Lucky... 0 #26 November 9, 2009 Quote Quote Quote I feelbetter the gov making that decision. That is the difference for most of us. Please know I am NOT disputing your comment here. That being said....... No, it is what scares the hell out of many of us. lucky is so far left anything being right of Marx looks radical to him Binary Rush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #27 November 9, 2009 Quote I'm constantly working on it. Even if I had HC ins, I would want this, so your point is irrelevant. So you don't have insurance-get a better job, can't get a better job yet-improve yourself so you can but keep your hands out of my pocket in the meantime. Quote Last I checked in college 25% of welfare recipients were chronic. That's my point-basic needs met, no real motivation to change.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #28 November 9, 2009 >improve yourself so you can but keep your hands out of my pocket in the meantime. I don't think even the most hardened right winger would be willing to let a child die so that they do not have to pay for her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #29 November 9, 2009 Quote>improve yourself so you can but keep your hands out of my pocket in the meantime. I don't think even the most hardened right winger would be willing to let a child die so that they do not have to pay for her. Bill please! Talk about fear mongering. Wow.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #30 November 9, 2009 >Bill please! Talk about fear mongering. ?? I assume no one here is a child, so no one need fear such a scenario. In addition, no one here would deny a child healthcare under such a situation no matter what her financial/familial/immigration status, which means that there will be "hands taking money out of your pocket" in some situations. The current healthcare debate is, in part, the mechanics of how that happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #31 November 9, 2009 Please tell us then how and why children are dying because they lack healthcare.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #32 November 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteAre you kidding? have you read this thing. It will change what I pay for the SAME sort of coverage by 5 times. It literally will be less expensive for me to be unemployed. Are you kidding me? Have you read all 2000 pages? I didn't think so. Whatever the outcome, youyr party didn't want to propose a fix, so here it is. The R electorate passed McCain by and chose a war coward and his VP thug; quit acting as if there isn't blame to spread and virtually all the debt was incurred under an R. What party you talkin bout Willis? I'm not down with the GOP....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #33 November 9, 2009 QuoteSo you don't have insurance-get a better job, can't get a better job yet-improve yourself so you can but keep your hands out of my pocket in the meantime. Eitehr show me the roadmap between HC and your pocket or quit the rhetoric. QuoteThat's my point-basic needs met, no real motivation to change. Right, and that was before Clinton's Workfare. So what, deal with the 25%, bit don't act as tho ALL welfare recipients are ALWAYS sucking it down; it's actually a small minority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #34 November 9, 2009 Quote>Bill please! Talk about fear mongering. ?? I assume no one here is a child, so no one need fear such a scenario. In addition, no one here would deny a child healthcare under such a situation no matter what her financial/familial/immigration status, which means that there will be "hands taking money out of your pocket" in some situations. The current healthcare debate is, in part, the mechanics of how that happens. Maybe not here, but the R's did fight the child HC Bill. I'm sure you're aware. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #35 November 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteAre you kidding? have you read this thing. It will change what I pay for the SAME sort of coverage by 5 times. It literally will be less expensive for me to be unemployed. Are you kidding me? Have you read all 2000 pages? I didn't think so. Whatever the outcome, youyr party didn't want to propose a fix, so here it is. The R electorate passed McCain by and chose a war coward and his VP thug; quit acting as if there isn't blame to spread and virtually all the debt was incurred under an R. What party you talkin bout Willis? I'm not down with the GOP.... Libertarians are even worse when it comes to welfare; they just don't care and ignore it. So the Libertarians didn't propose anything I read, or was it to let the church fix everything as they always sing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #36 November 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteSo you don't have insurance-get a better job, can't get a better job yet-improve yourself so you can but keep your hands out of my pocket in the meantime. Eitehr show me the roadmap between HC and your pocket or quit the rhetoric. just so we're straight... you seriously believe that taxes won't be raised to pay for the HC program, or as a result of it's cost. Is that about right then?-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #37 November 9, 2009 Maybe the Libertarians think this isn't a problem the govenment has a responsibility to fix. Maybe they think people ought to get off their ass and help themselves....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #38 November 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo you don't have insurance-get a better job, can't get a better job yet-improve yourself so you can but keep your hands out of my pocket in the meantime. Eitehr show me the roadmap between HC and your pocket or quit the rhetoric. just so we're straight... you seriously believe that taxes won't be raised to pay for the HC program, or as a result of it's cost. Is that about right then? 1) In the bill has provisions for essentially millionaires to be taxed, esp for cadillas HC poicies. That's very obscure. 2) Under Obama taxes will raise even if the HC bill dies in teh senate and is never vrought up again. So it isn't the HC that will raise taxes, it's that Obama guy and the D congress. Same with Clinton, HC failed to even get written, yet taxes rose - saem, here. Will your taxes increase due top the HC bill if it passes? No way. Did your taxes raise as a result of the Iraq War 1 trillion dollars later? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #39 November 9, 2009 QuoteMaybe the Libertarians think this isn't a problem the govenment has a responsibility to fix. Maybe they think people ought to get off their ass and help themselves.... Ok, but ur kinda dodging me here. Many people can't help themselves. This is what Hoover said in regard to the great depression, volunteerism, bla, bla,.... And I don't think it's a responsibility of the gov to spend 8 times that of #2 military spending wise, many R's are ok with it. It is a job of gove to ensure basic safety and security of the people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #40 November 9, 2009 Ahhh, we're in agreement on something... I'm pretty sure the US government is pissing away a whole bunch of my hard earned cash overseas as well..... I see the role of the federal government simply as a mediator.