BDashe 0 #1 November 6, 2009 Despite those on the left that think because Obama is in office and he said he can change things, doesn't mean he knows what to do or can fix/has fixed everything... we're in a real mess here. Not that this is all his fault, he aint fixing it. He's trying, I'll give him that. An amateur running things aint gonna do a whole lot of good, maybe a little, but not much... Truth be told, no one individual can single handedly fix what we all screwed up... hang on. ...though I believe I was told we'd level at 8% unemployment by throwing rich people's and china's money at all the problems... http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/06/news/economy/jobs_october/index.htm?postversion=2009110608 Opening sentence says enough, it goes downhill from there. "The nation's unemployment rate rose above 10% for the first time since 1983 in October, a much worse jump than expected as employers continued to trim jobs from payrolls."So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #2 November 6, 2009 QuoteNot that this is all his fault,... Please, oh please tell me what he did to contribe, cause or in any way be responsible for any part of the economic mess. Please be specific and then tell me what he should have done. Quote...though I believe I was told we'd level at 8% unemployment by throwing rich people's and china's money at all the problems... By whom? Limbaugh, Hannity, etc? 1) He took office the month it was 8.2%. 2) He hasn't raisd taxes, how is it that rich people's money are now being used? 3) China's money was borrowed to pay the mess created by GWB, to fight GWB's wars, etc. Quote"The nation's unemployment rate rose above 10% for the first time since 1983 in October, a much worse jump than expected as employers continued to trim jobs from payrolls." It wasn't unexpected, many/most people knew it would crest 10%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #3 November 6, 2009 A. As I said, it isnt all his fault, it's idiot america for racking up debt. he aint helping much though B. By his administation so he could pass the stimulus C. How the hell do you think we are going to pay for all this? magic wand? Fairy dust? He is a dem and a far left one at that. Look at his proposed tax bill, he already is re-eveluating lowering middle class taxes. Taxes WILL increase, I'll bet my life on it. D. It's our mess, morons for running up credit card debt, morons for signing bad loans, morons for issuing loans to people who obviously were dumb enough to sign em. E. Anyone with half a brain could see we would go well past 10%, that's not what we were sold from the admin, however. Bottom line: we'll be told anything to get an agenda passed.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #4 November 6, 2009 QuoteA. As I said, it isnt all his fault, it's idiot america for racking up debt. he aint helping much though I’m so sorry, you must have misunderstood the question, let me try again: Please, oh please tell me what he did to contribe, cause or in any way be responsible for any part of the economic mess. Please be specific and then tell me what he should have done. QuoteB. By his administation so he could pass the stimulus What by his admin and the stimulus? This is a scattered thought - put it together pls. QuoteC. How the hell do you think we are going to pay for all this? magic wand? Fairy dust? He is a dem and a far left one at that. Look at his proposed tax bill, he already is re-eveluating lowering middle class taxes. Taxes WILL increase, I'll bet my life on it. The lower 50% of all filers collectively pay < 3% of the total tax bill, so their taxes are irrelevant anyway. BTW, that’s 33k gross adjusted, So we’re talking about most people on this board or people just barely over that line. Yes, taxes will increase in 2 ways: 1) Bush’s tax cuts will expire in 2010. 2) There will be additional taxes for those making > 250k/yr. If we do a Hoover and lower taxes / ignore this mess, we will have what Hoover had - 12 mill dead, of course since we have a much bigger population, that would be more like 30 mill+. 1 way to pay for this is to cut our military in ½ so we are only 4 times the spenders of #2. QuoteD. It's our mess, morons for running up credit card debt, morons for signing bad loans, morons for issuing loans to people who obviously were dumb enough to sign em. Ok, it’s our mess and what? You didn’t finish your point. QuoteE. Anyone with half a brain could see we would go well past 10%, that's not what we were sold from the admin, however. Please show me where he said we wouldn’t go past 8%. QuoteBottom line: we'll be told anything to get an agenda passed. Oh, like, “They have WMD’s in them there hills….leading to set of wars that have cost almost 5k lives and > $1T. But I don’t see you bitching about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #5 November 6, 2009 QuoteBy whom? Limbaugh, Hannity, etc? No, by the Chair of the Council of Economic Advisors for Obama's administration - Christine Romer. She and Jared Bernstein created a nifty little report called "The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan" - you know, the stimulus bill. It had this nifty little chart in it, showing the unemployment rates with/without the stimulus bill. Here's a link to their chart, with actual unemployment numbers plotted. I'm sure it's easy to get confused about stuff like this, especially when you count people getting a raise as a 'job saved'.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #6 November 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteBy whom? Limbaugh, Hannity, etc? No, by the Chair of the Council of Economic Advisors for Obama's administration - Christine Romer. She and Jared Bernstein created a nifty little report called "The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan" - you know, the stimulus bill. It had this nifty little chart in it, showing the unemployment rates with/without the stimulus bill. Here's a link to their chart, with actual unemployment numbers plotted. I'm sure it's easy to get confused about stuff like this, especially when you count people getting a raise as a 'job saved'. I understand it's hard for you to actually answer the question asked. Altho you did post a source, you didn't post the parent page so I can understand the context and author - baby steps. So please: - Post the parent page - Answer when Clinon claimed he would keeep unemp < 8%; that was the originating question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #7 November 6, 2009 Quote1) Bush’s tax cuts will expire in 2010. No they won't. Take a look at Table S-5, the second line under "Adjustments to reflect current policiesMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #8 November 6, 2009 QuoteI understand it's hard for you to actually answer the question asked. I showed where the 8% figure came from - if you don't like that, that's your tough luck. QuoteAltho you did post a source, you didn't post the parent