Gun safe question

[kelpdiver 2]

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Again, this is what I have decided is right for me. Others may decide differently.

Sorry this is Speaker's Corner and that is not an option. You either agree with Ron, or you are against guns. Those are the only two options available.

Yes, this is SC, which means people insist on trying to stir up shit on a focus topic into the never ending topics of guns, health care, and [insert your favorite].

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Safeties? Only 2 of the 6 handguns I have include safeties., but in the 10 years I've had them, I only once thought things were interesting enough to load one (extended power outage).

The P7M8 would the be one I'd use, and that has the grip 'safety' that requires a bit of intent to pull back the pin.

[mnealtx 0]

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The P7M8 would the be one I'd use, and that has the grip 'safety' that requires a bit of intent to pull back the pin.

That's a squeeze cocker, is it not? I can see how it could be considered a safety in a sense, since (if I recall correctly) it decocks when released.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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The P7M8 would the be one I'd use, and that has the grip 'safety' that requires a bit of intent to pull back the pin.

That's a squeeze cocker, is it not? I can see how it could be considered a safety in a sense, since (if I recall correctly) it decocks when released.

Indeed, though at that point, a DA trigger becomes a 'safety' too.

[JohnRich 4]

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On your revolver:
1) Do you have the hammer cocked over a live round?
2) Hammer down on a live round?
3) Or hammer down on on an empty cylinder?

It's a hammerless S&W airweight 5 shot .38 w'crimson grip. So the hammer inside is down over a live round.

For those here who seem to think that a live round in the chamber of a semi-auto is "unsafe", do you also think that a revolver with the hammer over a live round is also "unsafe"?

In other words, do you think revolver owners should keep the hammer over an empty cylinder, in the name of safety, but thereby giving them only have five rounds to shoot, instead of six?

[billvon 3,114]

>do you think revolver owners should keep the hammer over an empty
>cylinder, in the name of safety, but thereby giving them only have five
>rounds to shoot, instead of six?

They should do whatever they like. Whether or not they want to take the (small) additional risk is up to them.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I'm replying to a bunch of different posts here, specifically to JohnRich, carrying a revolver with a full cylinder (live round under the lowered hammer) is no different than Condition2 (correct condition2, I was mistaking 2 for 3 in earlier posts, sorry 'bout that) - hammer down on loaded chamber. It isn't inherently unsafe in a modern weapon designed to be carried that way. The hammer block in a revolver is the functional equivalent of the firing pin safety in an auto. Don't forget that many autos are designed to be carried that way, some are even "decock only" with no real safety. Others (like the Beretta 92) drop the hammer down when you put the safety on.

Personally I carry condition1 (cocked and locked). I have a Kimber 45, and the 1911 (and all it's copies) are designed to be carried that way. Without a firing pin safety, C2 is (as Ron mentioned) more dangerous than C1. If I carry a revolver, it has the cylinder full, hammer down on loaded chamber
Others I know prefer C3 (empty chamber). As Belgian Draft mentioned, the extra time to work the slide is minimal, and if practiced properly won't make any real difference.

BUT there is a big difference between carry protocol and nightstand protocol. A weapon on my belt or in my hand is under my direct control. Short of having it taken from me (grabbed out of my hand or snatched out of the holser) I don't have to worry about it ending up in the wrong hands.

The pistol on my nightstand is a different situation. With it that far out of my control, I don't like having it loaded at all. As I said earlier, I have an empty auto with the loaded magazine in a seperate location, both easily accesible.
No, it won't stop a burgular (or kid) from finding both and thus having a loaded weapon, but it will slow them down a bit (And they are put away when I'm not home).

It also means I have to be coherent enough to a)find the gun, b)find the magazine, c)load the mag and chamber a round before I can shoot.

For Me, in my overall situation, that extra effort and the level of safety it ensures is worth the extra time it takes and the additional risk in a "high-speed malfunction" scenario.
I also have a "Plan B" in case the intruder gets hold of the empty weapon and keeps it from me.

Thanks for all the discussion. It's been a while since I've had to define and defend my personal protocols. It isn't changing anything, but it's nice to revisit them and make sure my reasoning is still valid (at least for my situations)

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Ron 10]

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Sorry this is Speaker's Corner and that is not an option. You either agree with Ron, or you are against guns. Those are the only two options available

Oh look...Just like normal, you can't have a rational adult discussion about the topic, so you start the childish BS!

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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you can't have a rational adult discussion about the topic

Problem is I need another rational adult to have one of those....

