justinb138 0 #51 October 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote EIC is given to people who generally have kids and really low income. They take more than they put into the system, the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT you are making with stimulus checks, you justify cashing yours by saying that you had put more in than you git back, so you deserved yours, unlike people who receive more than they pay in. ---->EIC recipient earns let's say 8k. Pays in $300 in withholding. ----->They write off their kids and themselves and get back all $300 plus $4k in EIC ----->They pay zero and get $4k back that they didn't put in. LMK when you have done the math. If you can't see the difference between getting something back and getting something you never paid in the first place I'm not sure there's anything anyone can do to help you. We've all had the math done, what I'm saying is that with stimulus checks and with EIC they can both be matters of getting back more than you pay in. LMK when you grasp that concept. I believed we were referring to his specific situation, and yes, I am aware the same "credit" exists for the stimulus checks and EIC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #52 October 13, 2009 QuoteQuote I'm not saying I advocate it either, I was simply using it as an extension of Doug's logic. However, somethin has to be done to keep poor people and their kids out of poverty. Except where is the line drawn between 'Assistance' and 'Enabling' ? Given that there are generations of welfare-dependent families, is it possible that these programs are enabling the very problems they seek to eliminate? If you reward something, do you usually get more of it? And so if we refuse to enable then we let the kids die so they don't grow up to be sponges, according to you. It's not as easy as saying to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. It would be nice if these people got off the nipple, but some won't and we have to protect their kids from welfare and even help them to not be homeless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #53 October 13, 2009 Quote Oh that's laughable. CEO's are teh most productive people in teh US. Or should we look at athletes and actors, etc.... Feel free to withdraw that assertion. You'd be amazed at how much difference a good (or bad) CEO can make at a company. I'm not saying it's true in every case (hence the word 'generally'), but in most cases it's true. Keep in mind that most people aren't CEO's either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #54 October 13, 2009 Quote And so if we refuse to enable then we let the kids die so they don't grow up to be sponges, according to you. According to me? You speak for me now? You really don't stop with the assumptions about people do you? And my thought would be "It they knew they weren't going to get money from the government for having kids, would they be more likely to wait until they could afford it?" Why do people have kids when they can't afford to? Because they can, and the government not only enables the behavior, you could even argue that it encourages it. Quote It's not as easy as saying to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. It would be nice if these people got off the nipple, but some won't and we have to protect their kids from welfare and even help them to not be homeless. As a society, we've been 'helping' them for generations, and yet their situation hasn't changed. Is that really help? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #55 October 13, 2009 Quote Quote Oh that's laughable. CEO's are teh most productive people in teh US. Or should we look at athletes and actors, etc.... Feel free to withdraw that assertion. You'd be amazed at how much difference a good (or bad) CEO can make at a company. I'm not saying it's true in every case (hence the word 'generally'), but in most cases it's true. Keep in mind that most people aren't CEO's either. OK, but are they more productive accirding to their pay taht equals sometimes 100's or thousands of workers? I think you just kinda threw that out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #56 October 13, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Oh that's laughable. CEO's are teh most productive people in teh US. Or should we look at athletes and actors, etc.... Feel free to withdraw that assertion. You'd be amazed at how much difference a good (or bad) CEO can make at a company. I'm not saying it's true in every case (hence the word 'generally'), but in most cases it's true. Keep in mind that most people aren't CEO's either. OK, but are they more productive accirding to their pay taht equals sometimes 100's or thousands of workers? I think you just kinda threw that out there. What part of "in general" don't you understand? Don't think they make that much of a difference? Read up on Nardelli at Home Depot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #57 October 13, 2009 QuoteAccording to me? You speak for me now? No, but you said we are enabling these welfare recipients by continuing to pay them, right? So is your answer to stop enabling them by stop paying them or to just consiuder them 4th class citizens? Or both? QuoteYou really don't stop with the assumptions about people do you? You really can't make a point, can you? QuoteAnd