Obama's stimulus.....

[Ion01 2]

In the street of Detroit fight broke out between people fighting for a free ticket to Obama largesse that is virtually custom designed to act like a lottery … operating on pure chance to hand out Obama checks to 3,500 out of 65,000 who fill out the right form.
Social service agencies are bracing for more troubles. The economic tsunami washing over metro Detroit swept its casualties to the doors of Cobo Center on Wednesday in the form of 35,000 people so desperate for help with mortgage and utility bills that threats were made, fights broke out and people were nearly trampled. City officials said a total of about 65,000 people over the past few days have gotten applications -- due next Wednesday -- for a share of $15.2 million in federal stimulus money to help people avoid foreclosure or quickly rebound from homelessness. Ultimately, as few as 3,500 people may receive the help. Here's a portion of Ken Rogulski reporting on WJR in Michigan, two people here in line for Obama cash.

ROGULSKI: Why are you here?

WOMAN #1: To get some money.

ROGULSKI: What kind of money?

WOMAN #1: Obama money.

ROGULSKI: Where's it coming from?

WOMAN #1: Obama.

ROGULSKI: And where did Obama get it?

WOMAN #1: I don't know, his stash. I don't know. (laughter) I don't know where he got it from, but he givin' it to us, to help us.

WOMAN #2: And we love him.

WOMAN #1: We love him. That's why we voted for him!

WOMEN: (chanting) Obama! Obama! Obama! (laughing)

There's more:


ROGULSKI: Did you get an application to fill out yet?

WOMAN: I sure did. And I filled it out, and I am waiting to see what the results are going to be.

ROGULSKI: Will you know today how much money you're getting?

WOMAN: No, I won't, but I'm waiting for a phone call.

ROGULSKI: Where's the money coming from?

WOMAN: I believe it's coming from the City of Detroit or the state.

ROGULSKI: Where did they get it from?

WOMAN: Some funds that was forgiven by Obama.

ROGULSKI: And where did Obama get the funds?

WOMAN: Obama getting the funds from... Ummm, I have no idea, to tell you the truth. He's the president.

ROGULSKI: In downtown Detroit, Ken Rogulski, WJR News.

So chicago was forgiven by obama (our savior)?

What incentive do these people have to work and contribute to society? Its supposed to be all about society and not the individual.....right? Well, what are they doing for society except taking from others through things like this, welfare, foodstamps, and other such programs? Its not sustainable finacially or economically or in any way! This is marxism! And what did marxism bring humanity? Look at any country that has enacted these types of policies....they all result in economic collapse and dictators! I am not saying we are there yet or that that is the end goal of this administration but it is always the result.

[JohnDeere 0]

Wow! Them women sure have life figured out.

BTW Im still waiting for when i dont worry about paying for my car, gas, or house

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[Andy9o8 2]

You're under arrest by the repost police.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3694575;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

That thread was pretty lame, too.

Oh, those annoying poor people. They're at it again. Good thing most of 'em are kinda dumb.

[rehmwa 2]

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Oh, those annoying poor people. They're at it again. Good thing most of 'em are kinda dumb.

well, in that case, it certainly does make it easier to take their votes for granted, doesn't it?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 2]

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Oh, those annoying poor people. They're at it again. Good thing most of 'em are kinda dumb.

well, in that case, it certainly does make it easier to take their votes for granted, doesn't it?

Sho' 'nuff.

Fortunately, dumbness-of-the-sheeple is an equal opportunity disease. That's why Rush Limbaugh has his audience.

[rehmwa 2]

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well, in that case, it certainly does make it easier to take their votes for granted, doesn't it?

Fortunately, dumbness-of-the-sheeple is an equal opportunity disease.

true enough

(though I'd say UNfortunately in concept. Fortunate that there is at least some level of cross cancelling out going on)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,147]

Did you get a Bush Stimulus check last year?

Did you cash it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DougH 270]

Yes I cashed the check that I received as part of the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008. At the time I had a pretty strong grasp the events that took place which resulted in that check.