[Rstanley0312 1]

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I'm replying to a bunch of different posts here, specifically to JohnRich, carrying a revolver with a full cylinder (live round under the lowered hammer) is no different than Condition2 (correct condition2, I was mistaking 2 for 3 in earlier posts, sorry 'bout that) - hammer down on loaded chamber. It isn't inherently unsafe in a modern weapon designed to be carried that way. The hammer block in a revolver is the functional equivalent of the firing pin safety in an auto. Don't forget that many autos are designed to be carried that way, some are even "decock only" with no real safety. Others (like the Beretta 92) drop the hammer down when you put the safety on.

Personally I carry condition1 (cocked and locked). I have a Kimber 45, and the 1911 (and all it's copies) are designed to be carried that way. Without a firing pin safety, C2 is (as Ron mentioned) more dangerous than C1. If I carry a revolver, it has the cylinder full, hammer down on loaded chamber
Others I know prefer C3 (empty chamber). As Belgian Draft mentioned, the extra time to work the slide is minimal, and if practiced properly won't make any real difference.

BUT there is a big difference between carry protocol and nightstand protocol. A weapon on my belt or in my hand is under my direct control. Short of having it taken from me (grabbed out of my hand or snatched out of the holser) I don't have to worry about it ending up in the wrong hands.

The pistol on my nightstand is a different situation. With it that far out of my control, I don't like having it loaded at all. As I said earlier, I have an empty auto with the loaded magazine in a seperate location, both easily accesible.
No, it won't stop a burgular (or kid) from finding both and thus having a loaded weapon, but it will slow them down a bit (And they are put away when I'm not home).

It also means I have to be coherent enough to a)find the gun, b)find the magazine, c)load the mag and chamber a round before I can shoot.

For Me, in my overall situation, that extra effort and the level of safety it ensures is worth the extra time it takes and the additional risk in a "high-speed malfunction" scenario.
I also have a "Plan B" in case the intruder gets hold of the empty weapon and keeps it from me.

Thanks for all the discussion. It's been a while since I've had to define and defend my personal protocols. It isn't changing anything, but it's nice to revisit them and make sure my reasoning is still valid (at least for my situations)

EP's can vary but the important thing is you are always practicing them and you do what you have trained to do.
So this thread went a bit off topic bubt I went and checked out a fingerprint safe last night. NOT a biometric but the finger tap safe that was mentioned. It opens pretty quick and consistently but I did wonder what the real difference was if I have a number combination safe with buttons. In theory it is supposed to be faster but if my code are numbers that are closer such as using only the 1,2, and 3 but with a 6 number combo this not only seems more secure but also just as fast. So to refocus the discussion..... those are just some observations from checking them out. There are the same sized "safes" available with a number key pad. This discussion also got me thinking.... I have an alarm and a bulldog to warn me of someone coming in so is the 1/2 second longer really that big of a deal to me when I feel a number safe could be safer from the little guy longer? This is a new home for me so I think I need to really consider if what I have done so long in a small place by myslef with only one entry point is the same thing I should be doing in my new house. There have been a lot of good things said.... thanks everyone.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 1]

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you can't have a rational adult discussion about the topic

Problem is I need another rational adult to have one of those....

Dekker.... I'm just confused as to why you even made that statement. Ron didn't say anything out of line nor did he say anything close to what you made his statements out to be? Obviously you guys disagree a lot but why bring that in to a post that you have no input on at all? You just wanted to attack him?

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Andy0689 0]

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I would not trust one.

I'd just get a combination safe and not tell the kid the code.

I don't like key safes since you have to put the key somewhere... I have a buddy that lost one of his keys and has a safe he has yet to get into. AND unless you carry it with you at all times, the key will be accessible to the kid.

Combination's will stay in your head.

I have a cheap-o Sentry gun safe with a key lock. I drilled 3 holes in the door and mounted a key safe on the outside. Quick access to the key by combination and key never gets lost.

I don't know much about the biometric safes but personally think a combination safe is sufficient.

Andy
I'll believe it when I see it on YouTube!

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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you can't have a rational adult discussion about the topic

Problem is I need another rational adult to have one of those....

Dekker.... I'm just confused as to why you even made that statement. Ron didn't say anything out of line nor did he say anything close to what you made his statements out to be? Obviously you guys disagree a lot but why bring that in to a post that you have no input on at all? You just wanted to attack him?

