GOP victory Tuesday won't erase party's problems

[Ron 10]

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Nope - by that angle they are doing well. By this angle, not so well:

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Republicans’ approval ratings worst in 25 years

And by this angle the Dems are not doing well:

Poll: Florida independent voters moving to right
A recent poll has shown that independent voters, who seemed to favor Democrats last year, are now siding more with Republicans.

Independent voters are more likely to side with Republicans than with Democrats on issues facing Floridians, according to a poll conducted for The Miami Herald and St. Petersburg Times.

Whether it's opposing a so-called ``public option'' for government-run health insurance, supporting oil drilling or a general feeling that the nation is on the wrong track, independents are proving a key ally for conservatives.

The more conservative sentiment is a reversal from a year ago, when Herald/Times polls showed that independents leaned more Democratic.

Chief reasons for the public-opinion turnaround, according to poll respondents and pollsters: the rough economy and President Barack Obama's difficulty in quickly living up to his campaign slogan, hope and change.

``The Obama administration made a lot of promises that it can't execute on right now,'' said Carlton Hughes, a 31-year-old independent voter and poll respondent from Punta Gorda. ``With the economy the way it is, we're shelling out a lot of money on a federal basis on programs that we're not sure will work. Who has been stimulated by this stimulus bill?''

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Lucky... 0]

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What's more, the GOP's ranks are thinning: Only 32 percent of respondents called themselves Republicans in a recent AP-GfK survey compared with 43 percent who called themselves Democrats.

[Reply]
Good lucky, righties - you'll need it.

Why the hell are you so damned terrified? Isn't it odd that you point to thinning ranks in a political party while mentioning that the same party may pick up wins against the opposition party?

The GOP losing members is not a problem for Dems unless Dems are losing them more quickly.

If the GOP gains seats, any argument you can try about how they're losing power is objectively falsifiable.

I'm not worried, just pointing out, once again, the right is failing

The right is gaining seats... so they're failing...

Only you could tie those two things together.

And only you could think winning *some* of the Governor seats is a win. Esp since you couldn't even hold Charlotte.

[Lucky... 0]

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091103/ap_on_el_ge/us_election_rdp

What's more, the GOP's ranks are thinning: Only 32 percent of respondents called themselves Republicans in a recent AP-GfK survey compared with 43 percent who called themselves Democrats.

Your linked story says nothing about that - maybe you should re-read it.

There *is* this, however:

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To be sure, it's easy to overanalyze the results of such a small number of elections in a few places. The results will only offer hints about the national political landscape and clues to the public's attitudes. And the races certainly won't predict what will happen in the 2010 midterm elections.

And the races certainly won't predict what will happen in the 2010 midterm elections.


Agreed.

[Lucky... 0]

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True, but I think we'll see a permantent shift here. And we are in a period of emergency with the debt and HC mess, so revolutionary times are here. After people get HC and are happy, could you see the next Repub on campaign? Every time the HC issue comes close, peopel, even Reoubs will be thinking.....you wanna take away my HC, don't you? A lot of now angry Repubs will become quit, closet Dems for fear of losing hC.

This remains your hope. History suggests otherwise.

Hillary Clinton spends most of 1993 trying to reform HC and what did that get her? Everlast hatred by half the population, and certainly contributed to the GOP victory in 1994.

If reforming HC was easy, it would have been done already. It's hard to do at all, and even harder to do in a way that will make people happy. Failing badly will drive voters the other way...to the waiting GOP. Succeed, and it could be 5 terms of FDR+Truman again. But odds seem against that level of success.

Of course that hatred in 93 translated to a win in 96. Also, if HC is successful, people gt to liking it, that could be the deal-maker; we'll see.

[Lucky... 0]

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Yep, shrinking base. It's considered an embarassment to align with the Repubs.

So the Republicans pick up seats, and the Dems loose seats, yet the Republican party is in trouble?

It is VERY clear you have no idea about the history of elections. Non Prez election year elections often flip the party in power.... Mainly because the party out of power does a better job of getting people to the polls.

But, you continue to show you have no idea how politics work and ignore history when it does not suit you.

In other words; Your theory is crap.

The losses in the NE are somewhat weird, but so is the Dem win in NC. NET RESULT: This remote election is meaningless and indicates nothing.

[Lucky... 0]

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091103/ap_on_el_ge/us_election_rdp

What's more, the GOP's ranks are thinning: Only 32 percent of respondents called themselves Republicans in a recent AP-GfK survey compared with 43 percent who called themselves Democrats.

Yep, shrinking base. It's considered an embarassment to align with the Repubs.

