Gun safe question

[Rstanley0312 1]

Anyone using a biometric gun safe? My fiancee has a son and I want to keep a few guns around the house with a round chambered. I have already started the education but he is not there yet. So.... I am looking in to the biometric safes. They seem to be pretty easy access but are they good? Am I going to lay my fingers on it 3-4 times before it opens? Any experiences would be much appreciated.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[thedude325 0]

+1 I've been curious about these for a while. Let us know.

[georgerussia 0]

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So.... I am looking in to the biometric safes. They seem to be pretty easy access but are they good? Am I going to lay my fingers on it 3-4 times before it opens? Any experiences would be much appreciated.

Is it based on fingerprints? Several years ago we've tested a few fingerprint readers (laptops, locks and two access control devices I can't disclosure). Our findings were that basic fingerprint readers were just a joke in terms of security, and crappy in terms of detection. They have either a higher rate of false negatives or false positives, and each one of them could be hacked by providing a photocopied fingerprint on paper, latex or special materials. One model also shut down and unlocked by static electricity from a regular lighter!

So unless the technology really improved (which I doubt), if the safe you're looking for costs less than $500, it will likely have one of those.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Belgian_Draft 0]

My last laptop had a fingerprint ID device. Most of the time it took several tries to get a good "read". I would never trust one to open if my life depended on it, not at this time. Maybe someday an affordable one will be trustworthy enough.
I have used the keypad type nightstand safe for several years with no complaints.
Question is, why keep a round chambered?? If you don't have time to cycle the action( 1-2 seconds) then you sure don't have time to open any kind of safe. Don't feel obligated to answer, just provoking some thought in case you haven't considered that yet.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[JohnRich 4]

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Anyone using a biometric gun safe?

Don't confuse the ones that have a recessed handprint on top as necessarily being "biometric". Most of those actually have little touch pads under the fingertips, and the combination is set with a sequence of finger pushes. The handprint is just to help position your hand over the buttons in the dark. They're quick, and all you have to do is memorize some sequence of finger movements. No fumbling with keys or combination locks.

[kelpdiver 2]

also the question of power - presumably battery power - what happens when it is out?

I'm not convinced that biometrics, esp on the cheap, offer any advantage over a simple combination or key lock.

[AggieDave 6]

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I'm not convinced that biometrics, esp on the cheap, offer any advantage over a simple combination or key lock.

Safes and security really come down to one question: "who are you trying to keep out?"

If burglars are you concern, then a small, light safe will simply be carried off and opened later by drill and hammer.

If your concern are children in your family, then age is of a concern. If the child is old enough to find a key or play with a combination to try to open the safe, then they should have been taught firearm safety by then. The wonderment of a firearm would have been removed by training, practice and safety.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wmw999 2,587]

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If the child is old enough to find a key or play with a combination to try to open the safe, then they should have been taught firearm safety by then. The wonderment of a firearm would have been removed by training, practice and safety.

And even then, some kids need additional safeguards.

My son was not a problem with anything like that, but even as a toddler he wasn't in the cabinets much, either. Other kids are different.

Never trust education alone with a child who's too young to understand the consequences. Education with enough experience with that child can do it (we trusted that), but you never know when kids will decide to try something new.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Krip 2]

Do a search on U tube for Gun safes, breaking in to gun safe etc. Very interesting.

If kids are smart enough to check out U tube than they probably already know how to break into most mid range gunsafes.

The little box with the slot for the fingersI think that's the one where the guy taped the corner of the box and the top popped open or wher the guy removed the nameplate and shorted out the electrical locking system.

One Jump Wonder

[LongWayToFall 0]

If anyone is looking at buying a regular safe, I saw some at sports authority on sale. Only the most expensive was even worth it because the rest didn't weight anything, but the big one was heavy, fireproof, and looked nice. It was less than 600 bucks, and a deal compared to everything else I have seen.

[Ron 10]

I would not trust one.

I'd just get a combination safe and not tell the kid the code.

I don't like key safes since you have to put the key somewhere... I have a buddy that lost one of his keys and has a safe he has yet to get into. AND unless you carry it with you at all times, the key will be accessible to the kid.

