quade 4 #1 October 14, 2009 Seriously, a 1Mbps connection is now a right in Finland? http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0 I pay for a connection higher than that, but I'm lucky if I can stay reliably connected because my ISP (AT&T) are a bunch of idiots. I'd love to be able to take them to court on a rights violation!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #2 October 14, 2009 According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which the USA subscribes as signatory to the UN treaty (and hence it becomes part of the Supreme Law of the Land), health care IS a right.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 7 #3 October 14, 2009 You do have a right to health care. Just not free health care like some people think should happen. I have a right to firearms. dosent mean I have a right to free firearms. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #4 October 15, 2009 You need health care go to the emergency room as a last resort. Government run health insurance is not a right...sorry. Thank goodness we have a constitution....makes the other declaration meaningless in my mind. Quote According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which the USA subscribes as signatory to the UN treaty (and hence it becomes part of the Supreme Law of the Land), health care IS a right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #5 October 15, 2009 QuoteYou do have a right to health care. Just not free health care like some people think should happen. How much money do you pay for your other rights? How many US Dollars to you pay to not be bonded into slavery or not be subject to arbitrary arrest? I'm talking out of pocket expenses, here. And why do you think that any healthcare would be free? In the extreme case of socialized medicine, taxpayers would still foot the bill, just as they pay our other rights.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #6 October 15, 2009 QuoteYou do have a right to health care. Just not free health care like some people think should happen. I have a right to firearms. dosent mean I have a right to free firearms. Incorrect. You have a right to BEAR arms. You don't have a right to firearms. You DO have a right to healthcare, even if you are homeless and indigent.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #7 October 15, 2009 QuoteYou need health care go to the emergency room as a last resort. Government run health insurance is not a right...sorry. Thank goodness we have a constitution....makes the other declaration meaningless in my mind. Maybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #8 October 15, 2009 Got a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnDeere 0 #9 October 15, 2009 QuoteMaybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime. Speaking of that damn old pesky piece of paper can you show me where it says, healthcare is a right?Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #10 October 15, 2009 QuoteGot a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Read Article 6, and then tell us which article or amendment states that healthcare is not a right. Which states have laws stating healthcare is not a right?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnDeere 0 #11 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Got a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Read Article 6, and then tell us which article or amendment states that healthcare is not a right. Which states have laws stating healthcare is not a right? Hmm nice try. The constitution is NOT suposed to tell you what right you dont have. It tells you what right's you DO have. I love how you libs answer a question with a stupid question Get real!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,588 #12 October 15, 2009 Actually, the Constitution, in the 10th amendment, saysQuoteThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. The Constitution enumerates some rights that were particularly important, or, in those days, particularly timely, and then in the 10th basically said that anything not specifically limited by law is a right. Rights, however, aren't necessarily free. As someone said, we have the right to bear arms, but not free ones. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #13 October 15, 2009 QuoteAccording to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which the USA subscribes as signatory to the UN treaty (and hence it becomes part of the Supreme Law of the Land), health care IS a right. Sweet - now explain how you can force someone to give you that healthcare. If it's something someone else has to provide, it's a commodity, not a right.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #14 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Got a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Read Article 6, and then tell us which article or amendment states that healthcare is not a right. Which states have laws stating healthcare is not a right? Hmm nice try. The constitution is NOT suposed to tell you what right you dont have. It tells you what right's you DO have. I love how you libs answer a question with a stupid question Get real! Like I said, read Article 6 of the Constitution and Kallend's initial post in this thread.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #15 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Got a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Read Article 6, and then tell us which article or amendment states that healthcare is not a right. Which states have laws stating healthcare is not a right? Hmm nice try. The constitution is NOT suposed to tell you what right you dont have. It tells you what right's you DO have. I love how you libs answer a question with a stupid question Get real! Like I said, read Article 6 of the Constitution and Kallend's initial post in this thread. Wrong. Re-read the Article again and see if you and John can find your mistake.