7 Children take into care because of obesity

[Skyrad 0]

Seven children have been taken in to care in Scotlannd with Obesity being cited as a cause. Should children in obese families be allowed to be removed by the state to prevent abuse by negligent parents? I vote yes.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091022/tuk-seven-fat-family-children-in-care-6323e80.html

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[birdshit 0]

My gawd... Could you imagine if the states adopted such a policy?

In the United States, the percentage of overweight or obese children has doubled over the past 30 years to 25 per cent of the under-19 population. http://www.betterhealthusa.com/public/227.cfm

In 2002, 72.9 million children younger than the age of eighteen lived in the United States. http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/1623/How-Many-Children-BIRTH-INDICATORS.html

So if we multiply 72,900,000 times 25 percent we get 18,225,000 obese children.

If you calculate the tax dollars spent to keep a child in the custody of the government, lets just say a thousand dollars a month each, then your spending $18,225,000,000 a month, or $218,700,000,000 (218 billion, 700 million) dollars per year. Thats twice what we will spend in FY2010 for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Maybe Ireland can afford that, but we sure as hell can't.

edit to add: I can't believe two of you people actually support such a ridiculous policy...

[Skyrad 0]

Actually this was in Scotland. As for the US, it would sort out the unemployment problems and encourages building projects on mass! But joking aside, other than obesity caused by medical conditions children being seriously obese is simply the cause of physical abuse or neglaect y the parents. Why should this form of life threatening abuse be taken any less seriously than other forms of physical abuse. The state has a duty of care just as the parents have.
In some cases it may just be a need for education and the opportunity for access to exercise programs. In severe cases in which that does not work then obligatory fat camps for excerise and re-education maybe the way to go. Finally forced removal from the family pending re-education and rehabilitation. failing that the children stay in foster care or homes.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 2]

The US has a better system: infanticide via denial of health coverage.

[Erroll 80]

Quote

Actually this was in Scotland. As for the US, it would sort out the unemployment problems and encourages building projects on mass!

And by the sounds of it, there is a lot of mass in the US.

[Glitch 0]

Well lets face it.... some folks just aren't qualified (no matter how you slice it) or fit to be parents. Why is it that you need a license / register w/the govt to drive a car, catch a fish, buy a gun, etc etc etc.... but if you can figure out how to drop your pants than your allowed to breed?

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[Andy9o8 2]

OK, serious answer: On balance, No. Slippery slope and all that.

[Skyrad 0]

I agree, but enforced sterilisation is a whole new thread.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

OK, serious answer: On balance, No. Slippery slope and all that.

I agree that it shouldn't be routine but I do feel that it should be an option. Something needs to be done about obesity, its a ticking bomb in countries with socialised healthcare. For neoplasms, Diabetes, orthopaedic problems includng joint replacements and CV disease its a major factor. Obesity is more likely to break the NHS than any other factor. If the US wants to move to a socialised medicine model (which I support) it needs to deal with the problem of obesity. (However lets not make this a US bitch fight between Obama supporters and haters)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

OK, serious answer: On balance, No. Slippery slope and all that.

I agree that it shouldn't be routine but I do feel that it should be an option. Something needs to be done about obesity, its a ticking bomb in countries with socialised healthcare. For neoplasms, Diabetes, orthopaedic problems includng joint replacements and CV disease its a major factor. Obesity is more likely to break the NHS than any other factor. If the US wants to move to a socialised medicine model (which I support) it needs to deal with the problem of obesity.

It's big grey area, but in this instance, I say No - it's not sufficiently extreme to warrant removal.

Kids living in a house where both parents are drug-addicted, there's constant drug activity in the house and they're not being properly taken care of? Yes. Kid with cancer or severe heart disorder, and in urgent need of immediate medical care, and the parents insist on home-treating with nothing more than herbs and chicken lips? Yes.

This case: Intensive, frequent in-home monitoring by Social Services warranted? Probably. Removal from the home? No.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

The US has a better system: infanticide via denial of health coverage.

I'm still wondering how no medical insurance equals killing. Perhaps it is suicide by failing to get health insurance. Or even suicide by deciding that you'd rather not pay $10k for treatment.

Andy - you know that a person paying for these things will be bankrupt because they didn't set aside money for it. Your choice means bankrupting others because THEY haven't set aside money for it.


As for obese kids, why aren't they committing adult obese?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kbordson 8]

My thoughts

Obesity IS a MAJOR problem, here in the States and abroad. Childhood obesity is an even sadder problem that ideally wouldn't exist... but neither should any of the eating disorders. Some of those ARE caused by abuse and neglect. Some are caused by SOCIETY. As a society, I think that we value the WRONG things. We have commercials and ads with models having a BMI of under 19 - which can either motive a child to be too thin or can destroy hope of "being pretty" when the BMI is over 25. We have inventions of convenience because our lives are too "busy"... but don't have time to enjoy life. We tell children "sit down and be quiet".... but then are shocked when all they want to do is play video games.