Combination's will stay in your head.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Question is, why keep a round chambered??

1. Adds an extra bullet to the capacity.

2. Any modern weapon poses no risk to having a round chambered provided you don't pull the trigger. Older weapons did pose a danger, but today's firearms don't fire unless you pull the trigger.

3. Adding a step in an emergency situation is normally a bad move. It would be like locking down the cutaway handle with a snap that you had to take off when you needed to cutaway.

So, it adds capacity, poses no extra danger, and simplifies the process.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Rstanley0312 1]

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My last laptop had a fingerprint ID device. Most of the time it took several tries to get a good "read". I would never trust one to open if my life depended on it, not at this time. Maybe someday an affordable one will be trustworthy enough.
I have used the keypad type nightstand safe for several years with no complaints.
Question is, why keep a round chambered?? If you don't have time to cycle the action( 1-2 seconds) then you sure don't have time to open any kind of safe. Don't feel obligated to answer, just provoking some thought in case you haven't considered that yet.

That is a good thought actually. I always keep a round chambered in my two semi auto .45's and can just keep those up high for the time being but what I keep by my bed is a revolver so that is always ready to go.

That was a good question though and why I want to know about the biometric safes. If I can throw my hand on it and it opens in 1-2 seconds consistently than I think a round chambered is a good idea because if it takes 1-2 sec. to open the safe and another 1-2 sec. to rack it then that's just more time. That all being said I see your point.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 1]

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I'm not convinced that biometrics, esp on the cheap, offer any advantage over a simple combination or key lock.

Safes and security really come down to one question: "who are you trying to keep out?"

If burglars are you concern, then a small, light safe will simply be carried off and opened later by drill and hammer.

If your concern are children in your family, then age is of a concern. If the child is old enough to find a key or play with a combination to try to open the safe, then they should have been taught firearm safety by then. The wonderment of a firearm would have been removed by training, practice and safety.

Agreed! He is not my biological son though and I am just now gettig him at age six. Apparently his dad introduced him to firearms the other day with his brother. No eye protection or ear protection and I guarantee there was beer involved Anyway I am working on the education part but for now i'm trying to just keep the guns away from him but still accessible to me and fast.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Question is, why keep a round chambered??

1. Adds an extra bullet to the capacity.

2. Any modern weapon poses no risk to having a round chambered provided you don't pull the trigger. Older weapons did pose a danger, but today's firearms don't fire unless you pull the trigger.

3. Adding a step in an emergency situation is normally a bad move. It would be like locking down the cutaway handle with a snap that you had to take off when you needed to cutaway.

So, it adds capacity, poses no extra danger, and simplifies the process.

Disagree. It adds to the danger because the weapon can go off with the simple release of the safety rather than the deliberate act of working the slide.

A safety is a mechanical device and is subject to failure. (yes, there are usually multiple levels of safety).

More importantly, you want to know what you are doing and who you are dealing with before pulling that trigger.
If you wake up from a sound sleep, you will be disoriented. I prefer to be alert enough to rack the slide, rather than just drop the safety. I've worked with my pistols enough that dropping the safety has reached "muscle memory" levels - I don't conciously think about it, it happens as the gun comes up.

There's also the tactical advantage in case the bad guy gets the gun before you wake up. He may not know the chamber is empty, giving you an extra second to do whatever you can. I keep my nightstand gun empty for this reason. There is a loaded mag nearby, and I can get to both, load and chamber in about 5 seconds.

If you are at the point where one or two seconds are going to be that critical you've already lost the advantage anyway. It's likely going to turn into a shootout, and that's one that often nobody wins.

Being alerted to the threat with enought time to put your defense plan into action is the most improtant thing. Alarms, dogs, or a big noisy mess right by the front door (my ex never understood why I insisted on leaving my workboots right in front of the door) will give you that time, if they don't scare off the bad guy altogether.

IMO the biometric (fingerprint id) safes aren't where they need to be yet.
The fingertip-pushbutton-combination ones are pretty good, but the limited number of combinations make them less than ideal. One way around this is to lock the gun and it's small safe in a larger vault during the day. That way the kid can't get to the safe to experiment with the combination.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Ron 10]

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Disagree. It adds to the danger because the weapon can go off with the simple release of the safety rather than the deliberate act of working the slide.

