Part of why the Big Three are where they are.

[Lucky... 0]

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Those clauses are common to just about every major contract between a supplier and a builder. Nothing new.

You roll it off as if you already kew that. (rolls eyes)

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Now why don't you show us evidence that Boeing caused the strike with the specific intent of avoiding late fees?
You can't becaue it is just speculation on your part.

Well, if Boeing ever revealed that they meant to enter a stike via non-cooperation with labor, that would move them out of the, "boyond their control" element and they could be held to pergormance. But then we have guys like you that DEMAND ABSOLUTE PROOF or it couldn't be true. I cited 3 major sources that support thetheiry of THOUSADS OF PEOPLE, of course that won't be enough for you, you need Boeing's CEO to deliver a notarized statement before you're satisfied. I guess if you were on a jury you would ignore the jury instruction of 'beyind a reasonable doubt' and develope one of absolute proof. We convict people of capital crimes everyday using the BARD stabdard, I think Boeing's encouraging of the strike is well known by people in teh industry, AKA not you. If you want to disbelieve what's obvious to insiders and outsiders, ecellent by me.

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Your opinion, regardless of how strong you believe in it, is not evidence of any kind.

You'll rarely get murder defendants to admit their guilt, and you'll rarely get corporations to admit their collusion or ill-business practices. If you want absolute proof in areas that require strong circumstantial evidence then you'll be there alone enjoying your company.

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I could say that a ball player getting hit by a pitch twice in one game is intentional, but that is only speculating the same way you are.

Perfect, thank you. And then we look at OTHER CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE like the notion there was a beef between the 2 teams, the hit player's pitcher hit the other teams big hitter, someone stood and watched a homerun leave the park in disrespect.....AND NOW WE CAN MORE EASILY CONCLUDE IF THERE WAS A MOTIVE. Thank you for spelling it out for yourself. As with Boeing, if there was no lateness involved with the 787 or other reasons for Boeing to benefit from a long strike, we could conclude that whatever labor issues Boeing had with the Machinists Union were stand alone.

Again, you want a declaratory statement from Boeing or you won't believe it, a standard that is impossible, and you want to ignore the usual standard of preponderance in this case, so your logic prohibits you from believing what thousands agree is the truth - enjoy.

[Lucky... 0]

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Well, you are wrong. Blue collar workers here are not stupid compared to any other part of the world. Most I know are average or above average intelligence.

Again, the diddy rule? Nothing scientific? WHat makes American blue collars more intelligent than European blue collars? In WE they get between 4 and 9 weeks vacation per year - fed law. In WE their workweek is sometimes 35 hrs per week. They get gov paid medical and if tehy strike, they almost always win. Yea, they're stupid

Funny - we seem not to have the same issues with labor riots and massive unemployment of the young - on vacation and broke between the ages of 18 and 27. All the doctors in France go on vacation at the same time and thousands die during a heat wave.

So Sarkozy gets elected on the promise of goodbye gravy train.

You've actually got a Nazi Party in England, dude. These parties form BECAUSE of how screwed people feel.

There is nothing you have written to show me that you are out to help anybody. Rather, you are out to screw certain others. Perhaps some form of self-examination as to why you feel the need to refer to people as stupid is needed.

This is uncharacteristically scattered, show refs and make sense of it.

As for me helping others, I, personally want to help myself, but I want rules so most/all will benefit. I'm not claiming to be mother Theresa, as it sounds as if you think I have that self-impression, I want to compel the US to do that.

Of course you take any effort to better the masses as an attack, that's how you and other rich folks justify your position of greed. What's refreshing is when some rich people find the ability to support a position of a reasonable baseline of care. Rare at times, but refreshing.

I only called the class, from which I reside, as stupid when they promote policies that grossly help the rich, hence hurt themselves. It would be like Roman era Christians throwing themselves to the lions.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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You roll it off as if you already kew that.

Actually, I did. I have worked on many such contracts. Like I said, nothing new.

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But then we have guys like you that DEMAND ABSOLUTE PROOF or it couldn't be true. I cited 3 major sources that support thetheiry of THOUSADS OF PEOPLE, of course that won't be enough for you, you need Boeing's CEO to deliver a notarized statement before you're satisfied.

While a notorized statement would be nice it is not needed. All I ask for is evidence beyond what you think happened, something more than just your gut feeling.

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You'll rarely get murder defendants to admit their guilt, and you'll rarely get corporations to admit their collusion or ill-business practices

Correct. But by the same token a person can not be convicted of any crime when the only evidence presented is some guy saying "I think he did it", which is exactly what you are trying to get us to except as proof of wrongdoing by Boeing.

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OTHER CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE

Circumstantial evidence and motive. Perfect. This is not the first time the Machinist Union has gone on strike. To use your circumstatial evidence and supposed motive you would have to show that this was a trend by Boeing, i.e. encouraging a strike.
Like I said, all you have is your biased opinion and nothing more.

I hope you don't fly. If you do, the next time your get inside an airliner i want you to think about something. I want you to think about how that aircraft was built by stupid blue collar workers.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Lucky... 0]

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Actually, I did. I have worked on many such contracts. Like I said, nothing new.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, somehow a guy, when stuck posts , I don't believe you are a contract specialist. You could have called out that kind of contract clause beforehand and discounted it if you knew and understood. And anyone who really understands corporate contracts would also be aware of the deceptive strategies they often use to avoid performance or demand performance.

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While a notorized statement would be nice it is not needed. All I ask for is evidence beyond what you think happened, something more than just your gut feeling.

I post 1 citation of a typical Boeing contract and posted 2 independent citations as to how these sources feel this is what Boeing is doing. WHat you want is that notarized confession, which doesn't exist. Reasonableness would dictate it's easily a preponderance that Boeing is effecting a strike by being combative/neglectful with the union so they strike, so the delay can be considered beyond their control and all late fees absolved.

Here we go: http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2008/09/04/boeing-should-let-the-union-walk.aspx

There's a phrase for that
If Boeing has a "force majeure" clause in its contract, a legal concept present in most well-drafted sales contracts, that could excuse its failure to perform (say, by not delivering planes when it promised to) because of events outside its control (say, a strike).

Recent financial history is replete with examples of companies using force majeure to gain wiggle room on their contractual obligations. ExxonMobil (NYSE: XOM) invoked its clause in response to strikes in Nigeria in April. Bunge (NYSE: BG) used this excuse when agriculture workers struck in Argentina in March. Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan (NYSE: POT) cited strikes at three Canadian mines in raising the possibility just last month.

By standing pat and allowing a strike to go forward, Boeing could conceivably save itself millions in "late fees" it would otherwise owe to its customers -- perhaps even save enough to offset the profits lost because of a work stoppage. Meanwhile, as Boeing machinists sit idle and watch their bank accounts dwindle, Boeing's subcontractors -- who by all accounts are the primary reason for production delays at the 787 project -- could continue working out the kinks in Boeing's supply chain.



And this: http://www.twobirds.com/English/NEWS/ARTICLES/Pages/Boeing_announcement_delays_production_787.Aspx

For strategic reasons Boeing has emphasised the detrimental consequences of the machinist strike and that a significant part of the announced delays in the delivery of the said aircraft is attributable to the strike. Since a strike is normally considered as a force majeure event under the aircraft purchase agreements concerned, it will therefore constitute an excusable delay.

And finally, an actual contract: http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/doingbiz/idscommon/ccr/s/ssm_sz_4200_01_20061103.pdf

2. Events of Force Majeure:
(a) General or partial events of readiness and war;
(b) Earthquake, flood or other natural physical disaster;
(c) Riots, revolutions or sabotage or civil commotion;
(d) US and Turkish labor strikes affecting the performance of the contractual obligations;
(e) Acts or omissions of any government in its sovereign capacity, [such acts or omissions shall mean the exercise of (government and parliament) of the executive and legislative power; however, if such acts or omissions occur as a result of the instigation of the Seller and/or its subcontractors they shall not be considered as Force Majeure];

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Correct. But by the same token a person can not be convicted of any crime when the only evidence presented is some guy saying "I think he did it", which is exactly what you are trying to get us to except as proof of wrongdoing by Boeing.