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #16 October 15, 2009 QuoteGot a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Apparently you read without comprehension. Try looking at Article VI BTW it doesn't trump the rights in the Constitution, it adds to them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #17 October 15, 2009 QuoteWrong. Re-read the Article again and see if you and John can find your mistake. You seem so confident. Please point out the mistake.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #18 October 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteMaybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime. Speaking of that damn old pesky piece of paper can you show me where it says, healthcare is a right? If the USA won't grant the human rights that the USA agreed to when it signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 (part of the governing documents of the UN to which the USA is joined by treaty ratified 25 Oct 1945), what moral ground does the USA have to criticize other nations like Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, Congo... for violating the rights of their citizens?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfitz 0 #19 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Maybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime. Speaking of that damn old pesky piece of paper can you show me where it says, healthcare is a right? If the USA won't grant the human rights that the USA agreed to when it signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 (part of the governing documents of the UN to which the USA is joined by treaty ratified 25 Oct 1945), what moral ground does the USA have to criticize other nations like Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, Congo... for violating the rights of their citizens? Hmm. I believe the question was referring to the constitution, not the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I guess if we can't answer that question, we'll just switch topics. Wasn't this thread about internet connection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #20 October 15, 2009 It's my understanding that there were TWO separate types of "rights" in that declaration. QuoteThe Universal Declaration was bifurcated into two distinct and different covenants, a Covenants on Civil and Political Rights and another Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Over the objection of the more developed states [Capitalist], which questioned the relevance and propriety of such provisions in covenants on human rights, both begin with the right of people to self-determination and to sovereignty over their natural resources. Then the two covenants go different ways.[14] The drafters of the Covenants initially intended only one instrument. The original drafts included only political and civil rights, but economic and social rights were added early. Western States then fought for, and obtained, a division into two covenants. They insisted that economic and social right were essentially aspirations or plans, not rights, since their realization depended on availability of resources and on controversial economic theory and ideology. These, they said, were not appropriate subjects for binding obligations and should not be allowed to dilute the legal character of provisions honoring political-civil rights; states prepared to assume obligations to respect political-civil rights should not be mitments[ambiguous]. There was wide agreement and clear recognition that the means required to enforce or induce compliance with socio-economic undertakings were different from the means required for civil-political rights. [15] source and for those that don't like wiki QuoteBecause of the divisions over which rights to include, and because some states declined to ratify any treaties including certain specific interpretations of human rights, and despite the Soviet bloc and a number of developing countries arguing strongly for the inclusion of all rights in a so-called Unity Resolution, the rights enshrined in the UDHR were split into two separate covenants, allowing states to adopt some rights and derogate others. Though this allowed the covenants to be created, one commentator has written that it denied the proposed principle that all rights are linked which was central to some interpretations of the UDHR. source Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #21 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Maybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime. Speaking of that damn old pesky piece of paper can you show me where it says, healthcare is a right? If the USA won't grant the human rights that the USA agreed to when it signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 (part of the governing documents of the UN to which the USA is joined by treaty ratified 25 Oct 1945), what moral ground does the USA have to criticize other nations like Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, Congo... for violating the rights of their citizens? Hmm. I believe the question was referring to the constitution, not the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I guess if we can't answer that question, we'll just switch topics. Wasn't this thread about internet connection. Have that many people really not read the Constitution closely enough to know that it explicitly recognizes international treaties to be "the supreme Law of the Land," provided they did not contradict the Constitution or state law? Generally speaking, America needs to take a Civics class, IMO.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #22 October 15, 2009 BUT by my reading, there was a division in the rights granted by that document. Prove to me which ones the U.S. agreed to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #23 October 15, 2009 QuoteBUT [sic] by my reading, there was a division in the rights granted by that document. Prove to me which ones the U.S. agreed to. Of which document are you speaking?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #24 October 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteBUT [sic] by my reading, there was a division in the rights granted by that document. Prove to me which ones the U.S. agreed to. Of which document are you speaking? So, it's easy to throw out insults on the need for civics classes, but... what about BASIC READING - look at post #20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #25 October 15, 2009 QuoteSo, it's easy to throw out insults on the need for civics classes, but... what about BASIC READING - look at post #20 That's rich, coming from someone who demonstrated a lack of basic writing skills in her post. I replied to post #22. How am I supposed to know what document you're referencing if you don't mention it in your post?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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riddler 0 #5 October 15, 2009 QuoteYou do have a right to health care. Just not free health care like some people think should happen. How much money do you pay for your other rights? How many US Dollars to you pay to not be bonded into slavery or not be subject to arbitrary arrest? I'm talking out of pocket expenses, here. And why do you think that any healthcare would be free? In the extreme case of socialized medicine, taxpayers would still foot the bill, just as they pay our other rights.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #6 October 15, 2009 QuoteYou do have a right to health care. Just not free health care like some people think should happen. I have a right to firearms. dosent mean I have a right to free firearms. Incorrect. You have a right to BEAR arms. You don't have a right to firearms. You DO have a right to healthcare, even if you are homeless and indigent.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #7 October 15, 2009 QuoteYou need health care go to the emergency room as a last resort. Government run health insurance is not a right...sorry. Thank goodness we have a constitution....makes the other declaration meaningless in my mind. Maybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #8 October 15, 2009 Got a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #9 October 15, 2009 QuoteMaybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime. Speaking of that damn old pesky piece of paper can you show me where it says, healthcare is a right?Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #10 October 15, 2009 QuoteGot a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Read Article 6, and then tell us which article or amendment states that healthcare is not a right. Which states have laws stating healthcare is not a right?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #11 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Got a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Read Article 6, and then tell us which article or amendment states that healthcare is not a right. Which states have laws stating healthcare is not a right? Hmm nice try. The constitution is NOT suposed to tell you what right you dont have. It tells you what right's you DO have. I love how you libs answer a question with a stupid question Get real!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #12 October 15, 2009 Actually, the Constitution, in the 10th amendment, saysQuoteThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. The Constitution enumerates some rights that were particularly important, or, in those days, particularly timely, and then in the 10th basically said that anything not specifically limited by law is a right. Rights, however, aren't necessarily free. As someone said, we have the right to bear arms, but not free ones. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #13 October 15, 2009 QuoteAccording to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which the USA subscribes as signatory to the UN treaty (and hence it becomes part of the Supreme Law of the Land), health care IS a right. Sweet - now explain how you can force someone to give you that healthcare. If it's something someone else has to provide, it's a commodity, not a right.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #14 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Got a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Read Article 6, and then tell us which article or amendment states that healthcare is not a right. Which states have laws stating healthcare is not a right? Hmm nice try. The constitution is NOT suposed to tell you what right you dont have. It tells you what right's you DO have. I love how you libs answer a question with a stupid question Get real! Like I said, read Article 6 of the Constitution and Kallend's initial post in this thread.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Got a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Read Article 6, and then tell us which article or amendment states that healthcare is not a right. Which states have laws stating healthcare is not a right? Hmm nice try. The constitution is NOT suposed to tell you what right you dont have. It tells you what right's you DO have. I love how you libs answer a question with a stupid question Get real! Like I said, read Article 6 of the Constitution and Kallend's initial post in this thread. Wrong. Re-read the Article again and see if you and John can find your mistake.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #16 October 15, 2009 QuoteGot a small one in my briefcase...read it at least once per year. Find the place in there where some right in some international document trumps the rights in the constitution. Will save you some time...its not there. Apparently you read without comprehension. Try looking at Article VI BTW it doesn't trump the rights in the Constitution, it adds to them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #17 October 15, 2009 QuoteWrong. Re-read the Article again and see if you and John can find your mistake. You seem so confident. Please point out the mistake.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #18 October 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteMaybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime. Speaking of that damn old pesky piece of paper can you show me where it says, healthcare is a right? If the USA won't grant the human rights that the USA agreed to when it signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 (part of the governing documents of the UN to which the USA is joined by treaty ratified 25 Oct 1945), what moral ground does the USA have to criticize other nations like Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, Congo... for violating the rights of their citizens?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #19 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Maybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime. Speaking of that damn old pesky piece of paper can you show me where it says, healthcare is a right? If the USA won't grant the human rights that the USA agreed to when it signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 (part of the governing documents of the UN to which the USA is joined by treaty ratified 25 Oct 1945), what moral ground does the USA have to criticize other nations like Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, Congo... for violating the rights of their citizens? Hmm. I believe the question was referring to the constitution, not the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I guess if we can't answer that question, we'll just switch topics. Wasn't this thread about internet connection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #20 October 15, 2009 It's my understanding that there were TWO separate types of "rights" in that declaration. QuoteThe Universal Declaration was bifurcated into two distinct and different covenants, a Covenants on Civil and Political Rights and another Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Over the objection of the more developed states [Capitalist], which questioned the relevance and propriety of such provisions in covenants on human rights, both begin with the right of people to self-determination and to sovereignty over their natural resources. Then the two covenants go different ways.[14] The drafters of the Covenants initially intended only one instrument. The original drafts included only political and civil rights, but economic and social rights were added early. Western States then fought for, and obtained, a division into two covenants. They insisted that economic and social right were essentially aspirations or plans, not rights, since their realization depended on availability of resources and on controversial economic theory and ideology. These, they said, were not appropriate subjects for binding obligations and should not be allowed to dilute the legal character of provisions honoring political-civil rights; states prepared to assume obligations to respect political-civil rights should not be mitments[ambiguous]. There was wide agreement and clear recognition that the means required to enforce or induce compliance with socio-economic undertakings were different from the means required for civil-political rights. [15] source and for those that don't like wiki QuoteBecause of the divisions over which rights to include, and because some states declined to ratify any treaties including certain specific interpretations of human rights, and despite the Soviet bloc and a number of developing countries arguing strongly for the inclusion of all rights in a so-called Unity Resolution, the rights enshrined in the UDHR were split into two separate covenants, allowing states to adopt some rights and derogate others. Though this allowed the covenants to be created, one commentator has written that it denied the proposed principle that all rights are linked which was central to some interpretations of the UDHR. source Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #21 October 15, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Maybe you should try reading the Constitution sometime. Speaking of that damn old pesky piece of paper can you show me where it says, healthcare is a right? If the USA won't grant the human rights that the USA agreed to when it signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 (part of the governing documents of the UN to which the USA is joined by treaty ratified 25 Oct 1945), what moral ground does the USA have to criticize other nations like Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, Congo... for violating the rights of their citizens? Hmm. I believe the question was referring to the constitution, not the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I guess if we can't answer that question, we'll just switch topics. Wasn't this thread about internet connection. Have that many people really not read the Constitution closely enough to know that it explicitly recognizes international treaties to be "the supreme Law of the Land," provided they did not contradict the Constitution or state law? Generally speaking, America needs to take a Civics class, IMO.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #22 October 15, 2009 BUT by my reading, there was a division in the rights granted by that document. Prove to me which ones the U.S. agreed to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #23 October 15, 2009 QuoteBUT [sic] by my reading, there was a division in the rights granted by that document. Prove to me which ones the U.S. agreed to. Of which document are you speaking?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #24 October 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteBUT [sic] by my reading, there was a division in the rights granted by that document. Prove to me which ones the U.S. agreed to. Of which document are you speaking? So, it's easy to throw out insults on the need for civics classes, but... what about BASIC READING - look at post #20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #25 October 15, 2009 QuoteSo, it's easy to throw out insults on the need for civics classes, but... what about BASIC READING - look at post #20 That's rich, coming from someone who demonstrated a lack of basic writing skills in her post. I replied to post #22. How am I supposed to know what document you're referencing if you don't mention it in your post?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
