kelpdiver 2 #51 October 29, 2009 Quote Since we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. probably best to forget about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Nevermind your continued silliness with the Dow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #52 October 29, 2009 Quote Quote Since we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. probably best to forget about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Nevermind your continued silliness with the Dow. You mean those days count?? I thought from today we now have a raging bull market?! Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #53 October 29, 2009 QuoteQuote Since we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. probably best to forget about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Nevermind your continued silliness with the Dow. And that's what I say, but Rstanley0312, in his desparation to show Obama a failure, brought in how the market had dropped over the last couple days, so the silliness is his for thinking that, yours for not reading teh thread and figuring that out. And ta Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #54 October 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Since we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. probably best to forget about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Nevermind your continued silliness with the Dow. You mean those days count?? I thought from today we now have a raging bull market?! And you didn't write: The market is oversold right now and will correct.... it's trending down again today and if you look at the charts or the technicals this does not look like it will hold at all. Are you not able to keep track of your own BS from a day or 2 ago? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #55 October 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Since we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. probably best to forget about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Nevermind your continued silliness with the Dow. You mean those days count?? I thought from today we now have a raging bull market?! And you didn't write: The market is oversold right now and will correct.... it's trending down again today and if you look at the charts or the technicals this does not look like it will hold at all. Are you not able to keep track of your own BS from a day or 2 ago? I'm not sure if it's an issue with reading or lack of understanding. I was not refering to a single day.... I look at it as a whole. "Day tracking" does nothing but chase the market which almost always results in loss of money. I am the one refering to the market aas a whole and what the forcast is again you bring up Obama and I have yet to attack him (broken record) you do not know what you are talking about. Since you like to bring up random articles som much here is one from a credible source and its even CNN affilitaed for you. http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/29/news/economy/recovery_recession.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009102911Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #56 October 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Since we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. probably best to forget about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Nevermind your continued silliness with the Dow. You mean those days count?? I thought from today we now have a raging bull market?! And you didn't write: The market is oversold right now and will correct.... it's trending down again today and if you look at the charts or the technicals this does not look like it will hold at all. Are you not able to keep track of your own BS from a day or 2 ago? the "trending down today" was just stating a fact I was not saying its all crashing down now but if you knew anything about the market you would know a swing like that then the one today shows anything but strength.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #57 October 29, 2009 Quote so the silliness is his for thinking that, yours for not reading teh thread and figuring that out. Since you contradict yourself within single posts in this thread, no one can figure out what you mean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #58 October 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Since we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. probably best to forget about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Nevermind your continued silliness with the Dow. You mean those days count?? I thought from today we now have a raging bull market?! And you didn't write: The market is oversold right now and will correct.... it's trending down again today and if you look at the charts or the technicals this does not look like it will hold at all. Are you not able to keep track of your own BS from a day or 2 ago? the "trending down today" was just stating a fact I was not saying its all crashing down now but if you knew anything about the market you would know a swing like that then the one today shows anything but strength. 100-point fluctutions mean nothign anymore; get out of the 70's / 80's. Pls don't tell me you don't advise people on stock purchases if you think 100-point days either way are anything but simple profit-taking and reinvesting. You think the market will fall and sit, that you've made clear. It could slip to 8k, I don't see it, but it could, but over the next year or 2 it will incline at a modest rate, it has lalready rebounded nicely making an assertion of investor confidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #59 October 29, 2009 QuoteQuote so the silliness is his for thinking that, yours for not reading teh thread and figuring that out. Since you contradict yourself within single posts in this thread, no one can figure out what you mean. I do understand how binary thinkers can see this as contradiction, as either the economy is 100% perfect or 100% totally fucked. I've clearly stated in teh OP and reposted that until unemp gets under control, we are not out of the woods. And the, "but...." would lead intelligent people to want to read more into, "It's official; recession is over,..." The statement, "It's official; recession is over, but...." clearly means: The recession might be over by official terms, but there is still more to do. Again, I understand the sickness of conservative-thinking and that thinking dissallows for any reasoning, just literal reading so it's expected that you don't get it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #60 October 29, 2009 So, remind us please, what was the point of your original post/starting this thread?