Well, some murder trials have less that and they end up with convictions. As for wrongdoing, it's not considered wrongdoing for Boeing to refuse to negotiate with teh Machinists Union, that's where I think you're lost. It's a mere contract strategy, not a crime and not even a tort.

Most importantly, using a criminal standard, we must look at opportunity and motive; Boeing had major doses of both. Boeing had a major motive to let the labor situation go to strike in regard to the 787 lateness, it was written about all over the place in objective and credible articles. I think some buyers even cancelled their contracts because of this.

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Circumstantial evidence and motive. Perfect. This is not the first time the Machinist Union has gone on strike. To use your circumstatial evidence and supposed motive you would have to show that this was a trend by Boeing, i.e. encouraging a strike.

Riiiiight, my opinion and that of several reliable, objective publications. Look, it's a typical contract strategy. You cat as if it was something sinister, it's fascist American corporate business politics as usual.

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I hope you don't fly. If you do, the next time your get inside an airliner i want you to think about something. I want you to think about how that aircraft was built by stupid blue collar workers.

You mean like me? You haven't been following along, have you? I've worked for Boeing, Douglas, Rockwell and sooo many others for years, I know how they're built and by whom. Just because a guy can drive a rivet doesn't mean he's smart enough to understand contracts or know when he's being fucked as compared to other nations. The US us a great example of that. I bet if a national bill was introduced to require employers to give us 30 days vacation per year, no exceptions, the fascist lobbyists would scare the working stiffs into believing that businesses would lay everyone off if that happened and it would be voted down - that's my definition of stupid, as they don't understand that businesses in W.E. operate under that and still make a profit.

[Lucky... 0]

Here's another perspective: http://soundpolitics.com/archives/013472.html


Boeing Gone; Who's to Blame?
Remember a couple of years ago, when a bunch of us ridiculed the notion that Forbes named Washington State in the top five best states for business?

Some of their criteria was laughable, and their analysis moreso. We knew what most businesses knew: that on the most important points to businesses (business costs and quality of life), Washington State failed. And on other factors like "regulatory climate" and "outlook" we incredibly scored well: to the former, Washington scored highly because we employ people to help guide businesses through the regulatory morass; but that doesn't diminish the fact that there are massive regulatory roadblocks in the first place; to the latter, well, our "outlook" -- which includes ever-increasing spending, even in the face of a recession -- is the reason why we're facing significant tax increases, if Gregoire and the Democrats get their way.


So what it's saying is that we have to bend over and let corporations have their way over labor, EPA and any other aspect they want or they'll threaten to leave. A lot of acft corps have left Long Beach and come to Williams AFB in Mesa, AZ because we hang the Swastika high, just as Carolina does. All you have to do is say fuck the EPA,fuck taxes and fuck labor and you'll have the corporations running for you. A strict definition of Corporatism, a perfect breeding ground for fascism.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Well, at least we are making headway. You have pretty much acknowledged that you are just putting forth opinion of yourself and others.
That's all well and good. We all have our opinions. But just becaue someone else shares yours doesn't make it fact.
You think Boeing forced the strikes intentionally, I don't.

You know what they say: Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one and they all stink.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Lucky... 0]

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Well, at least we are making headway. You have pretty much acknowledged that you are just putting forth opinion of yourself and others.
That's all well and good. We all have our opinions. But just becaue someone else shares yours doesn't make it fact.
You think Boeing forced the strikes intentionally, I don't.

You know what they say: Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one and they all stink.

I'm sorry you are unable to read, these are the independent sources I have:

Here we go: http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2008/09/04/boeing-should-let-the-union-walk.aspx

There's a phrase for that
If Boeing has a "force majeure" clause in its contract, a legal concept present in most well-drafted sales contracts, that could excuse its failure to perform (say, by not delivering planes when it promised to) because of events outside its control (say, a strike).

Recent financial history is replete with examples of companies using force majeure to gain wiggle room on their contractual obligations. ExxonMobil (NYSE: XOM) invoked its clause in response to strikes in Nigeria in April. Bunge (NYSE: BG) used this excuse when agriculture workers struck in Argentina in March. Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan (NYSE: POT) cited strikes at three Canadian mines in raising the possibility just last month.

By standing pat and allowing a strike to go forward, Boeing could conceivably save itself millions in "late fees" it would otherwise owe to its customers -- perhaps even save enough to offset the profits lost because of a work stoppage. Meanwhile, as Boeing machinists sit idle and watch their bank accounts dwindle, Boeing's subcontractors -- who by all accounts are the primary reason for production delays at the 787 project -- could continue working out the kinks in Boeing's supply chain.



And this: http://www.twobirds.com/English/NEWS/ARTICLES/Pages/Boeing_announcement_delays_production_787.Aspx

For strategic reasons Boeing has emphasised the detrimental consequences of the machinist strike and that a significant part of the announced delays in the delivery of the said aircraft is attributable to the strike. Since a strike is normally considered as a force majeure event under the aircraft purchase agreements concerned, it will therefore constitute an excusable delay.

And finally, an actual contract: http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/doingbiz/idscommon/ccr/s/ssm_sz_4200_01_20061103.pdf

2. Events of Force Majeure:
(a) General or partial events of readiness and war;
(b) Earthquake, flood or other natural physical disaster;
(c) Riots, revolutions or sabotage or civil commotion;
(d) US and Turkish labor strikes affecting the performance of the contractual obligations;
(e) Acts or omissions of any government in its sovereign capacity, [such acts or omissions shall mean the exercise of (government and parliament) of the executive and legislative power; however, if such acts or omissions occur as a result of the instigation of the Seller and/or its subcontractors they shall not be considered as Force Majeure];

[Belgian_Draft 0]

No matter how many times you post the same thing, it is still opinion. You do know what opinion is, don't you?

And I am not a contract specialist. Could you please show where I made that claim?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Lucky... 0]

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And I am not a contract specialist. Could you please show where I made that claim?

Actually, I did. I have worked on many such contracts. Like I said, nothing new.


So go ahead and split the hair between, "I have worked on many such contracts" and being a specialist.

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No matter how many times you post the same thing, it is still opinion. You do know what opinion is, don't you?

That's right it is, it's the opinion of thousands of people and many independent publications, probably customers too, who were screwed by the delay tactic and cancelled orders.

As for other opinion, juries are opinions, appellate judges draw opinions from events as measured thru state and federal constitutions. Of course they are just opinions becuase nothing is definite. The motive was there, the Machinist Union even gave Boeing a no-strike claus and Boeing is still moving to Carolina, at least in part. So Boeing wasn't trying to leverage the union into anything, they were focused on the prize that was application of teh clause and relief of late payments.

Again, when guys like you decide you want to believe a certain thing, independent opinion matters not, you want a certified letter from Boeing, which doesn't exist. I have the same issue when I make the claim that innocent people have been executed by the US. The most obvious peice of evidence is that even since Gregg V Georgia in 1976, reinstatement of the DP, we have executed 100-1220ish people and various groups have the numbers 25ish of innocent people executed. Anyway, these people, like you, want a piece of paper that certifies they were innocent and executed. The US just doesn't do that, they might issue a postumous pardon, but never admit they executed someone by error.

So do what you have to, but it would make sense if you read and critiqued the articles Iposted. You won't.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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And I am not a contract specialist. Could you please show where I made that claim?

Actually, I did. I have worked on many such contracts. Like I said, nothing new.


So go ahead and split the hair between, "I have worked on many such contracts" and being a specialist.

Dude, there is a HUGE difference between working on contracts and being a contract specialist. It's a bit more than just splitting hairs.

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No matter how many times you post the same thing, it is still opinion. You do know what opinion is, don't you?

That's right it is, it's the opinion of thousands of people and many independent publications, probably customers too, who were screwed by the delay tactic and cancelled orders.

And there are thousands of people who share the opinion that Boeing did not purposely push the union towards a strike. You saying they did does not make it so. Such is life, get used to it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Lucky... 0]

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Dude, there is a HUGE difference between working on contracts and being a contract specialist. It's a bit more than just splitting hairs.

Thx for validating my prognostication that you would say that after saying you had worked contracts before.