The amount received was a small percentage of the overall federal taxes that I paid in, and a very small compared to the amount of the net federal income tax that I have paid (taxes paid - credits received) thus far in my life.

It was was well under the social security "contributions" that I made, not withstanding that I doubt social security will still be around when it is time for the system to return that "contribution".

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[billvon 3,114]

>What incentive do these people have to work and contribute to society?

Perhaps they enjoy eating, and would be willing to work for that. (Hint - this program is for mortgage relief only.)

>This is marxism!

No, it's a "tax refund!" Remember when you supported Bush's round of stimulus? Same thing, except this is targeted specifically at people who are in danger of losing their homes.

>This is marxism! And what did marxism bring humanity?

The Apollo program. Nuclear reactors. Nuclear weapons. The Hubble space telescope. The Space Shuttle. The US Highway System. Shall I go on?

[kallend 2,147]

I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rhaig 0]

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I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

the check I got last year at tax time was for me to spend. And I did. All of it with local businesses.

It was not a check written to a company so they could turn around and give it to an exec as a bonus for keeping the company alive even though it lost shit-tons of money.

Don't get me wrong. If that company had paid me those bonuses, I'd find some spin to justify it. I'm a greedy fucker. But don't go equating the two.

--
Rob

[Andy9o8 2]

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what did marxism bring humanity?

It's explained in detail, here:

What Marxism Gave Us

[kallend 2,147]

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I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

the check I got last year at tax time was for me to spend. And I did. All of it with local businesses.

It was not a check written to a company so they could turn around and give it to an exec as a bonus for keeping the company alive even though it lost shit-tons of money.

Don't get me wrong. If that company had paid me those bonuses, I'd find some spin to justify it. I'm a greedy fucker. But don't go equating the two.

Please read the OP (it's not about corporate bailouts, don't go equating the two).

BTW, most of the bank bailout money, and the AIG bailout, which resulted in huge exec bonuses came from Bush/Paulson, not Obama.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ianmdrennan 2]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20091012/US.Stimulus.Jobs/

Performance Designs Factory Team

[rhaig 0]

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I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

the check I got last year at tax time was for me to spend. And I did. All of it with local businesses.

It was not a check written to a company so they could turn around and give it to an exec as a bonus for keeping the company alive even though it lost shit-tons of money.

Don't get me wrong. If that company had paid me those bonuses, I'd find some spin to justify it. I'm a greedy fucker. But don't go equating the two.

Please read the OP (it's not about corporate bailouts, don't go equating the two).

BTW, most of the bank bailout money, and the AIG bailout, which resulted in huge exec bonuses came from Bush/Paulson, not Obama.

your words that I quoted were "any and all". so the bailouts I spoke of that were handed out by the Obama administration, were part of that "any and all". I understand what the OP was about. In fact I googled around a bit to read more because I found it humorous that people were standing in line, and many didn't know exactly what they were standing in line for. Reminded me of stories I used to hear about the former soviet union, though I'm not equating the two.

--
Rob

[Lucky... 0]

Yes, I agree, let them die.

Here's a great example of the undoing of Bushenomics via Obama's stimulus:

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm


I know in chaos government that's a bad thing, but it is considered a positive thing with the rest of us.

[DougH 270]

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I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

As was mentioned before, the amount that I received was far exceeded by the amount that I paid in. I received a discount, or a rebate, on my overall tax expense.


I am not specifically against the distribution of the stimulus funds that are mentioned above.

That being said I would like to know how much federal tax the recipients have paid in over the past 5 or 10 years. If recipients have been receiving the "earned" income tax credit for the last few years, or haven't had any federal tax liability lately (if ever), then they aren't receiving a "rebate" or a "discount". Quite the opposite, they are actually making a net profit, and that is wealth redistribution plain and simple.

You can agree with giving the contributing individuals of the tax system a rebate, and at the same time disappove with distributing funds to individuals that don't contribute any tax revenue to the system. They are two totally seperate concepts.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Lucky... 0]

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Quote

I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

As was mentioned before, the amount that I received was far exceeded by the amount that I paid in. I received a discount, or a rebate, on my overall tax expense.


