normiss 871 #76 November 23, 2009 we used to make money there, then someone ripped us off for an ass load of cash... as an FYI, we're not employees, we're contractors. not speaking for TK by any means, but do you really, honestly think if ANY dz did not make a profit they would remain in business? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,559 #77 November 23, 2009 I'm not sure that one side's recollection of a heated telephone conversation is the best possible place to get information about that conversation. That said, profits are not bad. However, the pursuit of maximum profit at the expense of everything else is not always good. Because it can mean stretching the law and morality until it's tissue thin, and it can mean making short-term profitable moves that have a bad long-term effect on the business. Not that we've seen any examples of either of those lately Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #78 November 23, 2009 Quoteas an FYI, we're not employees, we're contractors. So, you are claiming that the office staff are all contractors? Quotenot speaking for TK by any means, but do you really, honestly think if ANY dz did not make a profit they would remain in business? And I would think that a guy that thinks everyone should have HC would provide it to his employees.... So, I think the question to TK is valid."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 871 #79 November 23, 2009 Disagree. Given the current laws and costs, health care for employees can put you out of business also. It should not be anyone else's responsibility to take care of my health. Thanks for thinking of us lowly employees though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #80 November 23, 2009 QuoteGiven the current laws and costs, health care for employees can put you out of business also. The DZ didn't notice $138,697 stolen from it.... I bet $138,697 would pay for HC for the staff. So who do you think should pay for it? I mean if it costs so much, who should pay for it? And you don't think a guy that claims everyone should have HC provided NOT providing HC to the people he COULD provide it to is a little hypocritical? And you STILL didn't answer if the office staff are Contract, or actual employees. QuoteIt should not be anyone else's responsibility to take care of my health. So do you support public single payer HC? QuoteThanks for thinking of us lowly employees though. Don't know where you got that attitude. I think TK SHOULD provide HC to his employees.... After all he says it should be a right, and he is in a position to offer it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #81 November 23, 2009 Quote Disagree. Given the current laws and costs, health care for employees can put you out of business also. It should not be anyone else's responsibility to take care of my health. You may think that but TK is on record with a converse opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #82 November 23, 2009 Quote Quote Disagree. Given the current laws and costs, health care for employees can put you out of business also. It should not be anyone else's responsibility to take care of my health. You may think that but TK is on record with a converse opinion. Yep. His opinion might change when gov't starts forcing insurance coverage down the throat of his business. And I'm certain they'd be real interested in whether his independent contractors are actually employees.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #83 November 23, 2009 QuoteI noticed in your response that you didn't deny Paraclete's comment that you stated that profits are a bad thing. wow, guilty for NOT saying something - you really should try harder. I did not say that, What Tim says is the best way to help the country is to lower corporate taxes, deregulate, and cut the corporations and business loose, therefore making more profits, therefore creating more jobs. (the past 30 years is SUCH a great example of that.....) I say that lowering corporate taxes will indeed make more corporate profits, but that it does not necessarily create ANY more jobs, just more corporate profits. Dell closed down their plant and moved overseas despite promises of jobs and work, prosperity for everyone. Pfizer promised a huge research facility, even got the town to pay for a bunch of it, evicted people from their homes (eminent domain) and then shut down their research facility. Both companies are actually enjoying fairly healthy profits, yes, down from previous years, but still quite profitable. Job creation has little to do with corporate profits in these cases and in hundreds more cases just like it. So yes, I am correct in saying that corporations making more money 'is bad' when put into the perspective of creating more jobs for the average American. After all the corporation's job is to make money, right? Even if that means moving jobs and manufacturing to other countries, dismantling health care and any pension or benefit structures, driving legislation to curb workers rights, as well as legislation to lower their taxes, while they cut deals with municipalities and governments to build facilities with tax credits, tax breaks and outright taxpayer money, with the illusion of creating jobs just so they can close them down a couple years later. And you wonder why they then need bailouts? Well so do I....... sometimes you get what you pay for. I pay my employees FAR MORE than $8/hour,(I would love to know where you heard that - or was it 12 years ago?) and it is not my place to post wages here. We offer subsidized health care, but even with their decent wages, no one could POSSIBLY afford any reasonable health insurance here in Florida, even with our subsidy, and they choose not to. I do not even get my health insurance through Skydive