"Pay to play" politics?

[justinb138 0]

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President Obama's moves to boost the labor movement suffered a setback this week, when the administration was forced to cancel the first federal construction contract in more than a decade requiring union representation of workers.

The Department of Labor, citing a "need to evaluate the issues" surrounding the union-friendly bidding process, pulled the plug on the competition for a $35 million contract to build a 160,000-square-foot Job Corps Center in Manchester, N.H., after contractors formally challenged the union mandate.

The requirement, known as a "project labor agreement" or PLA, was adopted as one in a series of policy changes by Mr. Obama to strengthen the labor movement, though he has not delivered on unions' top legislative priority, the so-called "card-check" bill that would make it easier to organize workplaces.

"This is a real win for the principle of fair and open competition in government procurement," said Maurice Baskin, an attorney for the business group Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC), which backed the complaint credited with derailing the PLA.

Mr. Baskin said it was no coincidence that the Labor Department decided to shelve the project the day before the agency was required to respond to the bid protest filed with the Government Accountability Office.

"We demonstrated that there was no justification for imposing a PLA on this project and that the PLA mandate violated the Competition in Contracting Act and other long-standing federal procurement requirements," he said.

The Labor Department acknowledged that the PLA, which would have been the first one on a federal construction job since President Clinton was in office, was the reason it called off the bids.

"It is in the public interest for the department to further evaluate the issues involved in the PLA requirement. The PLA requirement is a new issue at DOL," the department said in the cancellation notice Tuesday.

The agency said it has not abandoned the New Hampshire project, but it remained unclear whether a second bid solicitation will have the same union requirements.

Union officials were not available to comment, but they previously defended PLAs as necessary instruments for ensuring construction companies hire highly skilled workers and pay them fair wages.

Labor Department officials also were unavailable during the Veterans Day holiday.

The PLAs, which incorporate collective-bargaining agreements into the contract that require construction companies to agree to recognize union representation of the workers, hire some workers from union halls, follow union work rules and contribute to union pensions.

North Branch Construction, a Concord, N.H.-based general contractor and ABC member, filed the bid protest last month, claiming the PLA "unduly restricts competition."

When the New Hampshire project was announced, critics warned that the union rules would drive up costs, delay the project and force most of the workers to pay union dues and pension contributions for which they likely will never receive benefits.

Just 8.7 percent of construction workers are unionized in New Hampshire.

Nationwide, about 16 percent of construction trades workers were union members or covered by union contracts in 2008, despite union workers generally receiving higher pay and better benefits than their nonunion counterparts, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

An executive order by Mr. Obama in the first weeks of his presidency would make PLAs the norm for all federal contracts on large-scale construction jobs. The order is under review and a final rule is not expected for months, but the Labor Department went ahead and imposed a PLA on the New Hampshire job.

The order replaced one by the Bush administration that discouraged the use of such agreements.

Despite the setback for PLAs, Mr. Obama's policies have largely succeeded in tipping the advantage to the labor movement.

He signed three other pro-union executive orders, including one requiring contractors on large federal projects to post signs informing workers of the right to join a union. The president also has appointed a succession of union loyalists to top spots in the Labor Department and on the National Labor Relations Board, which administers federal law governing the relations between unions and employers.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/12/obamas-union-drive-stumbles-in-n-h/

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"We spent a fortune to elect Barack Obama -- $60.7 million to be exact -- and we're proud of it," boasted Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union, to the Las Vegas Sun this week.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/05/13/big_labors_investment_in_obama_pays_off_96469.html

Andrew Stern (head of the SEIU) has visited the White House 21 times since Obama has been in office - one of the most frequent visitors.

What do you think?

[quade 4]

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What do you think?

I think there are corporations and I think there is labor. I think both sides are required to do anything. I think that for many years, starting with the Reagan administration, corporations have been given huge breaks toward union busting. Some people that call themselves conservatives bitch about "Union Bosses", but I think the current balance is way out of whack in favor of "Corporate Bosses."

The average working guy today has far less power and real money in his pocket than at any time in the last 50 years and a big reason for that has to do with the notion that "unions are bad" and union busting. Corporations can run roughshod over their employees and the best folks can hope for right now is to get screwed over as little as possible. Even now most union negotiations are not about increases, but rather limiting cuts.

When I see the decline of the automotive industry and the completely stupid and insane vehicles they've been selling; when I see the amount of corporate greed at the top; trust me, it's not ALL the union's fault. The same goes pretty much across the board in most industries. Management makes horrible decisions and still takes home huge paychecks. Corporate Presidents are hired and fired in major companies and leave with 90 million dollar severance packages for shitty work done over 9 months.