Also, the party's power center is mostly limited to the South, the one region McCain dominated last fall; Obama won almost everywhere else — including making inroads in emerging powerhouse regions like the West, although Republicans still solidly control several lightly populated states in the area.

With an electoral college, concentrated votes are a bad thing, you need dispersion.

Good lucky, righties - you'll need it.

Whatcha smokin?

Thx for being so huge in this thread; you own it baby.

You are very welcome little man

Whatcha smokin?

Ever look around and see others on your side make substantive points, yet you just cheerlead?

Dude you make a claim that is a lefty talking point and then stand behind it as if it is fact

Fact is, the largest self identified political group is conservative republican, then independents (who are now saying they will vote republican and then the last group is the Dems .

So my question remains, what you smokin?

What point is that, that you and conservatives cheerlead vs libs infight? Of course, even with your skewed party alignment position, when it comes to voting the left is less scattered.

[Lucky... 0]

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People were saying the same thing about the Democratic Party several years back. And the Repubs before that. And the Dems before that......

True, but I think we'll see a permantent shift here. And we are in a period of emergency with the debt and HC mess, so revolutionary times are here. After people get HC and are happy, could you see the next Repub on campaign? Every time the HC issue comes close, peopel, even Reoubs will be thinking.....you wanna take away my HC, don't you? A lot of now angry Repubs will become quit, closet Dems for fear of losing hC. Not to mention the young and minorities that will benefit and have been awakened in 08. Curtains, probably not, but it could be in time.

Have you forgotten 1994 when the Dems lost control of both the House and Senate? The media had all but written the Dems obituary.

True, but the pres was Dem and popular, so that offset it. He won by a massive margin in 96, even won AZ, which is a rarity here.

Yep. And I will bet you dollars to donuts that in a few years...maybe 1, maybe 3, maybe 7.....the Republican party will be back on it's feet. It's just a cycle.

Very well could be, but your side better play up Obama spending as if the Great Recession is his fault. We need a Dem to approach the people like Ross Perot in the single element of the data he brought. We need to remind or teach voters about the Great Depression, who caused it, who reacted inappropriately and who fixed it how. We need to look at the more major recessionary times like the early 80's and 1990 as well. If the data were presented in a concise manner, I think it would make people think and flip enough Repubs to Dems. Maybe I'm giving people too much credit, but I think appealing to their intelect is a better approach than appealing to their fear. After all, global warming, guns, abotion and the like will probably take a back seat to the debt in teh next 5-10 years and if teh people had an understanding as to whom caused that by undertaxing the filthy rich and overspending, esp on teh military, I think people would be persuaded to go Dem.

[mnealtx 0]

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Every time the HC issue comes close

Courtesy of Rasmussen:

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Just 42% now support the health care reform plan proposed by Obama and congressional Democrats. Most voters expect the plan if passed to drive up health care costs and hurt quality and expect a middle-class tax hike to pay for it.

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Very well could be, but your side better play up Obama spending as if the Great Recession is his fault.

Ok.

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For nearly four-out-of-five voters, the bigger problem for the country is not their unwillingness to pay higher taxes. It’s their elected representatives’ refusal to cut government spending.

Sixty-two percent (62%) of Americans say it’s always better to cut taxes than increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their own money.

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I think it would make people think and flip enough Repubs to Dems.

Oh, snap!

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For the first time in recent years, voters trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 key electoral issues, including the economy, regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Belgian_Draft 0]

My side? You keep forgetting I voted for Obama. I don't really consider myself, at the moment, to be much aligned with either party. Both do more to piss me off than to make me feel warm and cozy.

I was just looking over some posts here and noticed a commonality with other threads you have been posting in lately. It is glaringly obvious that, in almost every thread, you are arguing against almost everyone else. Did you ever stop to think that maybe..just maybe...you are wrong? You might want to consider the possibility.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[1969912 0]

His posts are just undergoing artificial aging, i.e., getting old.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Lucky... 0]

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My side? You keep forgetting I voted for Obama. I don't really consider myself, at the moment, to be much aligned with either party. Both do more to piss me off than to make me feel warm and cozy.

I was just looking over some posts here and noticed a commonality with other threads you have been posting in lately. It is glaringly obvious that, in almost every thread, you are arguing against almost everyone else. Did you ever stop to think that maybe..just maybe...you are wrong? You might want to consider the possibility.

That's because neo-cons stick together, we just discussd this in some thread. The blind allegiance doctirne that defines and regulates neo-conservatism demands they jump in and try to the strengths in numbers routine. They think having no substance or reference to their statements can be replaced with mere numbers agreeing on the same points.