my thought would be "It they knew they weren't going to get money from the government for having kids, would they be more likely to wait until they could afford it?" People in lower classes probably don't do a lot of planning, so your thought that this is a conspiracy on teh rich from the poor is just funny. QuoteWhy do people have kids when they can't afford to? Because they can, and the government not only enables the behavior, you could even argue that it encourages it. Because they have unprotected sex and don't care. What's your resolution? QuoteAs a society, we've been 'helping' them for generations, and yet their situation hasn't changed. Is that really help? OK, so what's your resolution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #58 October 13, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Oh that's laughable. CEO's are teh most productive people in teh US. Or should we look at athletes and actors, etc.... Feel free to withdraw that assertion. You'd be amazed at how much difference a good (or bad) CEO can make at a company. I'm not saying it's true in every case (hence the word 'generally'), but in most cases it's true. Keep in mind that most people aren't CEO's either. OK, but are they more productive accirding to their pay taht equals sometimes 100's or thousands of workers? I think you just kinda threw that out there. What part of "in general" don't you understand? Don't think they make that much of a difference? Read up on Nardelli at Home Depot. I don't care if you say in general or exclusively, when a CEO's pay = that of 100's or 1,000's of workers, how is it that the CEO is more productive or = to several 100 workers? It was your assertion that the more you earn, the more productive you are, hence you are a better American or something to that effect. You want a stratified America, I don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #59 October 13, 2009 Quote LMK when you have done the math. I understand the mechanics surrounding the EIC rather well. Plenty of the individuals that I prepare no cost tax returns for under the IRS's Volunteer Income Tax Assistance program qualify for the credit. Your apparant lack of concept of a negative number, and a positive number, and the difference between a debit and a credit makes this conversation more than futile. One more time, your or my opinion about the worth, effectiveness, etc of the stimulus, the EIC, or any other tax credit or government assistance measure has no bearing on simple math."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #60 October 13, 2009 Quote My tax liability far exceeded the ObushMa money that I received in 2008, and that I expect to receive if any in 2009. . Irrelevant. Once you pay your taxes the money is the government's, not yours.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #61 October 13, 2009 Quote Quote In fact, they could just focus on college professors for the 100% tax rate and tax everyone else 5% and you'd still accept it as right and decent and take that $20 and smile happily. Naaaa I say we tax his plane fuel at $2 a gallon to pay for the Next Gen ATC that our wonderful GOVT has been primising us for years. john Loves taxes just as long as he doesn have to pay for it. . I don't recall ever whining about the taxes I pay, unlike the right wingers around here.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #62 October 13, 2009 QuoteQuote My tax liability far exceeded the ObushMa money that I received in 2008, and that I expect to receive if any in 2009. . Irrelevant. Once you pay your taxes the money is the government's, not yours. That is your opinion. Simple personal accounting says otherwise. Record all of the credits coming in, and all of the debits going out. Accounting isn't very difficult. I for sure didn't expect it to be so far over the head of a higher education professor."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #63 October 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote My tax liability far exceeded the ObushMa money that I received in 2008, and that I expect to receive if any in 2009. . Irrelevant. Once you pay your taxes the money is the government's, not yours. That is your opinion. Simple personal accounting says otherwise. Record all of the credits coming in, and all of the debits going out. Accounting isn't very difficult. I for sure didn't expect it to be so far over the head of a higher education professor. Nothing whatsoever to do with accounting. Did you miss out on civics classes or something? The government doesn't owe you services in proportion to the taxes you pay. Far from it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #64 October 13, 2009 QuoteI don't recall ever whining about the taxes I pay, unlike the right wingers around here. Oh really? I will have to do some lookin and find the post claiming you pay your share through fuel and registration and everyone else should have to pay more. Something to that extent. I have to go to work now but I will look and try to find it later.