City because you know what? I cannot afford it either. The best plan I got offered covered "nothing to do with my spine, flying or skydiving". So much for shopping around. You guys are fucking blind if you think that health insurance is available for everyone in this country. It simply is not. You are also blind that if we deregulate all businesses, that the country will be better off. The country's CORPORATIONS will certainly be better off, but not the people. And yes we make a profit at Skydive City. NOYFB. I also strive to take care of my hard working employees and instructional staff. Ask any of them if we are 'fucking them over'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #84 November 23, 2009 Read my lips - I am not for Health INSURANCE for everyone. I am for HEALTH CARE for everyone. The current bill is fucked, so me and the conservatives actually agree. Single payer health care (i.e. Medicare) FOR ALL AMERICANS paid for through the tax system, both corporate and private. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #85 November 23, 2009 actually we did notice the stolen money - that is how we found it was being stolen. If we did not notice it, then it would still be getting stolen I expect. And for you to have any opinion on it, given the amount of information that you could possibly know about it, I find to be amazing...... I've been in the courtroom and been in the Asst State Atty's office a bunch of times, but I do not ever remember you being there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #86 November 23, 2009 WRONG!! You did not come into this world paying for your own healthcare and delivery. How about childcare wellness? Care to amend your statement? Quote It should not be anyone else's responsibility to take care of my health. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #87 November 24, 2009 Quoteactually we did notice the stolen money I bet $138,697 would pay for HC for the entire staff. Quote I've been in the courtroom and been in the Asst State Atty's office a bunch of times, but I do not ever remember you being there. I don't need to be in the office... It was in the papers. I have been at the bar when people talk about it. I have heard YOU talk about it. The sister of the accused was at my wedding. QuoteWe offer subsidized health care, but even with their decent wages, no one could POSSIBLY afford any reasonable health insurance here in Florida, even with our subsidy, and they choose not to. It is a case of you choosing profits over providing HC..... That is a something you and your company's owners have the right to make. That in no way leads me to think you are "screwing" your staff, BTW. Heck, I like you even if I don't agree with your politics. I do find it interesting that you don't provide HC, yet pretty much demand the Govt to do it. And as an aside, my Wife used to sell HC plans... Her plan when she was unemployed and competing her Masters was about 100/mth. And when she was selling plans, she found many skydivers great rates."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #88 November 24, 2009 QuoteI bet $138,697 would pay for HC for the entire staff. Moot point - it would pay for a lot of things -but it is gone. And it is likely that we will never see it again. FYI - at least TWO of the major shareholders of Skydive City are strong advocates of single payer health care, and are willing to step up insofar as taxes go to pay for it. Skydive City (by itself) would pay a far higher price for health care for all it's employees if doing it alone, than would cost a system that covers everyone in the country paid for through a tax system. No different than if Skydive City had to provide its own 'military protection' (which would cost far more for just us if paid for by only us) than it would to pay for 'military protection' paid for through the tax system for EVERYONE (our current system of military protection). I get a kick out of the rhetoric. I am not advocating health care for all paid for by employers, I am advocating health care for all paid for by the people AND the employers. FYI - I am not the 'corporation of Skydive City'. I am TK Hayes, a small part of the 'corporation of Skydive City'. my avatar does not reflect Skydive City, it is actually 'tkhayes', and again, I do not demand that the government pays for health care. I demand that the government TAX the people and the corporations so that health care can be provided for all. I am glad your wife can get health insurance for so cheap - I hear that fucking argument all the time - it is not the reality for many, perhaps most of us...... don't ask me to shop around - I already have. Don't' ask me to move to another country (Tim's suggestion), I have every right to be here, just as you do....I fucking EARNED IT...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #89 November 24, 2009 Just the same as you have "EARNED" gov provided HC I suppose..... "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funfall 0 #90 November 24, 2009 Quote***Her plan when she was unemployed and competing her Masters was about 100/mth. Wow! The good old days! And being young & healthy didn't hurt, I'll bet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 871 #91 November 24, 2009 wrong my ass...why the hell would YOUR health ever be MY responsibility? MY PARENTS PAID FOR ME COMING INTO THIS WORLD, NOT YOU! Much like I cared for my kids. Including childcare wellness thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 871 #92 November 24, 2009 I also love the ones that brag about how cheap their insurance is....until they use it. 40% coverage for this, 80% for that, maximum out of pockets, deductibles, not covered items, pre-existing conditions, blah dee fucking blah. I just hope we don't "fix" this