[Lucky... 0]

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Just 42% now support the health care reform plan proposed by Obama and congressional Democrats. Most voters expect the plan if passed to drive up health care costs and hurt quality and expect a middle-class tax hike to pay for it.

For the life of me I can't figure out why you ddin't post the entire passage of mine:

Every time the HC issue comes close, peopel, even Reoubs will be thinking.....you wanna take away my HC, don't you? A lot of now angry Repubs will become quit, closet Dems for fear of losing hC.

Right and you fear HC reform as per the Dems because it will become desired and never turn back, every time a Repub campaigns on that matter, teh public will read between teh lines and know ifthat clown wins, it's curtains for HC as they then will know it.

Washington Post has it at 57% for a public option http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/10/20/GR2009102000148.html?sid=ST2009101902502

It states 45% support, 48% oppose what Obama is proposing, which is close to your uncited number, so with that, people think Obama is going far enough toward a public option, right? Obama is offering a water-down version with state opt out, the people must want more, as per the data.

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For nearly four-out-of-five voters, the bigger problem for the country is not their unwillingness to pay higher taxes. It’s their elected representatives’ refusal to cut government spending.

Sixty-two percent (62%) of Americans say it’s always better to cut taxes than increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their own money.

I couldn't find your Fox, Hannity, Newsmax ref, could you post it. How many times do you have to get hammered before you figure out that you HAVE TO PROVIDE SOURCES? Ridiculous, your data means shit unless you can find it within yourself to post source. Uh, Duh, er, uh....it's teh same as yours. WHat a joke.

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For the first time in recent years, voters trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 key electoral issues, including the economy, regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports.

This will be fun watching you wiggle around with your source.

[rushmc 23]

Feel it slipin dont you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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My side? You keep forgetting I voted for Obama. I don't really consider myself, at the moment, to be much aligned with either party. Both do more to piss me off than to make me feel warm and cozy.

I was just looking over some posts here and noticed a commonality with other threads you have been posting in lately. It is glaringly obvious that, in almost every thread, you are arguing against almost everyone else. Did you ever stop to think that maybe..just maybe...you are wrong? You might want to consider the possibility.

That's because neo-cons stick together, we just discussd this in some thread. The blind allegiance doctirne that defines and regulates neo-conservatism demands they jump in and try to the strengths in numbers routine. They think having no substance or reference to their statements can be replaced with mere numbers agreeing on the same points.

Rally?

So how do you square that with last years pres elections? The "neo-cons" as you call them left the party because they were pissed they forgot that conservatism is the real base of this country and spent and acted like Dems.

Your arrogant self back slapping comments in this post/thread show the close minded mind set you function under

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Ron 10]

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RESULT: This remote election is meaningless and indicates nothing.

RESULT: When your party wins something, you claim it means something.... When your party loses, you claim it means nothing.

Your partisan blinders are funny as hell.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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That's because neo-cons stick together, we just discussd this in some thread. The blind allegiance doctirne that defines and regulates neo-conservatism demands they jump in and try to the strengths in numbers routine. They think having no substance or reference to their statements can be replaced with mere numbers agreeing on the same points.

Whats funny is that your partisan blinders prevent you from seeing Libs doing the exact same thing.... that's just funny.

There are no so blind as those that refuse to see.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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His posts are just undergoing artificial aging, i.e., getting old.

Stop using phrases Lucky doesn't understand.
Poor little guy.

Funny how everybody that doesn't agree with him is "sticking together" as if it were some sort of plot against him. Theres a word for that but I can't think of what it is.
Oh well. Lucky will let us know. After all, he is a contract attorney, economics wizard, aircraft designer above par, and most likely a psychologist and an MD as well!

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[lawrocket 3]

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What point is that, that you and conservatives cheerlead vs libs infight? Of course, even with your skewed party alignment position, when it comes to voting the left is less scattered.

So, what you are saying is that the left doesn't examine issues and vote for whom they think has the stances that they agree with. Rather, they toes the line and vote for whomever has a "-D" next to the name

You're saying that conservatives are the independents and swing voters. If the GOP ain't for them they'll leave it or vote for another candidate. Democrats are lock-step.

I personally think congress oughtta be scared. It's not gonna be a good year for incumbents next year.

Hopefully there will be a GOP Congress and Dem President. It seems to be the only time the federal government ran decently.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Lucky... 0]

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Feel it slipin dont you

Yea, losing 2 governor seats and gaining 1 in SC is a real slip Enjoy the upcoming HC

[Lucky... 0]

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RESULT: This remote election is meaningless and indicates nothing.

