Republicans future unsure

[Lucky... 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091101/ap_on_el_ho/us_ny_special_election_16

"We accept moderates in our party, and we want moderates in our party. We cover a wide range of Americans," said Republican House Leader John Boehner in an interview on CNN's "State of the Union."

Yea, that sounds noce, but it isn't literal. Moderate Republicans are called liberals by the major part of the GOP. I had a guy tell me Lieberman was mostly liberal and they hate Snow now, even tho she is against a public option. The GOP is out of touch and the more ya call em on it, the more resolute they become.

On CBS' Face The Nation, White House senior adviser David Axelrod addressed whether he believes conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh truly represents the direction the GOP is going.

"That's for the Republican Party to decide," Axelrod said. "I think we've seen an interesting development over this weekend in a special election in upstate New York in a congressional district. The Republican candidate withdrew because of the strong third-party movement behind a very right wing conservative. And certainly Mr. Limbaugh and others were behind that. And I think it sends a clear message to moderates within that party that there's no room at the inn for them. That's why you see Republican identification in polls at a historic low."


I think he does, most GOPers seem to embrace him pretty much. I think most GOPers would never introduce the radical ideas of Limbaugh, but once Limbaugh lets them out there, I thinkmost GOPers go along.

[JohnDeere 0]

You should try and gather your own idea's outside of party lines! I normally dont waste my time replying to you but i thought i would let you know your same old BS was old aloooooong time ago. You are now in the same category as Amazon, and Kallend. But go ahead and keep talking to yourself if it make you sound better to yourself!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[Lucky... 0]

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You are now in the same category as Amazon, and Kallend.

Well thank you.

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You should try and gather your own idea's outside of party lines!

Is that your 'country way' of calling me an ideologue? I'm pro-guns big time and against the current affirmative action, so how am I all lefty? Oh, I get it, 'with us or against us.' Talk about tired.

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I normally dont waste my time replying ...

Since you didn't reference the article, you basically didn't reply, so just keep truckin' on by.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yea, that sounds noce, but it isn't literal. Moderate Republicans are called liberals by the major part of the GOP.

And moderate Democrats are called Republican (or Fascist) by leftists in San Francisco. Pelosi is decried by these same people, and she is our Representative.

Each party will always have gradations, and the leadership will shift over time. You'd like to think the GOP party is uncertain, but it's no more uncertain than that of the Democrats after Dukakis got skewered by Bush in 88. From Nixon in 68, that was 5 of 6 losses in a row, with only the forgettable Carter in between.

when inevitable bad times come, the minority party adapts to steal votes from the majority. And the voters will only accept "Bush's fault" for so long. After that, either the Democrats will have to replace its leadership (rare event), or the GOP finds someone like Newt.

[billvon 3,120]

>when inevitable bad times come, the minority party adapts to steal votes
>from the majority.

The original post was an example of how the republicans have not yet figured this out. They went from a moderate candidate almost guaranteed to win to an extremist who calls Glen Beck "his mentor." He's so far right that the moderate candidate dropped out of the race so she could endorse the democratic candidate.

Clearly they don't want to get votes from the middle yet. Hopefully they will figure this out, because a one-party system is not a good situation for the US to be in.

[Lucky... 0]

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And moderate Democrats are called Republican (or Fascist) by leftists in San Francisco. Pelosi is decried by these same people, and she is our Representative.

In SF, I wouldn;t doubt that. I'm talking mainstream, you're talking in 1 city.

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Each party will always have gradations, and the leadership will shift over time.

Sure, but my major point was that the RW is about total followership and allegiance, the left is alot more tolerant. Look at Lieberman, the RW would have kicked him to the curb if the roles were reversed.

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You'd like to think the GOP party is uncertain, but it's no more uncertain than that of the Democrats after Dukakis got skewered by Bush in 88

Yea, they did get 45% this time, even tho congress was hammered. Like as in 1860, there needs to be a 3rd viable option to oust one other and there isn't that right now, so the Repubs will go on.

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From Nixon in 68, that was 5 of 6 losses in a row, with only the forgettable Carter in between.