Standard SC behavior (how many otherwise rational adults turn into PeeWee Herman in here?)
I'm a little surprised that none of the antis have come in here screaming and yelling how dangerous guns are.

You said in the other post that you are in a new place (with new people right?).

Have you done a "security check"?
Entry points/paths for the intruders, a safe room and escape routes for you and yours, ambush/last stand points, good/bad corners, peek holes/strategic reflector placement. All that stuff.

Play hide and seek with the kid. Or better yet cowboys and indians/cops and robbers/terrorist and Delta Force. Seriously.
Use it to identify good hiding places for you and places to aviod when checking out the "noise in the middle of the night". Use it to learn how easy it is to get surprised coming around a corner.

My ex absolutely hated the stainless steel round lamp I insisted on leaving in the front hall. But she let it stay when I pointed out how useful it was for checking out the front door from the bedroom doorway. With the bedroom dark, She could easily see into the living room and check to see if the front door was open, while still being totally invisible.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[4000m 0]

Hi,
sorry I don't have the time to read the whole thread at the moment, but if your concern is to keep your finaces son away from the safe, maybe you should rely on something different that a fingerprint reader. Fingerprints are easily cloned.
All you need is a printer, wood glue, a digital camera and some superglue.

Here is a video about how its done. Its in German, but should give you a brief explantion of how it works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPtzRQNHzl0

Edit: Clicky

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/4000meter
Youtube Favorites: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjnVsp4Epra-PRDETgrF3M04B3X86X1eh

[Rstanley0312 1]

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you can't have a rational adult discussion about the topic

Problem is I need another rational adult to have one of those....

Dekker.... I'm just confused as to why you even made that statement. Ron didn't say anything out of line nor did he say anything close to what you made his statements out to be? Obviously you guys disagree a lot but why bring that in to a post that you have no input on at all? You just wanted to attack him?

Standard SC behavior (how many otherwise rational adults turn into PeeWee Herman in here?)
I'm a little surprised that none of the antis have come in here screaming and yelling how dangerous guns are.

You said in the other post that you are in a new place (with new people right?).

Have you done a "security check"?
Entry points/paths for the intruders, a safe room and escape routes for you and yours, ambush/last stand points, good/bad corners, peek holes/strategic reflector placement. All that stuff.

Play hide and seek with the kid. Or better yet cowboys and indians/cops and robbers/terrorist and Delta Force. Seriously.
Use it to identify good hiding places for you and places to aviod when checking out the "noise in the middle of the night". Use it to learn how easy it is to get surprised coming around a corner.

My ex absolutely hated the stainless steel round lamp I insisted on leaving in the front hall. But she let it stay when I pointed out how useful it was for checking out the front door from the bedroom doorway. With the bedroom dark, She could easily see into the living room and check to see if the front door was open, while still being totally invisible.

I just moved in on Sat. and I am looking forward to figuring out that out. Great suggestions!

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[billvon 3,114]

>Problem is I need another rational adult to have one of those....

Enough. Cut it out.

[Ron 10]

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I have a cheap-o Sentry gun safe with a key lock. I drilled 3 holes in the door and mounted a key safe on the outside. Quick access to the key by combination and key never gets lost.

While I think that is a very neat way to handle this situation.... Can you explain why you think it is a better method than just having a combination lock on the safe?

Or did you just adapt what you had?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnRich 4]

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I went and checked out a fingerprint safe last night. NOT a biometric but the finger tap safe that was mentioned. It opens pretty quick and consistently but I did wonder what the real difference was if I have a number combination safe with buttons. In theory it is supposed to be faster but if my code are numbers that are closer such as using only the 1,2, and 3 but with a 6 number combo this not only seems more secure but also just as fast.

Just make sure that you can operate the numbers in the dark, by feel alone. That's the problem that the handprint-type safes solve. If you need to turn on a light to operate the lock, then you've given up you're elements of stealth and surprise.

[Rstanley0312 1]

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I went and checked out a fingerprint safe last night. NOT a biometric but the finger tap safe that was mentioned. It opens pretty quick and consistently but I did wonder what the real difference was if I have a number combination safe with buttons. In theory it is supposed to be faster but if my code are numbers that are closer such as using only the 1,2, and 3 but with a 6 number combo this not only seems more secure but also just as fast.

Just make sure that you can operate the numbers in the dark, by feel alone. That's the problem that the handprint-type safes solve. If you need to turn on a light to operate the lock, then you've given up you're elements of stealth and surprise.

Again, good point. See everyone.... SC can teach us something and give us new perspective

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com