RESULT: When your party wins something, you claim it means something.... When your party loses, you claim it means nothing.

Your partisan blinders are funny as hell.

So explain Charlotte.

[Lucky... 0]

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That's because neo-cons stick together, we just discussd this in some thread. The blind allegiance doctirne that defines and regulates neo-conservatism demands they jump in and try to the strengths in numbers routine. They think having no substance or reference to their statements can be replaced with mere numbers agreeing on the same points.

Whats funny is that your partisan blinders prevent you from seeing Libs doing the exact same thing.... that's just funny.

There are no so blind as those that refuse to see.

No, the lft will infight. I can go to a DNC rally and be pro-guns and really not get into a pissing contest, you couldn't go into an RNC rally and oppose gun w/o the music stopping and people treating you like a lepper.

[Lucky... 0]

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Stop using phrases Lucky doesn't understand.
Poor little guy.

Come on kid, trailers, acft structure = same thing . Perhaps teh FAA might disagree. And Mr Pilot, 1 mile out and trying to glide in, can't wait to read about you, too bad you don't > once a year, you could make for good reading.

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Funny how everybody that doesn't agree with him is "sticking together" as if it were some sort of plot against him. Theres a word for that but I can't think of what it is.

Where'e the conspiracy, my party has more representation than we've had since teh 1960's - I think you have the sour grapes.

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Oh well. Lucky will let us know. After all, he is a contract attorney, economics wizard, aircraft designer above par, and most likely a psychologist and an MD as well!

Just because I made you reveal how silly you look as a trailer mechganic trying to pass as an acft structure specialist doesn't mean I think I'm any of those. Now go get a job as a wanna be trailer enginner. Really hard to fuck up designing something with no engine and the aerodynamics of a building. And still you work fast food, no, I don;t want fries with that.

[Lucky... 0]

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So, what you are saying is that the left doesn't examine issues and vote for whom they think has the stances that they agree with. Rather, they toes the line and vote for whomever has a "-D" next to the name

Most people vote along party lines, that's why I laugh when I hear people somehow winning due to more campaign spending. But whne it comes to debate, the conservative thing to do is to not infight, esp in front of the enemy. Typically conservatives are the biggest thinkers anyway, they hear a template for the way it s/b and follow it. Kinda like the diff bewteen christianity and sciecne; science begs you to disprove them, religion dares you to.

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You're saying that conservatives are the independents and swing voters.

You're interprting that - I'm not saying it.

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If the GOP ain't for them they'll leave it or vote for another candidate. Democrats are lock-step.

I think both parties, considering offshoots irrelevant for the most part, are partisan, the left infights and the right is very linear.

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I personally think congress oughtta be scared. It's not gonna be a good year for incumbents next year.

I think several more R senators are coming up than Dems. We still have several months to figure out HC, so I think that will be a boost. I don't think any so-called swing voters will be fooled by the R's attempt to blame the recession on Obama and trying to make them believe that his recovery is anything but ahead of schedule is weak too.

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Hopefully there will be a GOP Congress and Dem President. It seems to be the only time the federal government ran decently.

I see that as politicing in its own right and I guess you're basing that on the Clinton era. What you fail to infuse is that the Dems in congress enacted both tax increases in 1990 and 1993, the gov was basically inept with all teh fighting between 95 and 2001. The seeds were laid for 90's success way before the Jan 95 congressional takeovver.

Other than than era, how do you make your case? When have we had a Dem pres and R congress and had great success?

[lawrocket 3]

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I can go to a DNC rally and be pro-guns and really not get into a pissing contest, you couldn't go into an RNC rally and oppose gun w/o the music stopping and people treating you like a lepper.

I could go to a DNC rally and try to speak in favor of the following and be burned at the stake:
(1) 2002-2006 were actually pretty good economic times. Probably too good.
(2) The federal government should cede significant authority to the individual states;
(3) It's okay for a person to spend her own money how she wants to spend it;
(4) Anti-trust exemptions should be eliminated;
(5) Free speech is more important that sensitivity.
(6) Responsibility for one's actions is merited, and blaming others for one's choices is unacceptable:
(7) "from each according to his means to others according their lack thereof" is operant conditioning that is straining the economy;
(8) Republicans are not evil;
(9) Business owners are not evil;
(10) Etc.


Neither the GOP nor the Dems have a monopoly on hate and intolerance. Neither has a monopoly on inclusiveness.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Ron 10]

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So explain Charlotte.

A Dem won. Not that hard to grasp.

But then again, *I* am not the one that claimed that when the R's lost seats it was a "referendum", but when the D's lose seats it means nothing.... that's just you and you alone.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334