AS A CULTURE, we should change. We need to become more HEALTH aware - with a focus on healthy diets, active lifestyles, and give people an awareness of what being a couch potato truly does to the body. But the society is made of individuals that have rights... and those include exercising personal choices. I have a choice to make breakfast EITHER a can of Mt. Dew OR a whole grain cereal. I have a choice to EITHER walk to the grocery store or drive the 2.5miles. As INDIVIDUALS, we make choices... but as a culture, we need to encourage the healthy ones.

But... as a set of parents.... it is a tough call to say "take away those children." It could warrant an inspection of the living environment - is the house a healthy place, are the parents competent and willing to parent, is it safe for the child to be there? But removing just because the child is obese ... I don't think I would support that.

[peregrinerose 0]

You are working on the blatantly false assumption that foster parents will do something about the obesity. Our son has been obese his entire life. For the first time, he's a normal weight. He's lost about 25 lbs since moving in with us, solely due to football and we don't eat crap, don't even let it in the house. Many foster parents feed junk to the kids... it's quick, cheap, and easy. Not all foster parents are good ones. The psych ramifications on the children due to displacement is also pretty significant.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[jimmytavino 16]

"feed junk to kids"


.... there's the issue.. right there...
and good for you, for removing such poison from your families mealtime regiment....


First..... shut down and shutter!!!!! every McDonalds restaurant ON the Planet!!!! Turn them into local community excersize rooms.....

and all the other places like Mickey Dees, who make it "quick and easy " for people to glutton down, all sorts of overly salty, overly fat full, and overly useless calories,,, under the guise of "fast food"....

Fast ? maybe so...
food? technically,, i guess it is...
But Nutrition??? i think not...
healthy? hell No..
Cost effective???? no way....
people burn a 20 dollar bill for a bagful of fat , carbs, salt and sugar... Even though the corporate bigshots have started all these, "green menus " and salad choices,, and try to drive what is being touted as 'healthy food' down our throats,, the truth is.... we as a collective society are either too lazy, to ignorant, or just too plain stupid, to see that stuff for what it is...
Insidious and harmful....
all wrapped up in a Big Ronald McDonald smile....

and most all other such similars places, are equally to blame for the quagmire in which we find ourselves..

but that's corporate America for ya'.... As long as the bottom line stays in the black, all the rest is just collateral damage...

They claim.. " we just offer the fare, People can or can not avail themselves of it..."
Problem is... we as a people have become waaaay more Dumb...despite all the warnings,,, and I can NEVER drive past a burger place without seeing a dozen cars in the parking lot, and 4 or 5 lined up in the drive through....regardless of the time of day...
watch carefully, yourselves,, as you pass these places in your day to day activities... and you'll see i am not exaggerating...

Overweight adults,,,, purchasing fattening food for themselves AND their kids....

tragic... and an omen of our future...

That coupled with Little to NO physical excersize or outdoor, "running around" time and most of our current generation of kids, will be facing a real uphill battle...

start letting. ' social services ' or ' child protectives' intervene,,, and nothing good comes out of it...except broken homes...
Let the children remain with the parents,,, Who ARE responsbile to raise them,,,, only FINE the parents,, and fine them substantial $$$$$ if many or all of their offspring, are OVERLY over weight.....

arghhhhh i dunno what the answer is...
we ought to be ashamed of where we find ourselves, today... regarding this issue....
Decades ago,, we had no idea about HDL LDL, cholesterol, blood sugar, etc etc,,, and yet, people were not so obese..
Today we KNOW about such things, and we KNOW about the DIRECT correlation between obesity and disease, and even so, armed with THAT knowledge, we blindly march forward, allowing the worse to happen to the next generation....
sad....
One would think that our federally funded Food & Drug Administration, would be looking to the best interests of the public, and NOt the best interests of Fortune 500 companies, Big Business, and all the "Legal" drug pushers, like Pfizer. Bristol Myers, etc etc.

can't our gov't show the same bravado and steadfastness of purpose that our defense dept, portrays, as we march all over the Goddamn world, dictating this and dictating that..???
let's fix the stuff here at home,,,, and only then,,, think about "expanding our influence globally"...
No wonder our status, world wide has taken such a terrible beating....we have become an example of how NOT to run a country.....

jt

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

"feed junk to kids"


.... there's the issue.. right there...
and good for you, for removing such poison from your families mealtime regiment....


First..... shut down and shutter!!!!! every McDonalds restaurant ON the Planet!!!! Turn them into local community excersize rooms.....

and all the other places like Mickey Dees, who make it "quick and easy " for people to glutton down, all sorts of overly salty, overly fat full, and overly useless calories,,, under the guise of "fast food"....