issue by simply forcing everyone to buy an insurance plan they can't afford now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 871 #93 November 24, 2009 Whatever the dz as a business wants to spend $138k on is neither your business nor mine. It's THEIR business. It's also none of your business who has what position. Privately owned businesses are weird like that. HC is a human right in my mind, but I still don't connect the dots to where my job should be the point of that responsibility. I've done a decent job of providing for myself and my children for a long time, it's getting prohibitively expensive for us all AS A SOCIETY though. Maybe as a SOCIETY we should fix that. Without forcing more of us into financial ruin. If we require the employer to provide it, we'll simply have les employers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #94 November 24, 2009 QuoteFYI - at least TWO of the major shareholders of Skydive City are strong advocates of single payer health care, and are willing to step up insofar as taxes go to pay for it. But seem to be unwilling to pay PROFITS to do the same thing. QuoteNo different than if Skydive City had to provide its own 'military protection' And you have complained about the cost and use of that military. And I can tell you first hand that the military, while it does a good job... Is NOT efficient and costs MUCH more than it should for what it does.... Is that your idea of a good model to follow? QuoteFYI - I am not the 'corporation of Skydive City'. I am TK Hayes, a small part of the 'corporation of Skydive City'. And as the manager of the 'corporation of skydive city' you have the ability to provide for your employees. QuoteI am glad your wife can get health insurance for so cheap - I hear that fucking argument all the time - it is not the reality for many, perhaps most of us...... She just ran the numbers and three different company's gave rates of less than 200/mth. 1,500 deductible, no co-insurance and 15 RX, and 20 buck co pay. Admittedly it was for 32yo non-smoker. QuoteI have every right to be here, just as you do....I fucking EARNED IT...... Never said you didn't.... But I also EARNED the right to be here and don't think the Govt should run something they have been shown NOT to be able to run already. I'd really like to hear how your opinion on France's program running a deficit for the past 20 years."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #95 November 24, 2009 Quote Wow! The good old days! And being young & healthy didn't hurt, I'll bet. Pre-existing condition.... So no."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #96 November 24, 2009 Quote Whatever the dz as a business wants to spend $138k on is neither your business nor mine. It's THEIR business. And you trying to get me to pay taxes to pay for YOU is MY business. Quote HC is a human right in my mind And you are entitled to your opinion, but NOT entitled to shove your opinion on me. Quote Maybe as a SOCIETY we should fix that. Without forcing more of us into financial ruin. And maybe we should fix it in a way that does not bankrupt the COUNTRY.... You do know that France's HC program has been running a DEFICIT for over 20 years right? So you think the best fix is to follow down a path that has been proven NOT TO WORK? Quote If we require the employer to provide it, we'll simply have les employers. And you think that concept does not apply to TAXES? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funfall 0 #97 November 24, 2009 A decent poilcy with that sort of premium, and covering a significant pre-existing condition, sounds like something from the past. If recent, I'd guess that it's subsidized by her school, employer, or the government. And if it were available to most people, why would anyone be asking for help getting insurance? Please share with us where such a policy is available. Health insurance is the major expense for my business, so I've shopped. Just keeps getting worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #98 November 24, 2009 Quote Ask any of them if we are 'fucking them over'. I wonder what Cathy Kloess, aka Packin' Cathy, would say in response.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #99 November 24, 2009 QuoteA decent poilcy [SIC] with that sort of premium, and covering a significant pre-existing condition, sounds like something from the past. If recent, I'd guess that it's subsidized by her school, employer, or the government. Wrong and wrong. Pulled up last night and no subsidy from anyone. QuoteAnd if it were available to most people, why would anyone be asking for help getting insurance? Because most people are unwilling to pay the 200/mth and would rather make 200 dollars worth of skydives than pay for medical care... Or drive a 200/mth nicer car, or live in a 200/mth nicer place.... Or drink 200/mth in beer... Or a combination of all of the above."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #100 November 24, 2009 QuoteQuote Ask any of them if we are 'fucking them over'. I wonder what Cathy Kloess, aka Packin' Cathy, would say in response. Ron, I've seen people use a particular inquiry to such a statement on DZ.com: "If you have an accusation to make, either be specific and back it up, or STFU." I see no reason why that standard should not be applied here, too. I'm also detecting a pattern in this thread of "rebutting" a person;s message by attacking the person himself. As you well know, I happen to think that's a low-ball tactic. Again, you (and others) seem to be playing the player, and not the ball. This thread is about Tim as a candidate for United States Congress, not whether we can vilify TK (and slander his business) for his having the temerity to speak out about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