page so I can understand the context and author - baby steps. I know it's hard to understand "Maroon dots are actual unemployment data. Everything in blue was created by Obama's economic team", but I still hold out hope for you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #9 November 6, 2009 QuoteQuote1) Bush’s tax cuts will expire in 2010. No they won't. Take a look at Table S-5, the second line under "Adjustments to reflect current policies Right and Bush's tax cuts will expire at the end of 2010: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6621 All the 2001 tax cuts are set to expire at the end of 2010 unless Congress acts to extend them. So your budget is for 2010, the tax cuts will expire at the end of 2010 or first of 2011. Here's a better one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Growth_and_Tax_Relief_Reconciliation_Act_of_2001 One of the most notable characteristics of EGTRRA is that its provisions are designed to sunset, or revert to the provisions that were in effect before it was passed. EGTRRA will sunset on January 1, 2011 unless further legislation is enacted to make its changes permanent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #10 November 6, 2009 QuoteI showed where the 8% figure came from - if you don't like that, that's your tough luck. You showed a chart with no origin. Your refusal to post it makes clear that you have a reason not to. BDashe wrote: ...though I believe I was told we'd level at 8% unemployment by throwing rich people's and china's money at all the problems... Me 1) He took office the month it was 8.2%. ME Please show me where he said we wouldn’t go past 8%. MIKE: No, by the Chair of the Council of Economic Advisors for Obama's administration - Christine Romer. She and Jared Bernstein created a nifty little report called "The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan" - you know, the stimulus bill. It had this nifty little chart in it, showing the unemployment rates with/without the stimulus bill ______________________________ Altho I wish you weren't so coy and you would post the parent page for that chart, the question was and is: TELL ME WHERE OABAM SAID UNEMP WOULDN'T GO PAST 8%. I see you've backed off that by you saying: No, by the Chair of the Council of Economic Advisors for Obama's The lie going around is that Obama laid some promise where he allegedly said that unemp wouldn't go past 8%, APPARENTLY BEFOE HE WAS PRESIDENT, howevere, since unemp was 8.2% in Jan 09, I don;t see how that's possible. Posting a chart from someone else showing what the stimulus may have done for jobs monmths after the fact isn't the same as Obama making a prediction, promise or anything like that. QuoteI know it's hard to understand "Maroon dots are actual unemployment data. Everything in blue was created by Obama's economic team", but I still hold out hope for you. 1) That wasn't the issue in any way, this was about an alleged promise that unemp wouldn't exceed 8% before election, at the oath or some time that the RW lie media started this. 2) Whatever impact the stimulus had on jobs is probably true, but you haven't established a promise to not let them exceed 8% or posted a parent page for your chart - you must be proud of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 November 6, 2009 QuoteSo your budget is for 2010, the tax cuts will expire at the end of 2010 or first of 2011. Oh, of course - that's why Obama's team only has numbers in there for 2010 and it's blank out to 2019? Oh, wait...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #12 November 6, 2009 QuoteAltho I wish you weren't so coy and you would post the parent page for that chart, Google it yourself - that way you can't accuse me of using 'partisan sites'. Quotethe question was and is: TELL ME WHERE OABAM SAID UNEMP WOULDN'T GO PAST 8%. Nice way to frame the question so that you can claim victory. Is Obama suddenly not responsible for his Cabinet? "But, but... OBAMA didn't say it!!! It was just his Cabinet!!!"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #13 November 6, 2009 Once again we have one person arguing the same point (with no support) against multiple parties who seem to agree with each other. Not surprisingly we are LUCKY it's the same person each time. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #14 November 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteA. As I said, it isnt all his fault, it's idiot america for racking up debt. he aint helping much though I’m so sorry, you must have misunderstood the question, let me try again: Please, oh please tell me what he did to contribe, cause or in any way be responsible for any part of the economic mess. Please be specific and then tell me what he should have done. QuoteB. By his administation so he could pass the stimulus What by his admin and the stimulus? This is a scattered thought - put it together pls. QuoteC. How the hell do you think we are going to pay for all this? magic wand? Fairy dust? He is a dem and a far left one at that. Look at his proposed tax bill, he already is re-eveluating lowering middle class taxes. Taxes WILL increase, I'll bet my life on it. The lower 50% of all filers collectively pay < 3% of the total tax bill, so their taxes are irrelevant anyway. BTW, that’s 33k gross adjusted, So we’re talking about most people on this board or people just barely over that line. Yes, taxes will increase in 2 ways: 1) Bush’s tax cuts will expire in 2010. 2) There will be additional taxes for those making > 250k/yr. If we do a Hoover and lower taxes / ignore this mess, we will have what Hoover had - 12 mill dead, of course since we have a much bigger population, that would be more like 30 mill+. 1 way to pay for this is to cut our military in ½ so we are only 4 times the spenders of #2. QuoteD. It's our mess, morons for running up credit card debt, morons for signing bad loans, morons for issuing loans to people who obviously were dumb enough to sign em. Ok, it’s our mess and what? You didn’t finish your point. QuoteE. Anyone with half a brain could see we would go well past 10%, that's not what we were sold from the admin, however. Please show me where he said we wouldn’t go past 8%. QuoteBottom line: we'll be told anything to get an agenda passed. Oh, like, “They have WMD’s in them there hills….leading to set of wars that have cost almost 5k lives and > $1T. But I don’t see you bitching about that. will you quit being a fucking apologist long enough to see he's mostly blaming the American people who really caused this by thinking we could charge our way through this.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #15 November 9, 2009 Quote Once again we have one person arguing the same point (with no support) against multiple parties who seem to agree with each other. Not surprisingly we are LUCKY it's the same person each time. I didn't realize that we were taking attendance. Lucky's doing fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