Guns don't just "go off". And that is the point. A slide is also simple to operate and disengaging a safety should be a deliberate act.

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A safety is a mechanical device and is subject to failure. (yes, there are usually multiple levels of safety).

Fine, show me a list of MODERN firearms that are known to" just fire" without the trigger being pulled. Yes, a 1886 colt without the hammer bar could fire if on a live round, but a Glock or 1911 is not just going to discharge.

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More importantly, you want to know what you are doing and who you are dealing with before pulling that trigger. If you wake up from a sound sleep, you will be disoriented. I prefer to be alert enough to rack the slide, rather than just drop the safety. I've worked with my pistols enough that dropping the safety has reached "muscle memory" levels - I don't conciously [SIC] think about it, it happens as the gun comes up.

So when you are disoriented it is JUST as likely that you will forget to rack the slide and now are effectively unarmed. And you should know who you are dealing with BEFORE you point a loaded gun at them.

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There's also the tactical advantage in case the bad guy gets the gun before you wake up. He may not know the chamber is empty, giving you an extra second to do whatever you can. I keep my nightstand gun empty for this reason. There is a loaded mag nearby, and I can get to both, load and chamber in about 5 seconds.

And it puts you at the tactical DISADVANTAGE if he breaks in before you are awake and you cannot perform those functions.... So again, you are disarmed.

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If you are at the point where one or two seconds are going to be that critical you've already lost the advantage anyway. It's likely going to turn into a shootout, and that's one that often nobody wins.

You have a MUCH greater chance of surviving if you don't start 5-10 seconds after the other guy.

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Being alerted to the threat with enought [SIC] time to put your defense plan into action is the most improtant [SIC] thing. Alarms, dogs, or a big noisy mess right by the front door (my ex never understood why I insisted on leaving my workboots right in front of the door) will give you that time, if they don't scare off the bad guy altogether.

IMO the biometric (fingerprint id) safes aren't where they need to be yet.
The fingertip-pushbutton-combination ones are pretty good, but the limited number of combinations make them less than ideal. One way around this is to lock the gun and it's small safe in a larger vault during the day. That way the kid can't get to the safe to experiment with the combination.

This I agree with.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Krip 2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2EyFNCAX3s

Video: How To break into safe in 1min 15 sec's

See related video's in u tube for other methods of entering someone else's gun safe.

One Jump Wonder

[billvon 3,111]

>So, it adds capacity, poses no extra danger, and simplifies the process.

Agreed on most, but it does slightly increase risk of unintended discharge, since you have removed one step in the process required to discharge it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I'm not going to requote the whole thing, and we may have to agree to disagree. That's what makes these discussions interesting.

Very few (if any) modern guns are unsafe to have condition one. But condition two is safer, as Billvon said.

My point is that disengaging the safety is a very simple flick of the thumb.
Working the slide requires a much higher amount of effort.
If I am half asleep and disoriented, I don't want a gun that is able to be fired that easily.

Yes, it puts me at a tactical disadvantage.
Yes, that 5 seconds may mean the difference between life and death.

But it greatly lessens the chance that I will have an accidental discharge, which I consider to be a more likely situation and more of a threat to me or my loved ones.

Again, this is what I have decided is right for me. Others may decide differently.

And what's right for them is cool by me.
I just like to put other options and the thought processes behind them out for discussion.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Again, this is what I have decided is right for me. Others may decide differently.

Sorry this is Speaker's Corner and that is not an option. You either agree with Ron, or you are against guns. Those are the only two options available.

[Rstanley0312 1]

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I'm not going to requote the whole thing, and we may have to agree to disagree. That's what makes these discussions interesting.

Very few (if any) modern guns are unsafe to have condition one. But condition two is safer, as Billvon said.

My point is that disengaging the safety is a very simple flick of the thumb.
Working the slide requires a much higher amount of effort.
If I am half asleep and disoriented, I don't want a gun that is able to be fired that easily.