Wait, 5 of 6 in a row???? OK, when Obama took office, the current and previous 4 of 5 Q's were neg GDP, but not in a row. The "row" starts over when teh opposite is realized. But yes, presidentially teh D's asses were handed to them while they usually had some representation in congress, so it will take longer than 2 elections to declare the R's dead. Even after the R's ran us into the GD memories faded after 5 consec terms of FDR/Truman (Truman wasn't VP all that time).

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when inevitable bad times come, the minority party adapts to steal votes from the majority.

Then explain the 2000 election Bad times, riiiight.

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And the voters will only accept "Bush's fault" for so long. After that, either the Democrats will have to replace its leadership (rare event), or the GOP finds someone like Newt.

Uh Newt? Yea, the dick who was blamed for the 95 gov shutdown? Isn't he a moral nutjob too? Moralists don't do well, even tho most Americans believe in Christ, to their credit they don't want a zealot.

But sure, we need to once again fix teh R's fuckups so teh idiot American electorate can elect anotehr Bush, Reagan or some other mess.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>when inevitable bad times come, the minority party adapts to steal votes
>from the majority.

The original post was an example of how the republicans have not yet figured this out. They went from a moderate candidate almost guaranteed to win to an extremist who calls Glen Beck "his mentor." He's so far right that the moderate candidate dropped out of the race so she could endorse the democratic candidate.

Clearly they don't want to get votes from the middle yet.

Well, last year they were still in charge of the White House and had just lost Congress in 2006, so no, they hadn't figured it out yet. 2008 was phase 1- where the other party beats up on the lead. Jesus would have lost, even if the Democrats were running Satan as their candidate.

it's at least till next year, and more likely 2012, that the voters will stop punishing the GOP for fucking up the last few years. Before that, it almost doesn't matter how intelligent or clueless they act, save that it takes time to form new leadership.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Sure, but my major point was that the RW is about total followership and allegiance, the left is alot more tolerant. Look at Lieberman, the RW would have kicked him to the curb if the roles were reversed.

As the Democrats should have. Yes, the GOP tends to have better party cohesion than the Democrats, though Pelosi has worked for a long time to make that difference less substantial.

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Wait, 5 of 6 in a row???? OK, when Obama took office, the current and previous 4 of 5 Q's were neg GDP, but not in a row.

1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988. Only Nixon's crookedness gave the Democrats the win in 1976.

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Then explain the 2000 election Bad times, riiiight.

This speaks more to the fact that Gore was a loser, who only got to a position to win the nomination based on Clinton picking him as Veep. Before that, he lost badly, and in 2000, despite a pretty cushy lead in, he still couldn't seal the deal. It shouldn't have been so close that a dead heat in Florida decided it.

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Uh Newt? Yea, the dick who was blamed for the 95 gov shutdown? Isn't he a moral nutjob too?

His Contract with America campaign took a Senate that in 1992 threatened to be fillibuster proof for Clinton to one that his party owned. And more significantly, took the House after a extremely long time in Democratic hands. You don't like the guy, but you can't deny the impact he made on Congress.

[Lucky... 0]

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As the Democrats should have. Yes, the GOP tends to have better party cohesion than the Democrats,...

AKA, the moralists put up with the greedy fiscal jerks and vice versa to increase their party size. But as we see, the R's have become embroiled in many sexual, gay and straight escapades, alienting the fundies.

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...though Pelosi has worked for a long time to make that difference less substantial.

Yes, some have and we need to. You can eevn see it present here on DZ.com, JCD and I have similar beliefs, but we infight over small diffs, if we were neo-cons we would ignore small diffs and stay party loyal. SNL did a skit on that a short time ago.

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1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988. Only Nixon's crookedness gave the Democrats the win in 1976.

And only that touchdown gave team X the win. Actually it was Nixon's crookedness and Ford's forgiveness, if Ford has renegged he might have won in 76. Either way, ifs, ifs, ifs, the R's didn't win 5 in a row then, go back to 1860 if you want to find a long string of R victories, of course the R's stood for humanity back then.

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This speaks more to the fact that Gore was a loser, who only got to a position to win the nomination based on Clinton picking him as Veep.