Somebody, somewhere, needs to be looking out for the little guys.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[justinb138 0]

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What do you think?

I think there are corporations and I think there is labor. I think both sides are required to do anything. I think that for many years, starting with the Reagan administration, corporations have been given huge breaks toward union busting. Some people that call themselves conservatives bitch about "Union Bosses", but I think the current balance is way out of whack in favor of "Corporate Bosses."

The average working guy today has far less power and real money in his pocket than at any time in the last 50 years and a big reason for that has to do with the notion that "unions are bad" and union busting. Corporations can run roughshod over their employees and the best folks can hope for right now is to get screwed over as little as possible. Even now most union negotiations are not about increases, but rather limiting cuts.

When I see the decline of the automotive industry and the completely stupid and insane vehicles they've been selling; when I see the amount of corporate greed at the top; trust me, it's not ALL the union's fault. The same goes pretty much across the board in most industries. Management makes horrible decisions and still takes home huge paychecks. Corporate Presidents are hired and fired in major companies and leave with 90 million dollar severance packages for shitty work done over 9 months.

Somebody, somewhere, needs to be looking out for the little guys.

I think I'd agree with most of what you wrote, although we may disagree whether unions' goals involve looking out for the little guy. I see them as pretty much the same as big, government-involved business - looking out for their own interests.

[kallend 2,148]

The amount of money given by BIG PHARMA to legislators makes the unions look like pikers.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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Somebody, somewhere, needs to be looking out for the little guys.

management will only do enough of that to ensure the working base stays engaged

union do even less than that for the 'little guys'

it seems that it's not a matter of bosses vs unions - it should be government protecting the 'little guys' from the "Bosses and Unions"

or even better, 'little guys' having enough opportunity to leave one job for another whenever the bosses or the unions screw them enough

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[BDashe 0]

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I think the current balance is way out of whack in favor of "Corporate Bosses."

The average working guy today has far less power and real money in his pocket than at any time in the last 50 years

I couldn't disagree with you more.

I will say, top execs get paid a lot in some situations where they do not deserve it. Ultimately, a guy creating or leading a company with 100,000 jobs certainly deserves considerably more than a glorified janitor. UAW is absolutely a great example of how the unions have f*cked up our placement in the market. our sh*t is flat out over priced.

It is happening in SFO with the hotels right now- the hotels are barely holding on to keep their doors open, and the union has authroizaed a strike for MORE benefits and MORE wages while management has been on a salary freeze for 2 years and pay nearly $200 a month for healthcare, while labor gets it for $10.

The simple truth is corporations used to take full advantage of labor, then labor started to organize, now labor is taking full advantage of corporations where ever possible. There needs to be a balance.

Edit: w/r/t the OP- pretty much everyone everywhere tries to buy votes. I dont agree with it but sadly, that's how it works a lot of the time. I hate all politicians.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[rushmc 23]

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What do you think?

I think there are corporations and I think there is labor. I think both sides are required to do anything. I think that for many years, starting with the Reagan administration, corporations have been given huge breaks toward union busting. Some people that call themselves conservatives bitch about "Union Bosses", but I think the current balance is way out of whack in favor of "Corporate Bosses."

The average working guy today has far less power and real money in his pocket than at any time in the last 50 years and a big reason for that has to do with the notion that "unions are bad" and union busting. Corporations can run roughshod over their employees and the best folks can hope for right now is to get screwed over as little as possible. Even now most union negotiations are not about increases, but rather limiting cuts.

When I see the decline of the automotive industry and the completely stupid and insane vehicles they've been selling; when I see the amount of corporate greed at the top; trust me, it's not ALL the union's fault. The same goes pretty much across the board in most industries. Management makes horrible decisions and still takes home huge paychecks. Corporate Presidents are hired and fired in major companies and leave with 90 million dollar severance packages for shitty work done over 9 months.

Somebody, somewhere, needs to be looking out for the little guys.

I agree. GM should have had some help dealing with big labor. They may not be owned by Obama had they had that help

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,148]

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What do you think?

I think there are corporations and I think there is labor. I think both sides are required to do anything. I think that for many years, starting with the Reagan administration, corporations have been given huge breaks toward union busting. Some people that call themselves conservatives bitch about "Union Bosses", but I think the current balance is way out of whack in favor of "Corporate Bosses."

The average working guy today has far less power and real money in his pocket than at any time in the last 50 years and a big reason for that has to do with the notion that "unions are bad" and union busting. Corporations can run roughshod over their employees and the best folks can hope for right now is to get screwed over as little as possible. Even now most union negotiations are not about increases, but rather limiting cuts.

When I see the decline of the automotive industry and the completely stupid and insane vehicles they've been selling; when I see the amount of corporate greed at the top; trust me, it's not ALL the union's fault. The same goes pretty much across the board in most industries. Management makes horrible decisions and still takes home huge paychecks. Corporate Presidents are hired and fired in major companies and leave with 90 million dollar severance packages for shitty work done over 9 months.

Somebody, somewhere, needs to be looking out for the little guys.

I agree. GM should have had some help dealing with big labor. They may not be owned by Obama had they had that help

Company execs get paid big bucks to manage the company. That includes dealing with their workers.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Company execs get paid big bucks to manage the company. That includes dealing with their workers.

So do union bosses...that includes dealing with the company execs.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,148]

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Company execs get paid big bucks to manage the company. That includes dealing with their workers.

So do union bosses...that includes dealing with the company execs.

No, union bosses are not paid to manage companies, nor do they make big bucks like the CEOs of GM and Ford.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnDeere 0]

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Company execs get paid big bucks to manage the company. That includes dealing with their workers.

So do union bosses...that includes dealing with the company execs.

No, union bosses are not paid to manage companies, nor do they make big bucks like the CEOs of GM and Ford.

Yea them poor union bosses.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21533

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[quade 4]

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Company execs get paid big bucks to manage the company. That includes dealing with their workers.

So do union bosses...that includes dealing with the company execs.

No, union bosses are not paid to manage companies, nor do they make big bucks like the CEOs of GM and Ford.

Yea them poor union bosses.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21533

From my count, 6 of the 10 union bosses you're talking about are just about on par or below the highest paid members of those unions. In a couple of cases far below the highest paid members of those unions.

Really, counting the sports and entertainment unions is kind of silly there if the point you're trying to make is how they're screwing over the little guys.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Krip 2]

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Yea them poor union bosses.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21533

Hi JD

Looked up your link. It looks like a right wing rag that has no interest in showing a balanced picture.

Get a source that compares Poor union bosses to Poor bankers, poor wall street , poor CEO's , poor mortage brokers, poor realators, poor lawyers.

Then we can compare numbers

One Jump Wonder

[kallend 2,148]

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Company execs get paid big bucks to manage the company. That includes dealing with their workers.

So do union bosses...that includes dealing with the company execs.

No, union bosses are not paid to manage companies, nor do they make big bucks like the CEOs of GM and Ford.

Yea them poor union bosses.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21533

Did you actually read what you linked?

NBA players association
MLB players association
NFL players association
Directors' Guild
Screen Actors' Guild
Actors and Artists



Which companies do they manage?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rick 67]

Maybe not all the Union's fault but they add a LOT of unnecessary costs to projects and in my admittedley limited experience are thugs and bullies.

Why should I have to pay for an electrician to stay with a crew working at night (premeum pay) just to unplug and plug in extension cords.?

Why when I walk away from a job in Atlantic City do I have to worry about thugs coming in at night and cutting all the wires to my transformers because we are not a union shop?

When a group thinks that they own a certain city or area that is just organized crime in my book.


edited for spelling

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[BDashe 0]

Here is what i get out of that article- you make it to the top in any organization and you get paid appropriately. So the top union guys dont make 10 mil on stock options or a real estate deal, their industry doesnt provide that opportunity but they still get paid high 6 and 7 figures.

It isn't a crime to be wealthy, when did it become so taboo to get rich? Why does it make a person evil? That was the american dream, it has now been perverted into b*tching and moaning to try and get paid more to work less. How bout trying work more to get paid more, interesting concept... Union bosses and biz execs seemed to figure that out. I guarantee they didnt go on strike to get a promotion.

Yeah, the media loves to show the super rich that swindled their way up there, but that is in the lowest standard deviation on the bell curve of execs.

I feel like you guys would be celebrating madhoff's career since he gave it to the rich guys pretty good...

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[Andy9o8 2]

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Why when I walk away from a job in Atlantic City do I have to worry about thugs coming in at night and cutting all the wires to my transformers because we are not a union shop?

When a group thinks that they own a certain city or area that is just organized crime in my book.

Joisey? You got a problem wit dat?

[Rick 67]

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Why when I walk away from a job in Atlantic City do I have to worry about thugs coming in at night and cutting all the wires to my transformers because we are not a union shop?

When a group thinks that they own a certain city or area that is just organized crime in my book.

Joisey? You got a problem wit dat?

no problem with Jersey just didn't realize that the unions own the Atlantic City til I tried to do some work there.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[Krip 2]

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Why when I walk away from a job in Atlantic City do I have to worry about thugs coming in at night and cutting all the wires to my transformers because we are not a union shop?

When a group thinks that they own a certain city or area that is just organized crime in my book.

Joisey? You got a problem wit dat?

no problem with Jersey just didn't realize that the unions own the Atlantic City til I tried to do some work there.

I'm confused So you all think the mob is unionized or everyone who belongs to the union is a good fella.

I grew up in NYC and wanted to be a electician my sho teacher ask me if I had any relatives who belonged to the union. TBSS we were SOL

I don't think it's any different than nepotism in a lot of companies and I saw it even in the federal gov't and the military. How do you think McCann got into the NA. His daddy

For the rank and file union guy's it was a father, son, cousin thing. The busiess agents, organizers, no shows it was another matter

We got a non union electicans helper job right out of HS making minimum wage.

No big deal thats life.

One Jump Wonder

[kallend 2,148]

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Here is what i get out of that article- you make it to the top in any organization and you get paid appropriately. So the top union guys dont make 10 mil on stock options or a real estate deal, their industry doesnt provide that opportunity but they still get paid high 6 and 7 figures.

It isn't a crime to be wealthy, when did it become so taboo to get rich? Why does it make a person evil? That was the american dream, it has now been perverted into b*tching and moaning to try and get paid more to work less. How bout trying work more to get paid more, interesting concept... Union bosses and biz execs seemed to figure that out. I guarantee they didnt go on strike to get a promotion.

Yeah, the media loves to show the super rich that swindled their way up there, but that is in the lowest standard deviation on the bell curve of execs.

I feel like you guys would be celebrating madhoff's career since he gave it to the rich guys pretty good...

None of which alters the fact that management, not unions, are responsible for managing their companies, and that includes managing their workforce.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Here is what i get out of that article- you make it to the top in any organization and you get paid appropriately. So the top union guys dont make 10 mil on stock options or a real estate deal, their industry doesnt provide that opportunity but they still get paid high 6 and 7 figures.

It isn't a crime to be wealthy, when did it become so taboo to get rich? Why does it make a person evil? That was the american dream, it has now been perverted into b*tching and moaning to try and get paid more to work less. How bout trying work more to get paid more, interesting concept... Union bosses and biz execs seemed to figure that out. I guarantee they didnt go on strike to get a promotion.

Yeah, the media loves to show the super rich that swindled their way up there, but that is in the lowest standard deviation on the bell curve of execs.

I feel like you guys would be celebrating madhoff's career since he gave it to the rich guys pretty good...

None of which alters the fact that management, not unions, are responsible for managing their companies, and that includes managing their workforce.

Yes, of course - because corporate management are the ones telling the workers to go on strike or slowdown, right?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Rookie120 0]

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Yes, of course - because corporate management are the ones telling the workers to go on strike or slowdown, right?

No, they are the ones who piss on the workers so much they push back. I have been in both union and non-union shops and the result is the same. Workers will take so much until they say thats enough and do things like you described above.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[mnealtx 0]

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Yes, of course - because corporate management are the ones telling the workers to go on strike or slowdown, right?

No, they are the ones who piss on the workers so much they push back. I have been in both union and non-union shops and the result is the same. Workers will take so much until they say thats enough and do things like you described above.

Sure - but according to John, the corps have complete control over the workers. He seems to keep forgetting about union shops...isn't that convenient?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnDeere 0]

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Company execs get paid big bucks to manage the company. That includes dealing with their workers.

So do union bosses...that includes dealing with the company execs.

No, union bosses are not paid to manage companies, nor do they make big bucks like the CEOs of GM and Ford.

Yea them poor union bosses.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21533

Did you actually read what you linked?

NBA players association
MLB players association
NFL players association
Directors' Guild
Screen Actors' Guild
Actors and Artists



Which companies do they manage?

Yes i did and my point was very clear. If you cant figure it out, you should ask for help

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[Rookie120 0]

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Sure - but according to John, the corps have complete control over the workers.

I don't see where he said that.

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He seems to keep forgetting about union shops...isn't that convenient?

What about union shops? You think just because I am in a union shop we call the shots? We are in contract talks now. No raise since 2001 and the company told us to basically get fucked and walked away from the table. Never gave us the chance to talk about a raise. Here it is, take it or leave it and they walked away. So much for the union controlling things.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!