as you like to turn the words in my mouth) that came with the outcome of this poll; but in good old SC-manner you just read/comprehend what you want..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #241 December 2, 2009 So you're OK with a ban so long as its dealt with at a local level? I'm ok with evaluating, on a case by case basis, whether the construction of any building will be too detrimental to the character of a certain area. In the UK we have conservation areas where you have to comply with certain building requirements so as not to dramatically change the character of an area. Are these OK? Yeah, sure. How big an area can they cover before it is not OK? I don't know. Should religious groups get a free pass? No.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrDree 0 #242 December 2, 2009 Quotewow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country Now you know how a lot of muslims who are Swiss citizen (some of them are even of Swiss descent) feel. They are told to adapt to swiss rules or go back home. But they are home, it's their country too!"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching." Dudeist Skydiver #101 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #243 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI realise it is on a local scale but does that make our (UK) planning laws "restrictive" on muslims. Surely you would agree that having a "dominant" structure built in a cotswold village full of listed buildings would be detrimental to the value of the houses? Sure. And I have absolutely no problem with the Swiss or anyone else refusing planning permission for minarets at the local level if they're going to be detrimental to the look of a town or village. It's important to keep that picture postcard look in many of those places. But this isn't about that, this is putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. QuoteIf the Swiss are proud of their architecture and would like to keep to a certain look and feel they are entitled to it. It's not about that. It's about putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim. wow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country, do you want to have my passport, you surely seem to know more than me! look at the online-questionaires they put up online in many european newspaper-thingies, most PEOPLE would vote that way; you're making yourself look really ridicilous here.. What do you mean? Most people would vote what way? the way the swiss people voted But that has got absolutely nothing to do with what I said in the post you replied to. you can keep on playing three monkeys as you want; it doesnt change the fact that somewhere between 57-82% in europe feel that this is western culture with a rich christian background, and while muslims are free to pray to turds in a bathtub if they wish, but it doesnt necessarily mean they're free to demand of our society that we keep on bearing their stuff. look up how many churches there are on arabian soil; there might be a couple you find, yet, no church steeples! islam oppresses people of other faiths, the rights of woman, it might be not too long ago we did that here too, but that's no reason to get back to the stone-age because of some immigrants!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #244 December 2, 2009 Quotethat's just three papers, the polls show that mostly over 80% are in favor of a ban, or/and, are afraid of islamisation.. What are you arguing against here? Who said otherwise? Quoteif you dont speak german, it's probably not your business to participate in the discussion anyway Ok. Just to be absolutely clear - you started this thread and you specifically asked for a bunch of english speaking people to participate in the discussion. Quoteas you appear to be a possible immigrant that wants their rights served on a silver plate and doesnt give a shit to actually INTEGRATE.. Actually it's Italy that I've got my eye on, and I'll make sure that I learn the language before I try and move there, and I promise I won't build any religious monuments there. Now if you could actually talk about the issue for a second instead of talking about me there could be a quite interesting discussion to be had.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #245 December 2, 2009 QuoteSo you're OK with a ban so long as its dealt with at a local level? I'm ok with evaluating, on a case by case basis, whether the construction of any building will be too detrimental to the character of a certain area. In the UK we have conservation areas where you have to comply with certain building requirements so as not to dramatically change the character of an area. Are these OK? Yeah, sure. How big an area can they cover before it is not OK? I don't know. Should religious groups get a free pass? No. So you're OK with defining a conservation area of some yet-to-be determined size and that religions don't get a free pass. So you entire argument is one of size. A street is OK, but a country isn't. Is that it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #246 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuotewow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country Now you know how a lot of muslims who are Swiss citizen (some of them are even of Swiss descent) feel. They are told to adapt to swiss rules or go back home. But they are home, it's their country too! that quote was answering jakees post that clearly showed he has more intimidate knowledge of the underlying issues here.. ouchie, they got their feelings hurt!? mhm, tell that to the woman that wanted to divorce her pakistani husband couple weeks back, oh, sorry, you cant, the poor woman got shot in the face, perfectly righteous under the sharia, the outcome of this vote should actually make the muslims think twice what their religion stands for; and again, no-one is denied their religion, or the building of mosques.. they should be happy to live here where they can exercise those rights, it would be different if they were christians in say saudi arabia; possession of a bible, converting to christianity is pretty much a death sentence. if islam (what's got a minaret to do with religion anyway) is so important to them, well, i dont know why they choose switzerland to live; and why they choose not to adapt to our culture!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #247 December 2, 2009 Quoteyou can keep on playing three monkeys as you want; it doesnt change the fact that somewhere between 57-82% in europe feel that this is western culture with a rich christian background, and while muslims are free to pray to turds in a bathtub if they wish, but it doesnt necessarily mean they're free to demand of our society that we keep on bearing their stuff. That's still got nothing to do with what I said. I said that the initiative was about banning the minarets because they're a symbol of Islam. You replied and said that comment made me look ridiculous and ignorant of the facts because a majority of the population supported the intiative. Can't you see that those two things are not connected? You have dodged the point. You are playing the games. Quotelook up how many churches there are on arabian soil; there might be a couple you find, yet, no church steeples! So what? I wouldn't give up any part of my free society to copy a bunch of fundamentalist arab nutcases. Why would you? It makes no sense. Quote islam oppresses people of other faiths, the rights of woman, it might be not too long ago we did that here too, but that's no reason to get back to the stone-age because of some immigrants! No-one here has said that you should. Who are you arguing against?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncjumpjunkie 0 #248 December 2, 2009 Read the first Paragraph of this link!!!! http://www.orexca.com/uzbekistan_minarets.shtmlSONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3 SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncjumpjunkie 0 #249 December 2, 2009 QuoteQuotewow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country Now you know how a lot of muslims who are Swiss citizen (some of them are even of Swiss descent) feel. They are told to adapt to swiss rules or go back home. But they are home, it's their country too! Well what about the "Swiss Citizens" that are told that they have to take all those Minarets???? How do you think they feel. And I don't recall anybody telling any Muslims to "GO Home" as you say.SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3 SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #250 December 2, 2009 excellent study but since you're swisser than i am, i'm sure you'll have no problems making sense out of it..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