Fast ? maybe so...
food? technically,, i guess it is...
But Nutrition??? i think not...
healthy? hell No..
Cost effective???? no way....
people burn a 20 dollar bill for a bagful of fat , carbs, salt and sugar... Even though the corporate bigshots have started all these, "green menus " and salad choices,, and try to drive what is being touted as 'healthy food' down our throats,, the truth is.... we as a collective society are either too lazy, to ignorant, or just too plain stupid, to see that stuff for what it is...
Insidious and harmful....
all wrapped up in a Big Ronald McDonald smile....

and most all other such similars places, are equally to blame for the quagmire in which we find ourselves..

but that's corporate America for ya'.... As long as the bottom line stays in the black, all the rest is just collateral damage...

They claim.. " we just offer the fare, People can or can not avail themselves of it..."
Problem is... we as a people have become waaaay more Dumb...despite all the warnings,,, and I can NEVER drive past a burger place without seeing a dozen cars in the parking lot, and 4 or 5 lined up in the drive through....regardless of the time of day...
watch carefully, yourselves,, as you pass these places in your day to day activities... and you'll see i am not exaggerating...

Overweight adults,,,, purchasing fattening food for themselves AND their kids....

tragic... and an omen of our future...

That coupled with Little to NO physical excersize or outdoor, "running around" time and most of our current generation of kids, will be facing a real uphill battle...

start letting. ' social services ' or ' child protectives' intervene,,, and nothing good comes out of it...except broken homes...
Let the children remain with the parents,,, Who ARE responsbile to raise them,,,, only FINE the parents,, and fine them substantial $$$$$ if many or all of their offspring, are OVERLY over weight.....

arghhhhh i dunno what the answer is...
we ought to be ashamed of where we find ourselves, today... regarding this issue....
Decades ago,, we had no idea about HDL LDL, cholesterol, blood sugar, etc etc,,, and yet, people were not so obese..
Today we KNOW about such things, and we KNOW about the DIRECT correlation between obesity and disease, and even so, armed with THAT knowledge, we blindly march forward, allowing the worse to happen to the next generation....
sad....
One would think that our federally funded Food & Drug Administration, would be looking to the best interests of the public, and NOt the best interests of Fortune 500 companies, Big Business, and all the "Legal" drug pushers, like Pfizer. Bristol Myers, etc etc.

can't our gov't show the same bravado and steadfastness of purpose that our defense dept, portrays, as we march all over the Goddamn world, dictating this and dictating that..???
let's fix the stuff here at home,,,, and only then,,, think about "expanding our influence globally"...
No wonder our status, world wide has taken such a terrible beating....we have become an example of how NOT to run a country.....

jt

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but are you advocating that the government or some other entity should say what can and can not be served at restaurants? If this is the case, where do you draw the line of what people can and can not do or eat because someone decides it's not good for the public and their health?

Slippery slope.

[jimmytavino 16]

please do not mistake "restaurants" for the food dispensing locations, that my post mentions...
Food, nutrition, eating and drinking are all wonderful and beneficial things, and one of lifes real delights. Restaurants offer the atmosphere, character(s) , menu, and amenities to allow the experience to be a pleasant one. Fast Food, on the other hand, offers only the barest modicum of "ambience" and coupled with the "semi-good" food... ( can't really say it's bad,,, just 'cause i feel that way.... others may disagree, and apparently MANY do... as shown by the traffic congestion in and out of many such places )..... is not always a healthy choice...

i see you've highlighted what DOES sound a bit like "Revolution in the Air" !!
Don't really trust the government to step in.. they seldom do what's best for the citizens,
but some sense of Optimism inside me, would count on another Entity,, that of good old plain common sense....

It would take a community with resolve ,to make some changes, stop eating in the car,,, give up some "conveniences' if they aren't really good for us...Backstep a little, and instead,,,, prepare sensible healthy food, at home, the way it was decades ago... stretch the grocery dollars, build some family harmony, and build better overall physical and mental health...

"shut Down and Shutter "!!!! had a nice ring to to when i typed it, so i stayed with it..!!!

but i CAN see where the statement can be interpreted as ' flirting with the edge of the envelope ' ....

I feel so radical!!!


as far as drawing the line....you bring up a good point... In a land of freedom, no one wants ANY lines drawn,,, (pursuit of happiness and all that....) and far be from me,,, to decide..
but sometimes we need to be protected...especially from things that harm us... Isn't that the purpose of the Food & Drug administration??? But humans do as they like and often do the opposite of what is best for them...
Recommendations, and advisements....
" common sense bulletins" and notices, issued by Think tanks, Institutes of Learning, and Independent evaluators, knowledgeable in the respective subject matter, could go a long way, in leading our country and world, forward....

peace

jt

[TomAiello 26]

The right to raise your children in the manner you see fit is a fundamental human right. I don't believe we have the moral authority to remove a child from their parents' care simply because we disagree with the manner in which the parent is raising them.

Take fat kids away from their parents and what's next? Taking away kids whose parents let them watch too much TV? Taking away kids whose parents let them eat junk food? Taking away kids whose parents let them go to bed at night without saying their prayers?

Where does it end?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com