Now you're making exceptions and switching logic pathways. You just said that if all goes well the incumbent party holds power, you've made exceptions for Nixon and now the end of the largest growth period ever.

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Before that, he lost badly, and in 2000, despite a pretty cushy lead in, he still couldn't seal the deal. It shouldn't have been so close that a dead heat in Florida decided it.

Regardless, he lost the EV race and you stated that if all goes well that the incumbent party will hold the WH. Of course did all go well under Reagan. Yea, what a dream, trippled the debt, shifted the welth far to teh rich, what a time.

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His Contract with America campaign took a Senate that in 1992 threatened to be fillibuster proof for Clinton to one that his party owned. And more significantly, took the House after a extremely long time in Democratic hands. You don't like the guy, but you can't deny the impact he made on Congress.

Yea, and left office with disgrace:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt_Gingrich
The momentum of the Republican Revolution stalled in late 1995 and early 1996 during a budget standoff between Congressional Republicans and Democratic President Bill Clinton. Speaker Gingrich and the new Republican majority wanted to slow the rate of government spending. Gingrich allowed previously approved appropriations to expire on schedule, thus allowing parts of the Federal government to shut down for lack of funds. However, Gingrich inflicted a blow to his public image by seeming to suggest that the Republican hard-line stance over the budget was in part due to his feeling "snubbed" by the President during a flight to and from Yitzhak Rabin's funeral in Israel. The subsequent event caused Gingrich to get lampooned by some in the media, with one editorial cartoon depicted him as having thrown a temper tantrum.[12] Democratic leaders took the opportunity to attack Gingrich's motives for the budget standoff, which may have contributed to Clinton's re-election in November 1996.[13][14]

Tom DeLay recounts the event in his book, No Retreat, No Surrender, saying that Gingrich "made the mistake of his life." He goes on to say the following of Gingrich's handling of the shutdown:[15]

"He told a room full of reporters that he forced the shutdown because Clinton had rudely made him and Bob Dole sit at the back of Air Force One...Newt had been careless to say such a thing, and now the whole moral tone of the shutdown had been lost. What had been a noble battle for fiscal sanity began to look like the tirade of a spoiled child..The revolution, I can tell you, was never the same."

In her autobiography Living History, former First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton shows a picture of Bill Clinton, Dole, and Gingrich laughing on the plane. Gingrich commented on this event in his book Lessons Learned the Hard Way, explaining how the picture was taken on the plane going to Yitzhak Rabin's funeral in Israel rather than on the return trip from Israel, contradicting Clinton's claim.


And the tax and congressional sanctions:

Ethics sanctions
On January 21, 1997, the House voted overwhelmingly (395 to 28) to reprimand House Speaker Newt Gingrich for ethics violations dating back to September 1994. The house ordered Gingrich to pay an unprecedented $300,000 penalty, the first time in the House's 208-year history it had disciplined a speaker for ethical wrongdoing.[16]
Eighty-four ethics charges, most of which were leveled by House Democratic Whip David Bonior, were filed against Speaker Gingrich during his term, including claiming tax-exempt status for a college course run for political purposes. Eighty-three of the 84 allegations were dropped.[17] Gingrich denied the charges over misuse of tax-exempt funds; however, he admitted to providing inaccurate statements during the probe over the college course and agreed to pay US$300,000 for the cost of the investigation.[18][19] The House Ethics Committee concluded that inaccurate information supplied to investigators represented "intentional or ... reckless" disregard of House rules.[20] The full committee panel did not reach a conclusion about whether Gingrich had violated federal tax law, instead they opted to leave it up to the IRS.[21]
In 1999, the IRS cleared the organizations connected with the "Renewing American Civilization" courses under investigation for possible tax violations.[22]


And then his fall from grace:

[edit] Leadership challenge
In the summer of 1997, a few House Republicans had come to see Gingrich's public image as a liability and attempted to replace him as Speaker. According to Time, the replacement was engineered by several Republican backbenchers, including Steve Largent of Oklahoma, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Mark Souder of Indiana. They soon gained the support of the four Republicans who ranked directly below Gingrich in the House leadership—Dick Armey, House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, Republican conference chairman John Boehner of Ohio, and Republican leadership chairman Bill Paxon of New York.

On July 9, DeLay, Boehner and Paxon had the first of several secret meetings to discuss the rebellion. The next night, DeLay met with 20 of the plotters in Largent's office, and appeared to assure them that the leadership was with them.

Under the plan, Armey, DeLay, Boehner and Paxon were to present Gingrich with an ultimatum; resign, or be voted out. Combined with the votes of the Democrats, there appeared to be enough votes to vacate the chair. However, the rebels decided that they wanted Paxon to be the new Speaker. At that point, Armey backed out, and told his chief of staff to warn Gingrich about the coup.

In response, Gingrich forced Paxon to resign his post, but backed off initial plans to force a vote of confidence in the rest of the Republican leadership.[23]

[edit] Resignation of the speakership and seat in the House

Gingrich's official portrait as SpeakerBy 1998, Gingrich had become a highly visible and polarizing figure in the public's eye, making him a target for Democratic congressional candidates across the nation. His approval rating was 45% in April 1998.[24]

Republicans lost 5 seats in the House in the 1998 midterm elections — the worst performance in 64 years for a party that didn't hold the presidency. Polls showed that Gingrich and the Republican Party's attempt to remove President Clinton from office was widely unpopular among Americans.[25]

Gingrich suffered much of the blame for the election loss. Facing another rebellion in the Republican caucus, he announced on November 6 that he would not only stand down as Speaker, but would leave the House as well. He had been handily reelected to an 11th term in that election, but declined to take his seat. Commenting on his departure, Gingrich said, "I'm willing to lead but I'm not willing to preside over people who are cannibals. My only fear would be that if I tried to stay, it would just overshadow whoever my successor is."[26]




So the most conservative R's love him, but he's a liability on so many fronts. And still some R's love him......

[rickjump1 0]

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Uh Newt? Yea, the dick who was blamed for the 95 gov shutdown? Isn't he a moral nutjob too?

His Contract with America campaign took a Senate that in 1992 threatened to be fillibuster proof for Clinton to one that his party owned. And more significantly, took the House after a extremely long time in Democratic hands. You don't like the guy, but you can't deny the impact he made on Congress.

[Kennedy 0]

(((wandering quietly through several threads, wondering if Lucky knows he is exactly like the people he pisses and moans about...)))

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Lucky... 0]

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(((wandering quietly through several threads, wondering if Lucky knows he is exactly like the people he pisses and moans about...)))

Well, sorry, we'll post more pictures so you're more able to understand them.

[rickjump1 0]

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(((wandering quietly through several threads, wondering if Lucky knows he is exactly like the people he pisses and moans about...)))

Lucky's just getting a little defensive. Its starting to dawn on him that he and others might have to pay for their own health insurance.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rushmc 23]

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(((wandering quietly through several threads, wondering if Lucky knows he is exactly like the people he pisses and moans about...)))

Lucky's just getting a little defensive. Its starting to dawn on him that he and others might have to pay for their own health insurance.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yes, some have and we need to. You can eevn see it present here on DZ.com, JCD and I have similar beliefs, but we infight over small diffs, if we were neo-cons we would ignore small diffs and stay party loyal.

Yeah, you two post the most boring threads, everyone else feels an urge to kill themselves (or if more sane, you two).

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Either way, ifs, ifs, ifs, the R's didn't win 5 in a row then

Now you're making exceptions and switching logic pathways. You just said that if all goes well the incumbent party holds power

Your inability to read English continues to astound. I said 5 of 6 in a row, and I said that the minority party tends to recover from the majority in bad times. Presuming that to mean the inverse is a common logical fallacy.

Until you can view history without emotion, you're going to continue to make poor analyis. Newt stepped down because his party lost in 1998. It had nothing to do with the ethics claims - if the election had gone well, no one in the party would have cared.

and his actions post 1994 detract in no way from the stunning victory of his party. I'd say rather the opposite, that victory continued the GOP position of strength from the early 80s until 2006. The Democrats had everything for 2 years and failed to make great use of it in 1993.

[jcd11235 0]

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JCD and I have similar beliefs …

I disagree.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Lucky... 0]

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(((wandering quietly through several threads, wondering if Lucky knows he is exactly like the people he pisses and moans about...)))

