ridestrong 1 #1 November 5, 2009 Question 1: Are you tired of hearing people complain about how the Native Americans "had their continent taken away from them"? Question 2: If the Native Americans were given half of the land to do with what ever they pleased. Do you think they would still be living as they did before the invasion of the early settlers?*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 November 5, 2009 Q1: Not really. I think if we're going to criticize other countries for human rights violations and genocide, we pretty much have to keep reminding ourselves how this country was formed. Q2: Of course not! What a silly idea. If the Native Americans had eventual access to technology and education along with their resources and culture there's no reason to believe they'd be living as they did 400 years ago. That's just stupid. We're not living as we did just 100 years ago or even 50 or 10 years ago. That's just a stupid question.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #3 November 5, 2009 QuoteQ1: Not really. I think if we're going to criticize other countries for human rights violations and genocide, we pretty much have to keep reminding ourselves how this country was formed. Q2: Of course not! What a silly idea. If the Native Americans had eventual access to technology and education along with their resources and culture there's no reason to believe they'd be living as they did 400 years ago. That's just stupid. We're not living as we did just 100 years ago or even 50 or 10 years ago. That's just a stupid question. I agree, question 2 alone is a stupid question. However if one believes that they would have also willingly adopted technological advancements, built their own modernized cities, and changed their way of life. Then what was truly taken from them or to keep them from integrating into the rest of society. Aside from the obvious battles fought and lives lost from both sides. The argument always seems to be that "They had their land and way of life taken away from them." Which, yes.... in many ways is true. I just can't help but to wonder if they were given half the land without interference would things really be any different than they are today. Therefor making the aforementioned argument a moot point.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #4 November 5, 2009 QuoteWhich, yes.... in many ways is true. Which way wasn't it true? And what if they would have stayed in the 1500's forever? So what, isn't it their right? Many cultures today are quite behind us, we think they want to modernize but can't, other side is that they just don't want to modernize. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 November 5, 2009 QuoteI just can't help but to wonder if they were given half the land without interference would things really be any different than they are today. Depending on the land in question, they'd be VASTLY more wealthy. Part of the reason some families in the US are insanely fucking rich is that their ancestors shooed the natives off the land, they stuck stakes in it and extracted billions and billions of dollars worth of resources out of it. Those families did NOTHING but have the great fortune to have the US government shoo the natives off and to have been granted land.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #6 November 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhich, yes.... in many ways is true. Which way wasn't it true? And what if they would have stayed in the 1500's forever? So what, isn't it their right? Many cultures today are quite behind us, we think they want to modernize but can't, other side is that they just don't want to modernize. Ok... true in EVERY way. The question is not whether or not it happened. It would be great if they would have stayed in the 1500's if they so chose, no argument. Nothing is stopping the Amish from living without most all modern technologies. You just don't see Native Americans following the same choice to fore go modern advances.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #7 November 5, 2009 >Question 1: Are you tired of hearing people complain about how >Native Americans "had their continent taken away from them"? No. >Question 2: If the Native Americans were given half of the land to do >with what ever they pleased. Do you think they would still be living as >they did before the invasion of the early settlers? No, no more than we are wearing powdered wigs and riding horses to get to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #8 November 5, 2009 Well just you Bill, with your bicycle decked out as Washington's Horse, with you wearing a powdered merken, and a tri-corner hat. And not much else Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #9 November 5, 2009 QuoteQuestion 1: Are you tired of hearing people complain about how the Native Americans "had their continent taken away from them"? Question 2: If the Native Americans were given half of the land to do with what ever they pleased. Do you think they would still be living as they did before the invasion of the early settlers? #1 No. If you study the history of our (White Europeans) conquest of the "New World", you will see the horrific things that were done. Things that make Darfour, Rawanda, the Balkans, Cambodia's "Killing Fields" and even the Nazi concentration camps pale in comparison. There was a long argument that Indians weren't even human because the Bible didn't mention "red" skinned people. I'd much prefer reparations to the indians before freed slaves. #2 Some might. Just like the Amish, the "simpler" life has it's supporters. Most wouldn't. Eskimoes use snowmobiles and outboard motorboats. There are probably hundreds of other examples but that's the only one I can think of fast."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #10 November 5, 2009 QuoteIf you study the history of our (White Europeans) conquest of the "New World", you will see the horrific things that were done. Things that make Darfour, Rawanda, the Balkans, Cambodia's "Killing Fields" and even the Nazi concentration camps pale in comparison. Wow. Pale in comparison? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #11 November 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteIf you study the history of our (White Europeans) conquest of the "New World", you will see the horrific things that were done. Things that make Darfour, Rawanda, the Balkans, Cambodia's "Killing Fields" and even the Nazi concentration camps pale in comparison. Wow. Pale in comparison? Yep. What the conquistadors did to the Incas and Aztecs was horrific. And even the Nazis didn't make the Jews walk hundreds of miles to the concentration camps (search "Trail of Tears"). The crap we teach the kids even in high school is really slanted and sanitized."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #12 November 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhich, yes.... in many ways is true. Which way wasn't it true? And what if they would have stayed in the 1500's forever? So what, isn't it their right? Many cultures today are quite behind us, we think they want to modernize but can't, other side is that they just don't want to modernize. Ok... true in EVERY way. The question is not whether or not it happened. It would be great if they would have stayed in the 1500's if they so chose, no argument. Nothing is stopping the Amish from living without most all modern technologies. You just don't see Native Americans following the same choice to fore go modern advances. But what you call modern advances and think it's a great thing, me too for the most part, are what they call loss of culture. The word, "ethnocentric" come to mind and Americans, inc me are guilty of it. I guess since we've won most wars or tired of some and walked away we feel superior and that since we win wars and have the highest GDP in teh world that we can make our culture/ethnicity central. The ugly truth is that we are alos the biggest debtor and have pretty bad care for our poor, unlike what we would call 'lesser' nations. So the wakeup call won't come from a war loss, it will come from a fiscal asskicking and then we'll have to admit our culture isn't the best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 November 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf you study the history of our (White Europeans) conquest of the "New World", you will see the horrific things that were done. Things that make Darfour, Rawanda, the Balkans, Cambodia's "Killing Fields" and even the Nazi concentration camps pale in comparison. Wow. Pale in comparison? Yep. What the conquistadors did to the Incas and Aztecs was horrific. And even the Nazis didn't make the Jews walk hundreds of miles to the concentration camps (search "Trail of Tears"). The crap we teach the kids even in high school is really slanted and sanitized. I once heard a speech by a lecturer who said that when it comes to things like various genocides and crimes against humanity, "Don't compare" one against another - they're all horrible, period. Having said that, it's probably true that most Europeans were pale in comparison to most Native Americans. Thus the term. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