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And there are thousands of people who share the opinion that Boeing did not purposely push the union towards a strike. You saying they did does not make it so. Such is life, get used to it.

As if you know, you're guessing. You didn't know the Boeing strike, much or anything about the 787, or the contract term I taught you. You just threw it out there as if you know/knew: Oh yea, uh, er, thousands think the strike had nothing to do with the 787 delay tactic, er......

Face it, you know as much about aviation as I know of your career that you refuse to disclose. It's 'common knowledge' that Boeing used a simple strategy to avoid paying late fees by not working with the labor unions and forcing a strike. Then after sufficient time, 50 some odd days, Boeing agreed to a contract that benefitted them mostly, as they got their no strike clause. The union thought that would keep the 787 there, but soon after Boeing announced they would move it to Carolina, at least partially.

So for a self-titled contract non-specialist, you sure don't understand anything about contract strategy. Yea, all those aviation publications are wrong and the 1000's of ghosts that you refer to are right. BTW, post some substance about the strike not being about the 787 delivery delay strategy. I've supported my opinion with 3 relevant cites, where's yours?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

You don't think there is a big difference between being a contract specialist and working on a contract?
Let me educate you a bit.
I have worked on contracts. My input was solicited as to what work could realistically be done in a given time frame. I worked up a schedule and submitted it.
A contract specialist, on the other hand, is someone who does nothing but contracts.
See the difference? One person gives input from time to time, the other does the work all the time.

Sure I'm guessing. So are you. But you made the claim that Boeing wanted the strike to avoid paying late penalties. Thus far all you have offered up as evidence is opinion and conjecture. And, YES, i want to see a "smoking gun". Any document from Boeing specifically detailing the plan would be sufficient.

I don't have to post any references. The only claim I made is that it is my opinion that Boeing did not want the strike.

You are the one who has made a claim that needs backed up.

BTW, I am a certificated pilot. Private pilot, single engine, land, VFR. Not an aviation expert by any means, but I am familiar with flying things. Are you? A little test to see, ok? OK!
What is the significance of 20 degrees?
What effect does direction of engine rotation have on takeoff handling?
If you are on short final on a normal approach and your engine quits, which do you do first a) announce MAYDAY on your radio or b) attempt to restart the engine.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[grimmie 186]

I love Speakers Corner, a place where a post about Ford UAW workers turns into a private pilot test and check ride!

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I love Speakers Corner, a place where a post about Ford UAW workers turns into a private pilot test and check ride!

Ain't life grand. And we made the transition without mentioning guns, Clinton/Bush/Obama, or religion!

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Lucky... 0]

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I love Speakers Corner, a place where a post about Ford UAW workers turns into a private pilot test and check ride!

Actually it was a union thread, we're discussing how Boeing instigated the labor strike to enact the clause that allowed them to avoid late fees - not really a tangent at all.

Now, let's get back to talking about whether Kraft Mac and cheese is better than generic

[Belgian_Draft 0]

How's the check ride going? Need any help googling the answers?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Lucky... 0]

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You don't think there is a big difference between being a contract specialist and working on a contract?
Let me educate you a bit.
I have worked on contracts. My input was solicited as to what work could realistically be done in a given time frame. I worked up a schedule and submitted it.
A contract specialist, on the other hand, is someone who does nothing but contracts.
See the difference? One person gives input from time to time, the other does the work all the time.

Uh huh. This is really an irrellevant point, but was asserted this way:

You submitted the strike wasn't based upon Boeing wanting relief from 787 delays.

I submitted it was and posted 3 docs supporting that and introduced the trem, "force majeure."

You stated: Those clauses are common to just about every major contract between a supplier and a builder. Nothing new.

and

Actually, I did. I have worked on many such contracts. Like I said, nothing new.

I replied: I don't believe you are a contract specialist. You could have called out that kind of contract clause beforehand and discounted it if you knew and understood. And anyone who really understands corporate contracts would also be aware of the deceptive strategies they often use to avoid performance or demand performance.
_____________________________________

So, as I thought, you would try to dissect the line between working contracts and contract specialist to make the case that you knew what a "force majeure" was, but not so much as to give explanation as to why you didn't propose the term before I did. We all see it, it's new to you, you tried to play off like "I knew that," we know you didn't and are winging it. It's an irrelevant part of the issue anyway, so if you feel the need to to get the last denial in, go ahead. While you're at it, tell us your occupation.