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #41 November 9, 2009 QuoteAhhh, we're in agreement on something... I'm pretty sure the US government is pissing away a whole bunch of my hard earned cash overseas as well..... I see the role of the federal government simply as a mediator. Yea, but you're not in charge - welcome to your opinion, but the gov is lots more than that and should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #42 November 9, 2009 >Please tell us then how and why children are dying because they lack >healthcare. They're not. Right now we 'pay' for them by bankrupting hospitals, doctors and insurance plans. We should fix that. (Which is part of what this bill does.) BTW I find it pretty funny that you consider the statement "we will not let children die" to be fearmongering. I guess claiming that there will be "death boards" to kill your grandparents and children is just unemotional fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #43 November 9, 2009 QuoteAhhh, we're in agreement on something... I'm pretty sure the US government is pissing away a whole bunch of my hard earned cash overseas as well..... I see the role of the federal government simply as a mediator. See, this is why I spend time here; I am forced to learn by inquisitive people. The very thing I'm refering to with the gov manufacturing things was found in the GD era as part of the New Deal is the NRA, National Recovery Administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Recovery_Administration It was est in 1933 and ater struck as unconst under the separation of powers under the United States Constitution. It was later reinserted as the National Labor Relations Act (Wagner Act). So FDR did what he had to to get people back to work. You guys hate presidents like FDR and maybe Eisenhower, as he left taxes reallly high, but the schoolars love these guys and have worked them to the top in teh lost of best presidents, guys like Reagan started high, is down to 12 now, and falling. Hoover and GWB are like 7th from the end, Clinton is working his way up as we see what debt does to us and which presidents pander to the rich. That seems to be the criteria; pander to the rich and find the bottom; work for the people and climb up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #44 November 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteAhhh, we're in agreement on something... I'm pretty sure the US government is pissing away a whole bunch of my hard earned cash overseas as well..... I see the role of the federal government simply as a mediator. Yea, but you're not in charge - welcome to your opinion, but the gov is lots more than that and should be. Yea, but you're not in charge - welcome to your opinion, but the gov is lots more than it[sic] should be. -fixed it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #45 November 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteAhhh, we're in agreement on something... I'm pretty sure the US government is pissing away a whole bunch of my hard earned cash overseas as well..... I see the role of the federal government simply as a mediator. Yea, but you're not in charge - welcome to your opinion, but the gov is lots more than that and should be. Yea, but you're not in charge - welcome to your opinion, but the gov is lots more than it[sic] should be. -fixed it No I'm not in charge, I'm just watching the thing play out and become more like I want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #46 November 9, 2009 Quote>Please tell us then how and why children are dying because they lack >healthcare. They're not. Right now we 'pay' for them by bankrupting hospitals, doctors and insurance plans. We should fix that. (Which is part of what this bill does.) Quote If it was only that simple. People lacking insurance is only part of the overall $$ problem. What you and many others fail to see is all we're going to do is shift the burden to the taxpayer directly so that those who don't have coverage don't need to worry about it. I have a problem with that. BTW I find it pretty funny that you consider the statement "we will not let children die" to be fearmongering. I guess claiming that there will be "death boards" to kill your grandparents and children is just unemotional fact. You've never heard me say anything about death panels.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #47 November 9, 2009 Quote Quote Most welfare recipient's already have access to gov't paid HC so it's a moot point. So, who are these folks who can't get HC? There are people who work (working poor) who are above the threshold for welfare, yet can't even come close to HC. The you have people with pre-existing, people like me who haven't had HC ins for years and would probably not be able to get it oe get affordable coverage due to the ins co's knowing people like me have deferred ins and would be a big risk. People like my GF who can't retire after working for 29 years at the same plce, she has pre-existings that prohibit her to retire and still have ins. The list goes on, but I guess you are comfortable to have a corporation decide who get care and how much it will cost. I feelbetter the gov making that decision. I certanly don't feel better having the gov make those choices for me. TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #48 November 9, 2009 Yep, more like you want. Thanks Quote Finance News Pelosi Healthcare Bill Has Hidden Tax on Young Monday, November 9, 2009 9:55 AM By: Gene J. Koprowski The under-30 crowd that clamored for Barack Obama last year needs to brace for a change they won’t believe in: The return of income tax “bracket creep,” according to The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page. “Buried in Nancy Pelosi's health-care bill is a provision that will partially repeal tax indexing for inflation, meaning that as their earnings rise over a lifetime these youngsters can look forward to paying higher rates even if their income gains aren't real,” the editors write. This is budget trickery at its worst: To raise money to make their plan appear as if it won't add to the federal deficit, House Democrats have intentionally not indexed the main tax feature of their plan: the $500,000 threshold for the 5.4-percentage-point income tax surcharge, and the tax on small businesses which don’t provide health insurance benefits. “This is a sneaky way for politicians to pry more money out of workers every year without having to legislate tax increases,” write the editors. The effects of failing to index compounds, generating a revenue windfall for government as time passes. “Americans of a certain age have seen this movie before. In 1960, only 3 percent of tax filers paid a 30 percent or higher marginal tax rate. By 1980, after the inflation of the 1970s, the share was closer to 33 percent,” the editors write. “These stealth tax increases were widely seen to be unjust. And in 1981 as part of the Reagan tax cuts, a bipartisan coalition voted to index the tax brackets for inflation.” Overseas, the center-right coalition of German Chancellor Angela Merkel is taking the lessons of Reagan approach to economic stimulus, ending Germany’s “bracket creep,” as a way to boost the recovery there, reports Zeit Online. "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #49 November 9, 2009 QuoteFunny how the R's always whine about fillibuster enactment; my how times change. Funny how the D's are supporting breaking all the promises they made just a few years ago..... My how times change."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #50 November 9, 2009 QuoteNo I'm not in charge, I'm just watching the thing play out and become more like I want. Of course it is. But, since you've already said that health insurance isn't enough of a priority for you to provide it for yourself, why should it be such a priority for me to provide it for you?You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites