JFK - 3 shots that changed America

[airdvr 210]

Anyone been watching this? Very thought provoking.

My question has always been 'why did Jack Ruby kill Oswald?' I think the truth lies there.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[christelsabine 1]

Changed ?? How and where?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[JohnMitchell 16]

It's all speculation, of course, but some say our long involvement in Vietnam may have been cut short if Kennedy had served a second term. It was Johnson who escalated the heck out of it. Hopefully the civil rights movement, already supported by the Kennedys, John and Bobby, would have made the same or more progress as it made under Johnson's time in office.

[Andy9o8 2]

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It's all speculation, of course, but some say our long involvement in Vietnam may have been cut short if Kennedy had served a second term. It was Johnson who escalated the heck out of it. Hopefully the civil rights movement, already supported by the Kennedys, John and Bobby, would have made the same or more progress as it made under Johnson's time in office.

I agree re: Vietnam.

Re: civil rights, I think a lot of the movement accelerated under LBJ, partly because national grief and guilt over JFK's murder helped the coalition of LBJ and (mostly) non-Southern Congressional Democrats get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. Also, while JFK was a New England Bramin patrician, who intellectualized civil rights, LBJ came up in life in simple circumstances and in his gut was a real man of the people.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Very good analysis. That nicely explains my doubts that civil rights might not have made the same progress under the Kennedys. Johnson was a real arm twisting scrapper of a politician.

[NickDG 23]

I was in the fourth grade, and sitting in class, at the time President Kennedy was assassinated. They had a public address speaker in all the classrooms and the news was announced by the Principle. She also said classes were canceled for the rest of the day and told us all to go home. There was a photo of President Kennedy on the wall and I remember staring at it trying to make sense of what I'd just heard.

As I walked home the people in the streets of New York City were openly crying. Many gathered every few feet around automobiles listening to the radios. When I got home both my mother and grandmother were in tears.

In these politically charged times it's hard to understand how most of us felt at that time. But I remember the following weeks being filled with sorrow, anguish, and a sense of loss the likes of which I've never experienced since.

History tends to elevate and tarnish the dead with equal inaccuracy. But a good quote for perspective on John Kennedy would be, "Big heroes have big flaws."

As far as conspiracy goes I find it interesting to talk about, but living the whole episode and its aftermath I truly believe a lone frustrated wanna-be radical was wholly responsible for the assassination and he was killed by a lone frustrated wanna-be gangster. I find my comfort in the fact the CIA, the Mafia, the Cubans, or any other implicated entity couldn't have kept the secret of killing a President for this long. And that's also the very reason I know there are no aliens being stored at Area 51 . . .

NickD

[Andy9o8 2]

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As far as conspiracy goes I find it interesting to talk about, but living the whole episode and its aftermath I truly believe a lone frustrated wanna-be radical was wholly responsible for the assassination and he was killed by a lone frustrated wanna-be gangster. I find my comfort in the fact the CIA, the Mafia, the Cubans, or any other implicated entity couldn't have kept the secret of killing a President for this long. And that's also the very reason I know there are no aliens being stored at Area 51 . . .

Agreed, on all points.

[airtwardo 7]

I know there are no aliens being stored at Area 51 . . .

NickD


Yeah...they're at O.J.'s house.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[christelsabine 1]

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It's all speculation, of course, but some say our long involvement in Vietnam may have been cut short if Kennedy had served a second term. It was Johnson who escalated the heck out of it. Hopefully the civil rights movement, already supported by the Kennedys, John and Bobby, would have made the same or more progress as it made under Johnson's time in office.

There are many speculations evolving around the Kennedy murder - such as there were more than 1 shooter involved (beside Oswald, which himself seems to have been a poor victim ...And suddenly, Jack Ruby entered the scene ??? ) etc.

That does not explain any change in the US. What did OP mean?

Killing leaders of a country is not new and many times was deciding its fate.

These shots, what did they change in the US?

This is a highly intersting question to an alien, really.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[airtwardo 7]

It's now a bit more difficult to get 20.00 mail order rifles.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[captain1976 0]

Jack Ruby killed Oswald because in his twisted mind he though it would make him a national hero, simply that.