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Sure I'm guessing. So are you.

You're posturing because you don't want it to be true; I'm reading the circumstances and making the same conclusion that many others are, including many publications.

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But you made the claim that Boeing wanted the strike to avoid paying late penalties. Thus far all you have offered up as evidence is opinion and conjecture.

Supported with publications and contract law, even a typical Boeing contract. There is no absolute evidence available unless you are privvy to Boeing executive boardrooms.

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And, YES, i want to see a "smoking gun". Any document from Boeing specifically detailing the plan would be sufficient.

That won't exist, as that could cost them 100's of millions or billions and the executive who typed that would be fired. It's likely known with the boys club at the top of Boeing, short of that, you have to draw conclusions about management's actions. Kind of like the murderer who's on trial, you might not get him to own-up to the killing, so you have to use sometimes exclusively circumstantial data and evidence to tie him to the murder. I'm sure you say that's fine, but then you want to take a contract situation and apply a higher standard to it that this country does with criminal matters; we call this a futile argument, one where a person is using abstract logic. Now you could take the publications I posted and make some comments on those, but somehow I doubt you read them, even tho I posted some of teh text from them.

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BTW, I am a certificated pilot. Private pilot, single engine, land, VFR. Not an aviation expert by any means, but I am familiar with flying things. Are you? A little test to see, ok? OK!

Can you post something a little more challenging?

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What is the significance of 20 degrees?

W/o researching I would say carb ice between 20 and 70-80ish as I recall. I was licensed in 83, so it's been a while. But if I'm flying a carb'd acft I pull the carb heat with the throttle regardless. I was licenced in Guam, so we didn't have that issue either. But you still constantly watch for the power loss/rpm drop.

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What effect does direction of engine rotation have on takeoff handling?

P-factor. I think Mooneys and some other acft have the engine mounts fabbed so the engine actually has a couple degrees of turn. High end twin acft like Beech have counter-rotatating, the unusual rotation is real expensive and rare to find parts for. I'm an AP/IA/PP. This is rudamentary.

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If you are on short final on a normal approach and your engine quits, which do you do first a) announce MAYDAY on your radio or b) attempt to restart the engine.

First you throw out your skydiviers, , then since you are short final, you might want to set up for the crash/ditching/landing. Actually I would simulataneously ensure I have enough altitude to make the field and check my fuel selector, other than that you're a glider. If you're short final the assumption is you're near an airfield, so your crash will be obvuous to all and help rendered soon anyway. But as with skydiving, altitude is time/life, so that is your #1 concern.

So my answer is: neither, but I would check the fuel selctor, fuel primer to see if it walked out, they say that can cause fuel blockage - never seen it.

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You are the one who has made a claim that needs backed up.

I've backed it up and you haven't even addressed it. The world you're trying to claim exists for us is one that demands absolute proof or you're right. The Ray Krone case is one that only had for evidence bite impressions of the deceased woman's breast and his teeth impressions. He was convicted twice BY THE STANDARD WE HAVE FOR THE HIGHEST CRIMES and you want to make a lesser issue, a contract issue a FAR HIGHER standard. Arguing with anyone who uses that standard of logic is futile and you know it, since you don't have an answer for my 3 posted sources of evidence, you defer to wanting 100% pure evidence. Welcome to earth - enjoy your stay.

[Lucky... 0]

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How's the check ride going? Need any help googling the answers?

Hey, son, I am aviation. I wish I wasn't, but I am. Those 3rd grade questions are so elementary I was yawning as I was typing. Tell me this: What is the technique of swelling and drawing while riveting acft structure? Only way you get it is if someone pipes in in PM. Google won't even help you I don't think.

[champu 1]

People post things on the internet all the time. It makes arguments from authority all too common because I can google virtually any viewpoint and find an article that supports it. Something I'd recommend to you in the future, however, is finding an article that supports your viewpoint that doesn't have comments like this attached to it...