Lucky's just getting a little defensive. Its starting to dawn on him that he and others might have to pay for their own health insurance.

No, I will have the rich guys pay for it just to piss off the poor Republicans who, for some reason, feel the need to protect the rich so the rich can in turn take a dookie all over them too.

[georgerussia 0]

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I think he does, most GOPers seem to embrace him pretty much. I think most GOPers would never introduce the radical ideas of Limbaugh, but once Limbaugh lets them out there, I thinkmost GOPers go along.

I'd say the worst enemies of Republicans are Republicans.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Lucky... 0]

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Yeah, you two post the most boring threads, everyone else feels an urge to kill themselves

Feel free, but my point stands, libs infight, Repubs suck it up and refuse to look other than 100% united. Hence with us or aganst us.

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Your inability to read English continues to astound. I said 5 of 6 in a row, and I said that the minority party tends to recover from the majority in bad times.

So six elections in a row, the R's won 5 of. That is the most fucking weird way to state 5 of 6 I've ever had the displeasure to read. The "row" drops when something breaks it. Hence Obama inherited a GDP that had 4 of the last 5 Q's negative, not 4 of 5 in a row

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Until you can view history without emotion, you're going to continue to make poor analyis. Newt stepped down because his party lost in 1998. It had nothing to do with the ethics claims - if the election had gone well, no one in the party would have cared.

Riiiiight, right, right. The 300k ethics penalty and being ostercized and made to ride in the back of teh proverbial bus had nothing to do with it. Newt was the John Gotti of the Republican Party; he was done and they were done with him.

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and his actions post 1994 detract in no way from the stunning victory of his party.

And their current hammering.

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I'd say rather the opposite, that victory continued the GOP position of strength from the early 80s until 2006.

HUH? The 80's to 2006, so the period of time where the debt went from

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The Democrats had everything for 2 years and failed to make great use of it in 1993.

What? 2 years, are you talkinmg Jan 93 to Jan 95? Try the Dems owned congress from Jan 87 to Jan 95. In that time there were 2 major tax increases and the deficit started turning; this was the only time the debt/deficit had some relief.

[Lucky... 0]

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JCD and I have similar beliefs …

I disagree.

Look, I don't waer it like a badge either, but it appears that you are somewhere left.

[rickjump1 0]

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(((wandering quietly through several threads, wondering if Lucky knows he is exactly like the people he pisses and moans about...)))

Lucky's just getting a little defensive. Its starting to dawn on him that he and others might have to pay for their own health insurance.

No, I will have the rich guys pay for it just to piss off the poor Republicans who, for some reason, feel the need to protect the rich so the rich can in turn take a dookie all over them too.

Even though you hate the rich, don't bet on getting that free lunch/healthcare ride. Put some cash aside.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[mnealtx 0]

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JCD and I have similar beliefs …

I disagree.

Look, I don't waer it like a badge either, but it appears that you are somewhere left.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!





BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!



Damn...thanks, dude - I haven't laughed that hard in MONTHS.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lucky... 0]

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I think he does, most GOPers seem to embrace him pretty much. I think most GOPers would never introduce the radical ideas of Limbaugh, but once Limbaugh lets them out there, I thinkmost GOPers go along.

I'd say the worst enemies of Republicans are Republicans.

Agreed. Don't tell them tho

[Lucky... 0]

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(((wandering quietly through several threads, wondering if Lucky knows he is exactly like the people he pisses and moans about...)))

Lucky's just getting a little defensive. Its starting to dawn on him that he and others might have to pay for their own health insurance.

No, I will have the rich guys pay for it just to piss off the poor Republicans who, for some reason, feel the need to protect the rich so the rich can in turn take a dookie all over them too.

Even though you hate the rich, don't bet on getting that free lunch/healthcare ride. Put some cash aside.

& come 11; daddy needs a new prostate . I don't hate the rich, I hate any system, Capitlaism, Communism, etc that has such a wide disparity of wealth and so many piss-poor.

[mnealtx 0]

"Most people don't recognize opportunity because it shows up in overalls and looks like work" – Thomas Edison

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706