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #61 October 29, 2009 QuoteSo, remind us please, what was the point of your original post/starting this thread? To say that some early indicators are looking great, but there is still work to do. OF course the underlying theme is Obama is doing a great job early, hope it lasts and builds. The underlying theme from Obama-haters is that they are skeptical of the success, as that would give Obama too much credit and we can't have that even if it means hoping the country takes a shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #62 October 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Since we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. probably best to forget about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Nevermind your continued silliness with the Dow. You mean those days count?? I thought from today we now have a raging bull market?! And you didn't write: The market is oversold right now and will correct.... it's trending down again today and if you look at the charts or the technicals this does not look like it will hold at all. Are you not able to keep track of your own BS from a day or 2 ago? the "trending down today" was just stating a fact I was not saying its all crashing down now but if you knew anything about the market you would know a swing like that then the one today shows anything but strength. 100-point fluctutions mean nothign anymore; get out of the 70's / 80's. Pls don't tell me you don't advise people on stock purchases if you think 100-point days either way are anything but simple profit-taking and reinvesting. You think the market will fall and sit, that you've made clear. It could slip to 8k, I don't see it, but it could, but over the next year or 2 it will incline at a modest rate, it has lalready rebounded nicely making an assertion of investor confidence. Once again you are trying to act like you know what you are talking about. Somehow you are now making assumptions as to what I do or do not tell investors that work with us...... where are you even fabricating this crap from. Did you bother to read the articel I posted? Probably not once again. I would say you are the one in the fairy tale world not the republican supporters...... once again that is not me and once again this has nothing to do with Obama just the state of the ecomomy and where it is headed. So I have a question for you.... if we all of the sudden slip and have three consecutive quarters of loss on the GDP are e starting a new recession? Was this quarter just a fluke and the old one was never really over? The problem with the rules you are applying to state the recession is over is that they are the same rules that declared an official recession many months after it actually started. I don't think anyone thinks you know what you are talking about and I personally feel you are just hitting us with factless rhetoric. I am still laughing though :)Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #63 October 29, 2009 Quote 100-point fluctutions mean nothign anymore; get out of the 70's / 80's. Pls don't tell me you don't advise people on stock purchases if you think 100-point days either way are anything but simple profit-taking and reinvesting. Yet you wrote: QuoteSince we'e all about watching the market on a daily basis rather than over the longrun, Look at the market right now: DJIA +155.98 and climbing; must be over all that fear as the GDP data is released. Make up your mind already. Or in the spirit of your loose PAs and inconsistent statements: I know you have no clue what you're talking about, but maybe a clock is right twice a day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #64 October 29, 2009 At our house the recession is definitely NOT over. My hubby is working every other week 424 miles away from here, for 40 % of his pay, at a company whose sales are way down, because the dealers who usually buy from them can't get financing from the bailed out banks. And of course large ag machinery doesn't fall into either the "first time homebuyers" or "cash for clunkers" programs. I work for very wealthy people doing their landscaping, and even they are cutting back to try to stay afloat. (Although, cutting 100% of what they pay me will not save them THAT much) My son hasn't worked since July, and is living under our roof til things improve. Been a long year, and the winter is gonna be longer.skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #65 October 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteSo, remind us please, what was the point of your original post/starting this thread? To say that some early indicators are looking great, but there is still work to do. OF course the underlying theme is Obama is doing a great job early, hope it lasts and builds. The underlying theme from Obama-haters is that they are skeptical of the success, as that would give Obama too much credit and we can't have that even if it means hoping the country takes a shit. So then you are now saying, in opposition to the thread title that you wrote, that we are still in a recession. Well, at least we agree on something.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #66 October 30, 2009 My deares Nazy, you need to explain your idea of home goat hill. If you don't know certain expressions of the US then don't be a pretencious language Nazi, following your instictive upbringing just because you don't understand them. There has been many instances where people explain to you sayings you have no idea of, and you still want to bring this up, over and over, even when people are making jokes, lighten up, and don't be such a skewed and racist language nazi (ie:as people often write they're as there) Now back to your roots...."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #67 October 30, 2009 Quote That's right! As long as Obama keeps spending, we'll keep doing GRRRRRRRRREAT!!! and the dow is giving up everything today that it gained yesterday. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #68 October 30, 2009 Quote Quote That's right! As long as Obama keeps spending, we'll keep doing GRRRRRRRRREAT!!! and the dow is giving up everything today that it gained yesterday. The funny thing here is that you, some kind of alleged stock dealer in some respect, if even in your own mind, were the first to call the market dropping and giving some of its gain back as I statedthe market was over 10k, spilled a couple hundred, but that it was looking good. Any real stockbroker knows you look at the market as an average over a chunk of time. Freefall as Obama was enterring office, bottoming at 6500, then recocery up to 10k is the big picture, looking at day-to-day performance might be useful for a day trader, but not a serious economist trying to evaluate the market and the economy as a whole. Anyway, then you make note fo the market giving back. Next day or two I assert that if we must look at he market as a day-to-day approach, it is doing well; up 155 at that point, finished at +200 yeaterday. I pointed put that daily fluctuations are normal, even of 100 points. Hell, 200 points isn't that unusual. So today it's dropping 150 pts and now you're calling the whole thing tragic and the economy done. It's profit-takers and reinvestors; often after a 200-point day the market drops. People profit-taking and trying to beat others before they do, and then reinvest before others do. Is this new to you? I'd be curious to see what kind of alleged so-called stock investor you are. You're obviously an Obama-hater and you're playing the market short so you're really pissed about the DJIA recovery. You're not that hard to figure out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #69 October 30, 2009 Quote Quote Quote That's right! As long as Obama keeps spending, we'll keep doing GRRRRRRRRREAT!!! and the dow is giving up everything today that it gained yesterday. "You're obviously an Obama-hater and you're playing the market short so you're really pissed about the DJIA recovery." Wrong and wrong again. that simple statement shows you do not know what you are talking about. Let me just say this one last time. The market is not doing well.... it is very over sold and the "indicators" you are using are flawed. Read the last article I posted. I also think you should look at the other posters link and read that article. Stop labeling me and understand I am simply stating this is not a recovery by any stretch of the imagination. Will it get better? I hope so but from a market stand point it looks "iffy" at best. This market could easily give up everything its gained in no time and no I'm not talking daily gains Im talking about going back to 6000-7000. Wow.... you really have no clue! Market flucuations like this are NOT normal they are BAD. Are they a typical right now... yes but they are still very bad. I work for one of the biggest investment research firms in the country and all we do is study the market and you are trying to give me a lesson in what I do or do not have to look at? I never pull out this card but because you are with nothing backing up anything you are saying I am. I KNOW WAY MORE THAN YOU DO! I will probably get slammed by others for saying that but what you are stating and the circles in your thought process are just insane. I have stated several times that this is not about Obama and stated how I am looking at the market. You keep ASSuming things that are way in left field.... glad you have me figured out Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #70 October 30, 2009 QuoteThe market is not doing well.... it is very over sold and the "indicators" you are using are flawed. The market IS the indicator as to how well it's doing. It can never be over or under sold - it is what it is. Maybe a better way to phrase what you are trying to say is that you think the market will go back down in the future. Well, there are thousands of unemployed stock market analysts that think it will go back up and back down, so feel free to join that crowd. That's like saying house prices were over-valued - they sold for what they sold for, the fact that many people leveraged themselves past what is reasonable is beside the point.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #71 October 30, 2009 Quote Wrong and wrong again. that simple statement shows you do not know what you are talking about. I'm a gambling man, I would love to buy some odds on you not starting a post, "You don't know what you're talking about, man." Could I get like, 30:1, 50:1 maybe? Usually when someone says that they follow it up by then explaining what the right course of thought is, that is, if they have one. Quote The market is not doing well.... it is very over sold and the "indicators" you are using are flawed. Intelligence would require you then tell me what you think are the *right* indicators. ......waiting..... - DJIA - GDP - Unemp are the primary economic indicators. Quote Read the last article I posted. I also think you should look at the other posters link and read that article. You should make your argument, let me help: The primary reliable indicators are ________ because ______________. Quote Stop labeling me and understand I am simply stating this is not a recovery by any stretch of the imagination. Stop worrying about my opinion of you or what motivates you; I'm not PAing you. And early on, the indicators taht matter are looking good. Can they do a 180? Sure, but I'm happy they are looking good early. I'm sorry your short buys are coming due and you have to shell out money, but that's gambling. Quote This market could easily give up everything its gained in no time and no I'm not talking daily gains Im talking about going back to 6000-7000. And it could go to 12k, 13K+; that's why they call it gambling. If you knew you would sell everything and buy stock straight or short. Quote Wow.... you really have no clue! Market flucuations like this are NOT normal they are BAD. Are they a typical right now... yes but they are still very bad. They seeem to be typical. Hell, with the Clinton boom to 9800 we had days that would make yesteday and today look mild and these were during the biggest growth periods ever, so I guess that was bad too Quote I work for one of the biggest investment research firms in the country and all we do is study the market and you are trying to give me a lesson in what I do or do not have to look at? I'm not trying to give anyone a lesson, I'm saying the indicators look good early; hope it lasts. Yet you claim to be some expert yet all you can do is cite articles; what do you do for a living, again? Quote I never pull out this card but because you are with nothing backing up anything you are saying I am. I KNOW WAY MORE THAN YOU DO! I don't give a shit what your title is, actually state something substantive. I'm a licensed AP and IA, private pilot. If someone asked an aircraft question and I kept saying: I'm an FAA licensed mech and inspector, but made no statement as to theirr question, I would be thought of as incompetent. You can't sit there and wave your credentials unless you can back it; give us a deatiled explanation of: - Why the market is