As far as why Kennedy was killed, I think it was because
of his brother Bobby's grandstanding and attacks on organized crime. Organized crime is what put JFK in office to begin with. Remember that Father Joe was a rum runner and made a fortune with his involvement with the mob. A fortune that bought his boy the presidency.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[airtwardo 7]

A fortune that bought his boy the presidency.



Nuthin' changes.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[christelsabine 1]

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It's now a bit more difficult to get 20.00 mail order rifles.

Why? You have to pay the mail charges now?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Andy9o8 2]

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Jack Ruby killed Oswald because in his twisted mind he though it would make him a national hero, simply that.

As far as why Kennedy was killed, I think it was because of his brother Bobby's grandstanding and attacks on organized crime. Organized crime is what put JFK in office to begin with. Remember that Father Joe was a rum runner and made a fortune with his involvement with the mob. A fortune that bought his boy the presidency.

If there really was a connection from Mob to Oswald to assassination, it would have been proven more or less conclusively by now. I've read a TON of Kennedy assassination literature in my lifetime. I know what the evidence is, and what it lacks. Things like that can only remain hidden for so long. Sorry, it just ain't there.

[Lucky... 0]

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Jack Ruby killed Oswald because in his twisted mind he though it would make him a national hero, simply that.

As far as why Kennedy was killed, I think it was because of his brother Bobby's grandstanding and attacks on organized crime. Organized crime is what put JFK in office to begin with. Remember that Father Joe was a rum runner and made a fortune with his involvement with the mob. A fortune that bought his boy the presidency.

If there really was a connection from Mob to Oswald to assassination, it would have been proven more or less conclusively by now. I've read a TON of Kennedy assassination literature in my lifetime. I know what the evidence is, and what it lacks. Things like that can only remain hidden for so long. Sorry, it just ain't there.

Remember, Captain operates under the premise:

- All Dems = bad
- All Repubs = good

So factor that in when you read his posts.

Hey Captain, wasn't Reagan a real successful president?

[lawrocket 3]

If Jack Ruby was an assassin in a plot to kill Oswald, then Oswald was in on that plot. Ruby was across the street at the Western Union when Oswald was supposed to be transferred. Then Oswald asked to change his sweater and in the time it took them to find him another one, Ruby had come to check out the scene - just before Oswald was escorted out.

All who knew Ruby knew that he was devastated by JFK's assassination. Wheb asked why he did it, he said he saw Oswald smiling and thought, "You son of a bitch" and shot him.

Of course, afterward he was ecstatic. He said something to the effect of he couldn't have pulled it off better if he'd planned it. He thought it was heroic and that nobody would convict the rat who killed JFK.

Of course, Melvin Belli had quite a bit to do with the ultimate fate if this - turning Ruby's trial into a circus.

Everyone who knew Ruby said several things about him. He was inconsolable. He was quick tempered. And he was the last fucking guy on earth to be in on a conspiracy because he had a big mouth and sought attention.

Oswald's wife and brother also have no doubt that Oswald was capable of and did kill JFK.

It is unfortunate and mind blowing that some lesser intelligence cracker could assassinate the President just because he wanted to. We just want to believe there was something bigger to it.

There wasn't.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[christelsabine 1]

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Jack Ruby killed Oswald because in his twisted mind he though it would make him a national hero, simply that.

As far as why Kennedy was killed, I think it was because of his brother Bobby's grandstanding and attacks on organized crime. Organized crime is what put JFK in office to begin with. Remember that Father Joe was a rum runner and made a fortune with his involvement with the mob. A fortune that bought his boy the presidency.

Oh all you taintless souls - the small rest of the world (and an overwhelming majority in your own country) knew there was a bigger power behind Oswald and Ruby

Oh man, Kennedy and his story still is that interesting

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[captain1976 0]

Remember, Captain operates under the premise:

- All Dems = bad
- All Repubs = good

So factor that in when you read his posts.

Hey Captain, wasn't Reagan a real successful president?

WRONG! The premise Captain operates under is that both Democratic and Republican leaders are all dysfunctional human civil servants that can't get a real job, so they picked politics.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Remember, Captain operates under the premise:

- All Dems = bad
- All Repubs = good

So factor that in when you read his posts.

Hey Captain, wasn't Reagan a real successful president?

WRONG! The premise Captain operates under is that both Democratic and Republican leaders are all dysfunctional human civil servants that can't get a real job, so they picked politics.

I just don't read you busting on Republicans. If you do and I missed it, ok, but then what is the ratio?

[captain1976 0]

Quote

Quote

Remember, Captain operates under the premise:

- All Dems = bad
- All Repubs = good

So factor that in when you read his posts.

Hey Captain, wasn't Reagan a real successful president?

WRONG! The premise Captain operates under is that both Democratic and Republican leaders are all dysfunctional human civil servants that can't get a real job, so they picked politics.

I just don't read you busting on Republicans. If you do and I missed it, ok, but then what is the ratio?


Actually, most of my comments are simply rhetoric and are just for fun. I like ball busting, especially to fanatics. Those who know me realize I'm just playing around.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Remember, Captain operates under the premise:

- All Dems = bad
- All Repubs = good

So factor that in when you read his posts.

Hey Captain, wasn't Reagan a real successful president?

WRONG! The premise Captain operates under is that both Democratic and Republican leaders are all dysfunctional human civil servants that can't get a real job, so they picked politics.

I just don't read you busting on Republicans. If you do and I missed it, ok, but then what is the ratio?

Actually, most of my comments are simply rhetoric and are just for fun. I like ball busting, especially to fanatics. Those who know me realize I'm just playing around.


Uh, yea. Again, never see ya having "fun" with Dems. Just an observation.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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That does not explain any change in the US. What did OP mean?

Killing leaders of a country is not new and many times was deciding its fate.

These shots, what did they change in the US?

This is a highly intersting question to an alien, really.

The title of the thread is a reference to a TV show on the History Channel

And I have to agree that Oswald acted alone, and Ruby did too.

The "gunman on the grassy knoll" was a misinterpretation of a radio recording, the "magic bullet" took a straight path through John Connelly who was turned to the side at the time.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rwieder 0]

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Jack Ruby killed Oswald because in his twisted mind he though it would make him a national hero, simply that.

I agree 100% - No Ball Bustin!

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As far as why Kennedy was killed, I think it was because of his brother Bobby's grandstanding and attacks on organized crime. Organized crime is what put JFK in office to begin with. Remember that Father Joe was a rum runner and made a fortune with his involvement with the mob. A fortune that bought his boy the presidency.

This is 110% accurate information. It's all historically documented facts. The only thing about RFK jerkin' the mob around is JFK let him do it. Both JFK & RFK enjoyed they're last visit at the White House with the old man, JK. Joe told both of the clowns exactly how they got where they were, and gave both of them a very stern warning about the failed plots to have Castro assinated and bustin' La Cotra Nostra's balls. Joe minced no words, but his advice fell on deaf ears and both of them paid for it with the ultimate price for their ignorance. Joe bought and paid for their positions and their ineptness led to their demise. Of course, coincidence, or what? JFK shot in Dallas, 60% of his protection circle of CIA agents spent the night before in Jack Ruby's Titty Bar, no bullet proof glass bubble top on the limo. We know from a policeman that at least 4 shots were fired, not three. What about the witnesses on the grassy knoll that ducted, even according to video tape because one shot came from behing their backs. The Zapruder film says it all, that head shot was from the front, not the rear, no arguement, anything else is just BS. I've shot too many deer and varmints, i know which wall matter goes when you shoot from the rear or from the front. It wasn't until Jackie went crawling on the trunk of that Lincoln that a CIA agent finally got up on the trunk on the steps provided for them on each side and grabbed the handle, which is also positioned on the right and left on the trunk of the limo. No crime scene preservance what soever, why all of the media allowed in the School Book Depository? Why would a police officer pick up the alleged rifle that was the so called murder weapon without any gloves on, JFK's corpse at Parkland Hospital being re-arranged to fit the conspiracy theory and his brain being removed from the cranial area, it was supposed to be brought out of mothballs in 20 years, never happened, never will. All of these facts lead me to believe a Conspiracy Theory/Plot did and does exists.

I'm a damned good shot. I have acces to some sniper weapons, bolt action and semi-automic of various calibers and i couldn't have taken a bolt action rifle and put all three shots in that pattern. I understand Oswald had high scores in his rifle training when he was in the American Army, but he wasn't that good, no one is, not with a bolt action rifle with a scope on it anyway. Fire away.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Andy9o8 2]

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The title of the thread is a reference to a TV show on the History Channel

And I have to agree that Oswald acted alone, and Ruby did too.