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #65 October 13, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote My tax liability far exceeded the ObushMa money that I received in 2008, and that I expect to receive if any in 2009. . Irrelevant. Once you pay your taxes the money is the government's, not yours. That is your opinion. Simple personal accounting says otherwise. Record all of the credits coming in, and all of the debits going out. Accounting isn't very difficult. I for sure didn't expect it to be so far over the head of a higher education professor. Nothing whatsoever to do with accounting. Did you miss out on civics classes or something? The government doesn't owe you services in proportion to the taxes you pay. Far from it. No more than you skipped english comp. I didn't say that the government owed me a service. I said that if you receive a government payment that exceeds your tax liability you are getting a hand out, or revenue if you care to call it that. If you pay more taxes than any government payment you received you are getting a discount on your tax expense."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #66 October 14, 2009 Wriggle all you want. Fact - you accepted a Bush money stimulus last year. I strongly suspect that most of the whiners about Obama's stimulus for people at risk for losing their homes also accepted Bush money last year. How much tax you or they paid is totally irrelevant to that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #67 October 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteI don't recall ever whining about the taxes I pay, unlike the right wingers around here. Oh really? I will have to do some lookin and find the post claiming you pay your share through fuel and registration and everyone else should have to pay more. Something to that extent. I have to go to work now but I will look and try to find it later. Your memory is failing. I wrote a number of times that fuel taxes were appropriate and user fees were not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #68 October 14, 2009 Have you ever been anywhere but the next county? If you have traveled the world...or even a small part of it you would understand real class societies vs. the freedom that is left in the US (although the federal government continues to chip away at our freedoms). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #69 October 14, 2009 Quote I wrote a number of times that fuel taxes were appropriate and user fees were not. Yes, and when someone proposed a user fee you started bitchin about that. Instead you claim your small fuel tax somehow pays for a multi billion dollard ATC system that is babdly needed for an upgrade. You attitude was tax them not me.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #70 October 14, 2009 QuoteOK, so what's your resolution. Let them live with the choices they have mad in life and stop giving them handouts! Sorry lifes not fair. Deal with it!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #71 October 14, 2009 Quote I don't recall ever whining about the taxes I pay, unlike the right wingers around here. "Your search for tax war iraq in posts made by kallend returned 11 results in 0.193s. " Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #72 October 14, 2009 QuoteQuote I wrote a number of times that fuel taxes were appropriate and user fees were not. Yes, and when someone proposed a user fee you started bitchin about that. Instead you claim your small fuel tax somehow pays for a multi billion dollard ATC system that is babdly needed for an upgrade. You attitude was tax them not me. Lame. Obviously you have been unable to find a post to support your position, and your memory is failing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #73 October 14, 2009 Quote Quote I don't recall ever whining about the taxes I pay, unlike the right wingers around here. "Your search for tax war iraq in posts made by kallend returned 11 results in 0.193s. " Totally meaningless. The search just find posts with the those words somewhere in them, regardless of order or context or meaning and it finds the words written by the "in reply to" person too, who was generally the GOP tax whiner like youHere's one from your search, for example: www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2855749#2855749Did you accept a Bush stimulus check last year?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #74 October 14, 2009 QuoteHave you ever been anywhere but the next county? If you have traveled the world...or even a small part of it you would understand real class societies vs. the freedom that is left in the US (although the federal government continues to chip away at our freedoms). Gee I dunno, I went into the military when I was 17, was engine run qualified and ran engines at 19, went all over the US and then to Guam when I was 19. Got my pilot's license at 20 and flew to Saipan, visited a lot of te historical WWII sites, never made it to Tinian where the bombs were loaded - wish I had. So unless your ad hominem is over, I guess we can get back to our regularly scheduled argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #75 October 14, 2009 Quote Quote OK, so what's your resolution. Let them live with the choices they have mad in life and stop giving them handouts! Sorry lifes not fair. Deal with it! How ironic, I feel the same way: high taxes for the rich - life's not fair. Cool, we found something we have in common. And so teh children born into that mess; let them live with it. I withdraw my assertion that the right is incomnpassionate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites