Shooting in Orlando office bldg

[billvon 3,120]

OK, so let's apply your solutions to this situation.

Would you pass a law that prohibits firing of employees to avoid this problem? Or a law that requires 100% employment?

[normiss 897]

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just as we all kind of thought

You're lumping a lot of people in your distorted view.
I never thought that for a second, nor do I now.
He has mental issues dealing with life. Period.

Unjustified murder accomplishes nothing...although he won't have to worry about employment now.

[warpedskydiver 0]

You are really missing the point, if a movie was based on a somewhat stupid premise, what does that have to do with you?


Don't pat yourself on the back too much

[kelpdiver 2]

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Here's an interesting factoid: http://www.dvinitiative.com/resources/wpstats_gunsinworkplace.asp California and Florida were the most dangerous states when it comes to workplace shootings

Only half interesting - CA was tops with 21 shootings in the time period, but that's hardly a shock given it's the largest state in the union. That Florida was next at 20 might be interesting, though it too is certainly one of the bigger states.

The article you cite was written by those desiring a Gun Free America, and it's pretty clear from their writing that bias can be presumed.

[kelpdiver 2]

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You really need to examine your thoughts before you post such things.

I think you are in the minority that thinks employment or a lack thereof is a reason to kill.

What you quoted was a fairly stupid Hollywood movie, life is just not that way.

Nothing Lucky said should be translated to believing that unemployment is a valid reason to kill. He's correctly saying that people can fall to despair. The fictional character would have been pretty common in LA in the early 90s. A lot of people there lost out in the Peace Dividend - a high school buddy's entire family ended up relocated to Utah as things dried up.

Throw in a wife leaving, and a person that wraps up their identity in their work or their ability to make a living and you have an unhappy person. You can feel for that, while not defending the actions he might commit.

This person simmered for two years, and suddenly does it now? Anyone else wonder if he's a copycat loser following yesterday's news?

[Lucky... 0]

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OK, so let's apply your solutions to this situation.

Would you pass a law that prohibits firing of employees to avoid this problem? Or a law that requires 100% employment?

Now you're being abstract. How a about a happy medium where we instill a federal law requiring 30 days vacation, as with W.E.; they get between 30 days and 9 weeks based upon the country.

Then we enable unionization even if only part of a shop wants to be union. And yes, we have the ability to organize here, but it is so fraught with blockers, it should be centralized and made to be easy and sure.

[Lucky... 0]

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just as we all kind of thought

You're lumping a lot of people in your distorted view.
I never thought that for a second, nor do I now.
He has mental issues dealing with life. Period.

Unjustified murder accomplishes nothing...although he won't have to worry about employment now.

I said, just as we thought, based upon our conversations here today, the conscensus was that he was fired and tehn returned; did you think otherwise? If so you were wrong.

Regardless of mental issues, his motive was that h was fired whetehr justified or not.

[Lucky... 0]

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You are really missing the point, if a movie was based on a somewhat stupid premise, what does that have to do with you?


Don't pat yourself on the back too much

Says Mr. no PA's 1 and done by lunch

Stupid premise....wow, how do I comprehend that clinical language....he's a stuopid pottyhead, poo-poo man.

The movie ws based upon a very real premise based upon very real actions in our society. Here, I have to educate you again (I should get paid): http://www.cdc.gov/Women/pubs/violence.htm


Among females, approximately 1 in 3 homicides are intimate partner homicides. Homicide is among the six leading causes of death for persons aged 1-44 years and accounts for approximately 18,000 deaths annually in the United States. The majority of homicides are committed by persons known to the victim.

[Lucky... 0]

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Here's an interesting factoid: http://www.dvinitiative.com/resources/wpstats_gunsinworkplace.asp California and Florida were the most dangerous states when it comes to workplace shootings

Only half interesting - CA was tops with 21 shootings in the time period, but that's hardly a shock given it's the largest state in the union. That Florida was next at 20 might be interesting, though it too is certainly one of the bigger states.

The article you cite was written by those desiring a Gun Free America, and it's pretty clear from their writing that bias can be presumed.

I just saw it refered to cal and fl as leaders, I wasn;t making an argument about anything. It probably is true, but rate is the key, not numbers, I agree.

[Lucky... 0]

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You really need to examine your thoughts before you post such things.

I think you are in the minority that thinks employment or a lack thereof is a reason to kill.

What you quoted was a fairly stupid Hollywood movie, life is just not that way.

Nothing Lucky said should be translated to believing that unemployment is a valid reason to kill. He's correctly saying that people can fall to despair. The fictional character would have been pretty common in LA in the early 90s. A lot of people there lost out in the Peace Dividend - a high school buddy's entire family ended up relocated to Utah as things dried up.

Throw in a wife leaving, and a person that wraps up their identity in their work or their ability to make a living and you have an unhappy person. You can feel for that, while not defending the actions he might commit.

This person simmered for two years, and suddenly does it now? Anyone else wonder if he's a copycat loser following yesterday's news?

Exactly. Employment is only 1 cog in the wheel, I think DR divorce laws/child custody norms suck and I have never been affected by them. I'm just saying that this is a phenomenon and if we just say, "crazy fucker' and fail to understand it and adjust for it then we're doomed to repeat, which we do and it's in part societies fault for not understanding it.

[quade 4]

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The US is probably the worst indust country in regard to workplace rights

Bullshit. You'd have to define things very, very narrowly for that to be true.

Wendy P.

Worse than China or third world nations? No.
Worse than much of Europe or Japan? By a number of metrics, yes.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,120]

>Now you're being abstract.

No, abstract is "let's think about this in general" - concrete is "how will you solve THIS problem?"

> How a about a happy medium where we instill a federal law requiring 30 days vacation . . .

OK. This guy still would have been fired, so that doesn't solve the problem (although I can see how someone still working might like a vacation.) So how does that solve THIS problem?

>Then we enable unionization even if only part of a shop wants to be union.

What does that mean? That you can force an entire shop to be union even if only 10% wants to be?

[mnealtx 0]

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Then we enable unionization even if only part of a shop wants to be union.

So much for those equal rights for everyone.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lucky... 0]

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Then we enable unionization even if only part of a shop wants to be union.

So much for those equal rights for everyone.

That's already in play I believe, hardly used. No, only those that want representation will get it, the union doesn't recognoze non-members unless they want to join.

[Lucky... 0]

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No, abstract is "let's think about this in general" - concrete is "how will you solve THIS problem?"

Abstract is one of those universal words with many meanings. Here is teh def:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abstract

1. Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.
2. Not applied or practical; theoretical. See Synonyms at theoretical.
3. Difficult to understand; abstruse: abstract philosophical problems.
4. Thought of or stated without reference to a specific instance: abstract words like truth and justice.
5. Impersonal, as in attitude or views.
6. Having an intellectual and affective artistic content that depends solely on intrinsic form rather than on narrative content or pictorial representation: abstract painting and sculpture.

So your definition isn't incorrect, it wasn't the context in which I used it. My point is that using extremes is abstract in that it is theorhetical, not literal.

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OK. This guy still would have been fired, so that doesn't solve the problem (although I can see how someone still working might like a vacation.) So how does that solve THIS problem?

Yes, but he could be receiving vacation pay while in jail . No, this was just one piece of the work we need to do to bring worker's benefits up to par; vacation alone won't make the deal.

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What does that mean? That you can force an entire shop to be union even if only 10% wants to be?

No, as I told Mike, I think you can do that now, have partial representation. Either way, the gov needs to appaoint a gov mediator at workplaces to note events as a union drive starts, as teh company is sleazy and will do nasty shit to break unions.

[billvon 3,120]

> My point is that using extremes is abstract in that it is theorhetical,
>not literal.

So to you this killing was "theoretical?" Odd.

>No, this was just one piece of the work we need to do to bring
>worker's benefits up to par; vacation alone won't make the deal.

OK, so that wouldn't have prevented this. Fair enough.

>No, as I told Mike, I think you can do that now, have partial
>representation.

OK, so what you propose is not a change, and wouldn't have prevented this. Fair enough.

> Either way, the gov needs to appaoint a gov mediator at workplaces to
> note events as a union drive starts as teh company is sleazy and will
>do nasty shit to break unions.

Do you think a government mediator would have prevented this shooting?

[mpohl 1]

Only in America.

The self-proclaimed greatest country on Earth....

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http://www.wesh.com/news/21541263/detail.html

What's this country coming to?

[Andy9o8 2]

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Only in America.

You think so, eh?

Well, maybe not.

Hard data - so damned inconvenient.

[timmyfitz 0]

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I said, just as we thought, based upon our conversations here today, the conscensus was that he was fired and tehn returned; did you think otherwise? If so you were wrong.

Regardless of mental issues, his motive was that h was fired whetehr justified or not.

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Despite reports he was fired from the company, he said he quit to find a better job but could only find work at Subway. Rodriguez told police that his former company forced him into a situation where he could no longer provide for his family.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21541263/detail.html

[Kennedy 0]

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Then we enable unionization even if only part of a shop wants to be union.

So much for those equal rights for everyone.

"You have the right to think and to say anything you want, as long as you agree with me."

Standard belief system for people with his point of view.

edit: spelling

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Lucky... 0]

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I said, just as we thought, based upon our conversations here today, the conscensus was that he was fired and tehn returned; did you think otherwise? If so you were wrong.

Regardless of mental issues, his motive was that h was fired whetehr justified or not.

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Despite reports he was fired from the company, he said he quit to find a better job but could only find work at Subway. Rodriguez told police that his former company forced him into a situation where he could no longer provide for his family.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21541263/detail.html

They played a taped interview from a supervisor/manager at the engineering firm. This manager said his "work product" was bad, they tried to help him, they couoldn't so they let him go. I believe the manager; how bout you?

[Lucky... 0]

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The downward spiral scenario. We all (at least males) identified with Michael Douglas in, "Falling Down" but then we find it so easy to jump on the bandwagon and want to draw and quarter this guy.

It's probably worth noting that his character never actually shoots and kills anyone in that movie. He chases off the gang members at the begining with a bat, after they crash during the driveby he shoots one of them in the leg and leaves them there, and he ends up stabbing the racist surplus store owner in a struggle for his life.

I feel like I'm arguing with Belgian over:

- 20 degrees is where carb icing starts as a rule

vs

- 20 degrees is where carb icing is most susceptable

Come on, it was a reference/analogy to a ficticious movie and comparing it to real life. The idea of a man being stripped of his ability to survive creates some whackos where there otherwise wouldn't be, that's my point.

[Lucky... 0]

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Then we enable unionization even if only part of a shop wants to be union.

So much for those equal rights for everyone.

"You have the right to think and to say anything you want, as long as you agree with me."

Standard belief system for people with his point of view.

edit: spelling

And you have the right to add nothing and complain about people who do, glad to see you excersizing it.