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Being pro-union and anti-big corporate pigs, I'll be the first to say that a strike doesn't benefit any one...

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This article is seriously flawed. As a member of the IAM union and an employee of the Boeing Company, I can say that the author is speaking from a position of ignorance...

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Obviously the author has never negotiated a contract with a union...

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The standard force majeure clause only gets you out of liability to the extent that the issues are beyond your reasonable control. This probably does include a strike, but strike would not be the reason that the planes are 15 months late. The clause might get Boeing out of penalty payments relating to the duration of the strike, but they do not wipe the slate clean for what has gone before...

[Lucky... 0]

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People post things on the internet all the time. It makes arguments from authority all too common because I can google virtually any viewpoint and find an article that supports it. Something I'd recommend to you in the future, however, is finding an article that supports your viewpoint that doesn't have comments like this attached to it...

---> Being pro-union and anti-big corporate pigs, I'll be the first to say that a strike doesn't benefit any one...

----> This article is seriously flawed. As a member of the IAM union and an employee of the Boeing Company, I can say that the author is speaking from a position of ignorance...

----> Obviously the author has never negotiated a contract with a union...

And I suggest you be more honest and not make reference to editorial comments written by anyone. The Motley Fool is an objective finance magazine, not a pro-union rag. I can't believe you even raised that non-issue. I read the articel, not comments, they mean nothing to me. Hell, you could add that and make note of it, but it isn't the autor's position. Very desperate on your part. Anymore, virtually every internet publication has a comment section, but that doesn't affect the author's message. I wonder why you didn't attack the author's message? Hmmm, 'cause it's true and valid?

So go impeach the article, not the comments, you could add those, not saying you did, but the comments are annonymous editorial.

[champu 1]

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So go impeach the article, not the comments, you could add those, not saying you did, but the comments are annonymous editorial.

The comments themselves impeach the article, particularly the comment you removed from the quote block above. And seeing as the author isn't mentioned anywhere on the website's staff page this guy could be anybody. The article is arguably just as anonymous as the comments it received. So what made you decide to read the article and not the comments?

That aside...

I'm highly skeptical of Boeing's ability to convince its customers' lawyers and, if necessary, judges presiding over the resultant civil suits that an 8 week strike is responsible for a 15 month delay. Sure they may try to use the strike to limit their liability as much as possible, but that's completely different from intentionally inciting the strike so as to provide themselves with a silver bullet against their mismanagement. That plan doesn't pan out and thus neither does the conspiracy theory.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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How's the check ride going? Need any help googling the answers?

Hey, son, I am aviation. I wish I wasn't, but I am. Those 3rd grade questions are so elementary I was yawning as I was typing. Tell me this: What is the technique of swelling and drawing while riveting acft structure? Only way you get it is if someone pipes in in PM. Google won't even help you I don't think.

So why did you miss two out of three?

20 degrees is the normal bank angle for a standard rate turn, but it can vary according to airspeed. Anybody who has taken an introductory flight knows that.

On short final the proper action to take if your engine fails is to just keep flying the aircraft. You are within a few seconds of touching down and chances of finding the problem and restarting are very small. Since on short final airspeed is very near stall speed the last thing you want to be doing is fidgeting around the cockpit when any small error is magnified and could easily result in a new hole in the ground.

But you did ok on the P-factor, but then that is one that can easily be found with google. Even though p-factor is only one phenomenon that is affected by direction of rotation I felt sorry for you and gave you full credit for the question.

Final grade: 33%
If you are any kind of pilot you would do well to take a couple days to review the basics. It shouldn't take long. After all, it's all pretty elementary.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Ok, tyhis is getting pretty boring. You think opinion is proof and nobody can convince you otherwise. Well, you're wrong. Opinion is not proof. Can't be any more plain than that but I will be surprised if you can comprehend it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[StreetScooby 5]

You seem to focus alot of time on how you think America should be. What are you doing about Mugabe?

We are all engines of karma

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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What is the technique of swelling and drawing while riveting acft structure

Blind riveting.

My turn.

In what way is dry ice used in the assembly of aircraft, what can be the result if procedure is not followed, and why. Details please.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.