doing wellnow - What it should be doing - What factors need to happen - What the future of teh market will be Just as a start, feel free to educate us, or just keep waving your flag, as it is it's a white one. Quote I will probably get slammed by others for saying that but what you are stating and the circles in your thought process are just insane. I have stated several times that this is not about Obama and stated how I am looking at the market. You keep ASSuming things that are way in left field.... I think Obama has had a huge effect on the market and overall EARLY recovery, lastability will be the test. Since the economy wasn't given a chance to really tank, we will never understand how bad this mess was. Neo-cons ignore the, "worst economy sinc ethe Great Depression" as a campaign speech. Tell me, DO YOU BELIEVE THIS WAS THE WORST ECONOMY SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #72 October 30, 2009 QuoteThat's like saying house prices were over-valued - they sold for what they sold for, the fact that many people leveraged themselves past what is reasonable is beside the point. Right, they were overvalued by today's standard, they were valued at exactly what they were worth at they time. Evidence of that is found by their appraisal and selling price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #73 October 30, 2009 Quote Quote That's right! As long as Obama keeps spending, we'll keep doing GRRRRRRRRREAT!!! and the dow is giving up everything today that it gained yesterday. I can't believe a self-titled stock expert would look at any one days performance and call it anything but a tiny irrelevant occurrence. Don't go and cite October 29, 1929, I mean in virtually any times. One day is not a trend, it's an occurrence. A good or bad week can be a trend, a month sure, but a day??? Go look outside, the sky is falling. It's quite obvious that you think the market should tank, so you're trying to build arguments as to how it will, gains are just a temporary fluke; losses are permanent. That's called building a case from the top-down, rather than looking at it objectively and drawing a conclusion. You just can't believe that the market is even above 3k and you'll find reasons that it will be and anyone who says it's doing great just, DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. You look at 200-point losses as validation and 200-point gains as temporary flukes; I look at both as normal activity of the market and watch the market from afar over a stretch of time before I draw a conclusion. Warren Buffet invested a shitload around 8k on the way down, he bought a bit early, but it appears he's ahead of the game, I guess you're smarter than him, huh? Good luck on your shorts. EDITED to ADD: Gambling touts use the same strategy of rationalization. They pick a team to cover, if they don't it's not because it was a bad pick; it's because of some outside interference. Many events happen that are not explainable. I used to switch my 401k sometimes daily. I would hear the news at the end of the day and they would try to retrospectively justify why the market rose or fell, they would say based upon earnings statements, GDP release, unemployment releases, etc. They always had a reason until I decided that following the market and trying to reason its trends is like trying to guess which team will win a game. There is so much ego on the line with this prognostication that people create entire enterprises out of guessing and justifying. Hell, with sports, esp baseball, the best team is around 600, the worst around 400, so really, hitting a spherical ball coming at you at ~90 mph moving like crazy with a round or cylindrically-shaped bat is about as predictable as playing the lottery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #74 October 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteThat's like saying house prices were over-valued - they sold for what they sold for, the fact that many people leveraged themselves past what is reasonable is beside the point. Right, they were overvalued by today's standard, they were valued at exactly what they were worth at they time. Evidence of that is found by their appraisal and selling price. The entire situation we're in stemmed from the housing market being oversold. And appraisals proved to be a worthwhile as the debt ratings on the CDOs. Markets can be oversold or undersold. But where it will go...everyone makes projections on earnings that may or may not pan out. But being happy about a GDP growth that was primarily financed by government deficit spending is really not a sign of a investor anyone else should follow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #75 October 30, 2009 Quote Quote Quote That's like saying house prices were over-valued - they sold for what they sold for, the fact that many people leveraged themselves past what is reasonable is beside the point. Right, they were overvalued by today's standard, they were valued at exactly what they were worth at they time. Evidence of that is found by their appraisal and selling price. The entire situation we're in stemmed from the housing market being oversold. And appraisals proved to be a worthwhile as the debt ratings on the CDOs. Markets can be oversold or undersold. But where it will go...everyone makes projections on earnings that may or may not pan out. But being happy about a GDP growth that was primarily financed by government deficit spending is really not a sign of a investor anyone else should follow. Exactly and I tried to explain things several times to ol' Lucky but he obviously thinks Obama is the second coming of Christ. Lucky I never even brought Obama in this you did but you think anything good his because of him and anything bad is Bush's fault. You cannot see the holes in what you are saying and you have contradicted the post title itself several times. By the way I'm not short I am trading neautral right now in Hedged plays and doing quite well so keep on throwing out terms you do not understand and assuming you know what you are talking about. Riddler... a market can be over or under/over sold. It is a main indicator in analysis. I hope this does all turn around and I hope Obama is successful but yes I do disagree with what he is doing as 95% of economists and market people do. I am making great money in this market and really would like the ups and downs to continue but for the country that is bad. I hope things get more stable. I doubt that it will though. Oh and I'm done with this thread and your rhetoric lucky its not funny anymore just sad Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