Yes, it puts me at a tactical disadvantage.
Yes, that 5 seconds may mean the difference between life and death.

But it greatly lessens the chance that I will have an accidental discharge, which I consider to be a more likely situation and more of a threat to me or my loved ones.

Again, this is what I have decided is right for me. Others may decide differently.

And what's right for them is cool by me.
I just like to put other options and the thought processes behind them out for discussion.

I do understand that thought process and I don't really agree or disagree. By my bed is a revolver so all of these points are good but for my situation moot. The other handgun in the house I do keep in condition one though. So.... if it is somewhere else and you are not dealing with waking up still half asleep would you keep a semi auto in condition one?

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I'm not going to requote the whole thing, and we may have to agree to disagree. That's what makes these discussions interesting.

Very few (if any) modern guns are unsafe to have condition one. But condition two is safer, as Billvon said.

My point is that disengaging the safety is a very simple flick of the thumb.
Working the slide requires a much higher amount of effort.
If I am half asleep and disoriented, I don't want a gun that is able to be fired that easily.

Yes, it puts me at a tactical disadvantage.
Yes, that 5 seconds may mean the difference between life and death.

But it greatly lessens the chance that I will have an accidental discharge, which I consider to be a more likely situation and more of a threat to me or my loved ones.

Again, this is what I have decided is right for me. Others may decide differently.

And what's right for them is cool by me.
I just like to put other options and the thought processes behind them out for discussion.

I would agree with everything you said. When I carry it is a 1911 .45 cal. When not with me it is at home in a keypad nightstand safe. The only time...ONLY time...there is a round in the chamber is when discharge is imminent. Chamber is empty even when I am carrying. Yes, it is a tactical disadvantage under certain circumstances. And, being a .45 that i handle easily, I feel no need for more than 7 rounds. After all, the chances of being attacked at night by 6 Ninjas and needing 3 rounds to drop each is pretty remote. But I have weighed the risks and, for me, the added risk of a chambered round (esp. when handled by a half-asleep person) is not worth the one or two second added time to reay the weapon or the need to use both hands to rack a slide (though i can do it with one hand and a hip almost as quickly but not as safely).
As you said, to each his own.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Ron 10]

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I'm not going to requote the whole thing, and we may have to agree to disagree. That's what makes these discussions interesting.

Yes.

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Very few (if any) modern guns are unsafe to have condition one. But condition two is safer, as Billvon said.

If you are talking about the standard conditions of carry, condition 2 (locked, loaded, hammer on a live round) is the most dangerous of all conditions.

If you are discussing just these two (Condition one or three)... then you must also take into account the longer time to ready the weapon and the ability to screw it up when the SHTF.

Plus, the OP was going to have it in a safe. IMO, that is plenty of time to "wake up".

Personally, I keep it (G19 or Sig239) in a holster by the bed. The holster slows me down a bit, but I get the benefit of an extra round AND the protection of a trigger guard.

As for keeping it away from kids... A Serious issue, but the OP was discussing a safe. If the kid is smart/able enough to get into the safe, then they are smart/able enough to rack a slide.

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Yes, it puts me at a tactical disadvantage.
Yes, that 5 seconds may mean the difference between life and death.

And as long as you are willing to accept that...great.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnRich 4]

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By my bed is a revolver so all of these points are good but for my situation moot. The other handgun in the house I do keep in condition one though. So.... if it is somewhere else and you are not dealing with waking up still half asleep would you keep a semi auto in condition one?

On your revolver:
1) Do you have the hammer cocked over a live round?
2) Hammer down on a live round?
3) Or hammer down on on an empty cylinder?

[Rstanley0312 1]

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By my bed is a revolver so all of these points are good but for my situation moot. The other handgun in the house I do keep in condition one though. So.... if it is somewhere else and you are not dealing with waking up still half asleep would you keep a semi auto in condition one?

On your revolver:
1) Do you have the hammer cocked over a live round?
2) Hammer down on a live round?
3) Or hammer down on on an empty cylinder?

It's a hammerless S&W airweight 5 shot .38 w'crimson grip. It was my carry weapon for quite sometime.

So the hammer inside is down over a live round.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com