The "gunman on the grassy knoll" was a misinterpretation of a radio recording, the "magic bullet" took a straight path through John Connelly who was turned to the side at the time.

I saw the show, and while I agree with most of its conclusions, there is one key data point with which I disagree: the theory that a single bullet hit both JFK and Connally.

A careful, frame-by-frame analysis of the Zaprude film shows JFK clutching his throat as the limo emerges from behind the sign. At that point, JFK has already been hit in the back, through the torso. Connally seems to be looking over his right shoulder, in apparent reflex to the sound (only) of that gunshot from behind him, but otherwise not characteristically reactive to having been struck by a bullet. A couple frames later you can see Connally's face distort and his cheeks puff out - that's the impact of a separate bullet striking him and forcing air out of his lungs - coupled with a sudden physical displacement of his body from the force of the bullet impacting him.

[lawrocket 3]

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JFK shot in Dallas, 60% of his protection circle of CIA agents spent the night before in Jack Ruby's Titty Bar

That's a new one on me. Which of the protective detail, exactly, was it?

[Reply] no bullet proof glass bubble top on the limo.

Because it wasn't raining.


[Reply] We know from a policeman that at least 4 shots were fired, not three.

Bullshit. This was a theory sent forward by a group that said it could prove four shots were fired by echo patterns from an open mike recorded on a police scanner. they were right, and would have proven it had the officer been in a place he actually wasn't. The theory was disproven on this basis.

[Reply]What about the witnesses on the grassy knoll that ducted, even according to video tape because one shot came from behing their backs.

So these superhumans wouldn't duck at shots coming from the front or the side? If groups of people had the fortitude to stay silhouetted through gunfire, only fropping for shots from the rear, I'd say "conspiracy" just for that.

[Reply] The Zapruder film says it all, that head shot was from the front, not the rear, no arguement, anything else is just BS.

Then I've got lots of bs for you. Ever see a seizure? Do they flatten or curl up? Yep.

Take a look at zapruder film. Where does that cloud of blood and brain move? Yep - forward and to the right. That is the "exit wound." You may also understand the all of that brain and bone has energy that also directs the head backward.

See that motorcycle cop to the right? If the shot was from the from his windshielf wouldn't have been covered with JFK. See the back of the limo?

The front right of his head was blown out. The top right blown in.

Not bs. Oliver Stone was a fucking asshole.

[Reply] I've shot too many deer and varmints, i know which wall matter goes when you shoot from the rear or from the front.

Right. Where'd the matter go? Far more telling than where'd the body and remaining head go.


[Reply] It wasn't until Jackie went crawling on the trunk of that Lincoln that a CIA agent finally got up on the trunk on the steps provided for them on each side and grabbed the handle, which is also positioned on the right and left on the trunk of the limo.

That was Clint Hill - Secret Service.

[Reply] No crime scene preservance what soever, why all of the media allowed in the School Book Depository?

Because it was local. Trust me - there were some jurisdictional battles.

[Reply] Why would a police officer pick up the alleged rifle that was the so called murder weapon without any gloves on,

Because it was loca and CSI was not in the state seen on tv. Hell, it still isn't.

[Reply] JFK's corpse at Parkland Hospital being re-arranged to fit the conspiracy theory and his brain being removed from the cranial area, it was supposed to be brought out of mothballs in 20 years, never happened, never will.

Hmmm. The Parkland doctors who actually worked on him have different stories.

[Reply] All of these facts lead me to believe a Conspiracy Theory. Plot did and does exists.

And 45 years later not a soul has said a word. Bigger proof there wasn't one.

[Reply]I'm a damned good shot. I have acces to some sniper weapons, bolt action and semi-automic of various calibers and i couldn't have taken a bolt action rifle and put all three shots in that pattern.

What pattern? A deflection by a tree branch: miss low (makes sense - vehicle moving forward); and then a head wound on a nearly stationary behicle? I've had better groupings on that with iron sights.

[Reply]I understand Oswald had high scores in his rifle training when he was in the American Army

High while in the Marines.

,

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but he wasn't that good, no one is, not with a bolt action rifle with a scope on it anyway.

Bullshit. Two shots in 8.4 seconds from less than 80 yards with a zeroed scope and supported firing position?


[Reply] Fire away.

I would, but you might say that nobody could fire away!!! It can't be done.

My wife is hotter than your wife.