I am not specifically against the distribution of the stimulus funds that are mentioned above.

That being said I would like to know how much federal tax the recipients have paid in over the past 5 or 10 years. If recipients have been receiving the "earned" income tax credit for the last few years, or haven't had any federal tax liability lately (if ever), then they aren't receiving a "rebate" or a "discount". Quite the opposite, they are actually making a net profit, and that is wealth redistribution plain and simple.

You can agree with giving the contributing individuals of the tax system a rebate, and at the same time disappove with distributing funds to individuals that don't contribute any tax revenue to the system. They are two totally seperate concepts.

I see, so your nice tax write-off for yourself and per child is great and fine, as it benefits you, but people well into poverty are theirves. I wonder if people in higher classes look at you and the comparatively small taxes you pay and think you are fucking the system? Of course they do, and the people above them do the same, etc...

We are a classist nation, with clearly divided classes rather than a baseline of descent benefits for all. Interesting read I had the other day, this article establishes that clearly divided classes being a key element for fascism.

http://history.howstuffworks.com/european-history/fascism-movement1.htm

·Strict social order: Fascism maintains a strict class structure. In this way, it's the antithesis of communism, which abolishes class distinctions. Fascism believes that clearly divided classes are necessary to avoid any hint of chaos, which is a threat to the State. The State's power depends on the maintenance of a class system in which every person has a definite, unchangeable, specific role in glorifying the state. It's an absolute rejection of humanism and democracy.

So for others to denounce people well into poverty getting any benefit from a stimulus is to keep them into that class and a furtherance of immobility between the classes.

·Survival of the fittest: Some fascist philosophers were influenced by the writings of Charles Darwin and his theory of natural selection. In the context of fascism, the State is only as powerful as its ability to wage wars and win them. The State is thereby selected for survival due to its strength and dominance. Peace is viewed as weakness, aggression as strength. Strength is the ultimate good and ensures the survival of the State.

Then deny them help they cannot afford and we have fulfilled this element; do for yourself or die.

·Authoritarian leadership: The State's interests require a single, charismatic leader with absolute authority. This is the concept of Führerprinzip, "the leadership principle" in German -- that it's necessary to have an all-powerful, heroic leader to maintain the unity and unquestioning submission required by the fascist State. This leader often becomes a symbol of the State.

And then with a president like Bush this really fit. Of course having the WH, Congress and SCOTUS all highly conservative this became a real nightmare of an authoritarian model.

Of course we put them there, so we got the government we deserved. Was it fascist? To a very certain degree and wanting the ultra-poor to not have a stimulus is a furtherance of that.

[DougH 270]

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I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

As was mentioned before, the amount that I received was far exceeded by the amount that I paid in. I received a discount, or a rebate, on my overall tax expense.


I am not specifically against the distribution of the stimulus funds that are mentioned above.

That being said I would like to know how much federal tax the recipients have paid in over the past 5 or 10 years. If recipients have been receiving the "earned" income tax credit for the last few years, or haven't had any federal tax liability lately (if ever), then they aren't receiving a "rebate" or a "discount". Quite the opposite, they are actually making a net profit, and that is wealth redistribution plain and simple.

You can agree with giving the contributing individuals of the tax system a rebate, and at the same time disappove with distributing funds to individuals that don't contribute any tax revenue to the system. They are two totally seperate concepts.

I see, so your nice tax write-off for yourself and per child is great and fine, as it benefits you, but people well into poverty are theirves. I wonder if people in higher classes look at you and the comparatively small taxes you pay and think you are fucking the system? Of course they do, and the people above them do the same, etc...

We are a classist nation, with clearly divided classes rather than a baseline of descent benefits for all. Interesting read I had the other day, this article establishes that clearly divided classes being a key element for fascism.

http://history.howstuffworks.com/european-history/fascism-movement1.htm

·Strict social order: Fascism maintains a strict class structure. In this way, it's the antithesis of communism, which abolishes class distinctions. Fascism believes that clearly divided classes are necessary to avoid any hint of chaos, which is a threat to the State. The State's power depends on the maintenance of a class system in which every person has a definite, unchangeable, specific role in glorifying the state. It's an absolute rejection of humanism and democracy.

So for others to denounce people well into poverty getting any benefit from a stimulus is to keep them into that class and a furtherance of immobility between the classes.

·Survival of the fittest: Some fascist philosophers were influenced by the writings of Charles Darwin and his theory of natural selection. In the context of fascism, the State is only as powerful as its ability to wage wars and win them. The State is thereby selected for survival due to its strength and dominance. Peace is viewed as weakness, aggression as strength. Strength is the ultimate good and ensures the survival of the State.

Then deny them help they cannot afford and we have fulfilled this element; do for yourself or die.

·Authoritarian leadership: The State's interests require a single, charismatic leader with absolute authority. This is the concept of Führerprinzip, "the leadership principle" in German -- that it's necessary to have an all-powerful, heroic leader to maintain the unity and unquestioning submission required by the fascist State. This leader often becomes a symbol of the State.

And then with a president like Bush this really fit. Of course having the WH, Congress and SCOTUS all highly conservative this became a real nightmare of an authoritarian model.

Of course we put them there, so we got the government we deserved. Was it fascist? To a very certain degree and wanting the ultra-poor to not have a stimulus is a furtherance of that.

Yes, that is exactly what I said.

Now excuse me, I need to go take welfare checks and foodstamps from more poor undeserving single mothers.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[kallend 2,147]

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I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

the check I got last year at tax time was for me to spend. And I did. All of it with local businesses.

It was not a check written to a company so they could turn around and give it to an exec as a bonus for keeping the company alive even though it lost shit-tons of money.

Don't get me wrong. If that company had paid me those bonuses, I'd find some spin to justify it. I'm a greedy fucker. But don't go equating the two.

Please read the OP (it's not about corporate bailouts, don't go equating the two).

BTW, most of the bank bailout money, and the AIG bailout, which resulted in huge exec bonuses came from Bush/Paulson, not Obama.

your words that I quoted were "any and all". so the bailouts I spoke of that were handed out by the Obama administration, were part of that "any and all". I understand what the OP was about. In fact I googled around a bit to read more because I found it humorous that people were standing in line, and many didn't know exactly what they were standing in line for. Reminded me of stories I used to hear about the former soviet union, though I'm not equating the two.

So you received a corporate bailout? (you DID read the entire sentence, right, not just the few words you snipped from it to distort the meaning).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

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I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

As was mentioned before, the amount that I received was far exceeded by the amount that I paid in. I received a discount, or a rebate, on my overall tax expense.


I am not specifically against the distribution of the stimulus funds that are mentioned above.

That being said I would like to know how much federal tax the recipients have paid in over the past 5 or 10 years. If recipients have been receiving the "earned" income tax credit for the last few years, or haven't had any federal tax liability lately (if ever), then they aren't receiving a "rebate" or a "discount". Quite the opposite, they are actually making a net profit, and that is wealth redistribution plain and simple.

You can agree with giving the contributing individuals of the tax system a rebate, and at the same time disappove with distributing funds to individuals that don't contribute any tax revenue to the system. They are two totally seperate concepts.

Nice wriggling. However, once the government gets the money it's theirs, not yours, so you have no more expectation of getting a "stimulus" than does a homeless indigent.

If you cashed the BushMoney check and then complain about others getting ObamaMoney, you are a hypocrite.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DougH 270]

I wonder how many of the stimulus supporters are flying down to these hard hit areas to offer low interest rate loans to help some of these individuals out?

If it is such a good idea when it is funded with our money, then you shouldn't have any problem funding such a initiative directly.

Foreclosures are bad for everyone, right? Here is a chance to give back directly. You can even donate any profit you turn to the local YMCA.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

I wonder how many of the stimulus supporters are flying down to these hard hit areas to offer low interest rate loans to help some of these individuals out?

If it is such a good idea when it is funded with our money, then you shouldn't have any problem funding such a initiative directly.

Foreclosures are bad for everyone, right? Here is a chance to give back directly. You can even donate any profit you turn to the local YMCA.

No need to be so sensitive about being outed.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DougH 270]

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I wonder how many of the stimulus supporters are flying down to these hard hit areas to offer low interest rate loans to help some of these individuals out?

If it is such a good idea when it is funded with our money, then you shouldn't have any problem funding such a initiative directly.

Foreclosures are bad for everyone, right? Here is a chance to give back directly. You can even donate any profit you turn to the local YMCA.

No need to be so sensitive about being outed.

Your free to your opinion.

(Gross tax Liability) - (federal payments received) = Net Tax Liability

Net Tax Liability > 0 Dollars , a discount or rebate on a persons tax expense.
Net Tax Liability
I can be for or against the stimulus payments. You can be for or against them. Does that change the equation somehow? You either pay in, or you cash out.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Lucky... 0]

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Quote

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I hope that all those who object to the Obama stimulus will return any and all money they received from the govt. under Bush's 2008 stimulus plan.

As was mentioned before, the amount that I received was far exceeded by the amount that I paid in. I received a discount, or a rebate, on my overall tax expense.


I am not specifically against the distribution of the stimulus funds that are mentioned above.

That being said I would like to know how much federal tax the recipients have paid in over the past 5 or 10 years. If recipients have been receiving the "earned" income tax credit for the last few years, or haven't had any federal tax liability lately (if ever), then they aren't receiving a "rebate" or a "discount". Quite the opposite, they are actually making a net profit, and that is wealth redistribution plain and simple.

You can agree with giving the contributing individuals of the tax system a rebate, and at the same time disappove with distributing funds to individuals that don't contribute any tax revenue to the system. They are two totally seperate concepts.

I see, so your nice tax write-off for yourself and per child is great and fine, as it benefits you, but people well into poverty are theirves. I wonder if people in higher classes look at you and the comparatively small taxes you pay and think you are fucking the system? Of course they do, and the people above them do the same, etc...

We are a classist nation, with clearly divided classes rather than a baseline of descent benefits for all. Interesting read I had the other day, this article establishes that clearly divided classes being a key element for fascism.

http://history.howstuffworks.com/european-history/fascism-movement1.htm

·Strict social order: Fascism maintains a strict class structure. In this way, it's the antithesis of communism, which abolishes class distinctions. Fascism believes that clearly divided classes are necessary to avoid any hint of chaos, which is a threat to the State. The State's power depends on the maintenance of a class system in which every person has a definite, unchangeable, specific role in glorifying the state. It's an absolute rejection of humanism and democracy.

So for others to denounce people well into poverty getting any benefit from a stimulus is to keep them into that class and a furtherance of immobility between the classes.

·Survival of the fittest: Some fascist philosophers were influenced by the writings of Charles Darwin and his theory of natural selection. In the context of fascism, the State is only as powerful as its ability to wage wars and win them. The State is thereby selected for survival due to its strength and dominance. Peace is viewed as weakness, aggression as strength. Strength is the ultimate good and ensures the survival of the State.

Then deny them help they cannot afford and we have fulfilled this element; do for yourself or die.

·Authoritarian leadership: The State's interests require a single, charismatic leader with absolute authority. This is the concept of Führerprinzip, "the leadership principle" in German -- that it's necessary to have an all-powerful, heroic leader to maintain the unity and unquestioning submission required by the fascist State. This leader often becomes a symbol of the State.

And then with a president like Bush this really fit. Of course having the WH, Congress and SCOTUS all highly conservative this became a real nightmare of an authoritarian model.

Of course we put them there, so we got the government we deserved. Was it fascist? To a very certain degree and wanting the ultra-poor to not have a stimulus is a furtherance of that.

Yes, that is exactly what I said.

Now excuse me, I need to go take welfare checks and foodstamps from more poor undeserving single mothers.

Oh, so you agree that ideals that worry of the underclass getting assistance, stimulus, etc are fascist?