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jcd11235 0
QuoteQuoteTo which Article are you referring?
Article III, section 1.
IAEA Safeguards specifically talk about inspections for the purpose of verifying peaceful intentions. The IAEA is scheduled to visit the site on October 25th. If they give the thumbs up then the discussion can take another turn.
Hiding a facility is not following the treaty. The only reason they're following it now, in my opinion, is because they got caught. We'll see what happens after the IAEA visit.
I'm not seeing how that particular section indicates a violation of the treaty on the part of Iran.
Which clause do you feel Iran has violated?
Article III, § 1.:
Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes to accept safeguards, as set forth in an agreement to be negotiated and concluded with the International Atomic Energy Agency in accordance with the Statute of the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Agencys safeguards system, for the exclusive purpose of verification of the fulfillment of its obligations assumed under this Treaty with a view to preventing diversion of nuclear energy from peaceful uses to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices. Procedures for the safeguards required by this article shall be followed with respect to source or special fissionable material whether it is being produced, processed or used in any principal nuclear facility or is outside any such facility. The safeguards required by this article shall be applied to all source or special fissionable material in all peaceful nuclear activities within the territory of such State, under its jurisdiction, or carried out under its control anywhere.
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QuoteQuoteQuoteTo which Article are you referring?
Article III, section 1.
IAEA Safeguards specifically talk about inspections for the purpose of verifying peaceful intentions. The IAEA is scheduled to visit the site on October 25th. If they give the thumbs up then the discussion can take another turn.
Hiding a facility is not following the treaty. The only reason they're following it now, in my opinion, is because they got caught. We'll see what happens after the IAEA visit.
I'm not seeing how that particular section indicates a violation of the treaty on the part of Iran.
Which clause do you feel Iran has violated?Article III, § 1.:
Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes to accept safeguards, as set forth in an agreement to be negotiated and concluded with the International Atomic Energy Agency in accordance with the Statute of the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Agencys safeguards system, for the exclusive purpose of verification of the fulfillment of its obligations assumed under this Treaty with a view to preventing diversion of nuclear energy from peaceful uses to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices. Procedures for the safeguards required by this article shall be followed with respect to source or special fissionable material whether it is being produced, processed or used in any principal nuclear facility or is outside any such facility. The safeguards required by this article shall be applied to all source or special fissionable material in all peaceful nuclear activities within the territory of such State, under its jurisdiction, or carried out under its control anywhere.
That particular section says the IAEA safeguards will be used. The safeguards specifically outline inspections to confirm peaceful intentions. Building the facilities in secret and only inviiting IAEA in after being 'caught' is not compliace. Google IAEA if you want the specific safeguard policies.
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jcd11235 0
QuoteThat particular section says the IAEA safeguards will be used. The safeguards specifically outline inspections to confirm peaceful intentions. Building the facilities in secret and only inviiting IAEA in after being 'caught' is not compliace. Google IAEA if you want the specific safeguard policies.
Perhaps you can identify the particular section(s) and paragraph(s) of Article XII: Agency Safeguards of the IAEA Statute of which Iran is in violation. The closest I am seeing is Section A, paragraph 1, of which Iran does not technically appear to be in violation.
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QuoteQuoteThat particular section says the IAEA safeguards will be used. The safeguards specifically outline inspections to confirm peaceful intentions. Building the facilities in secret and only inviiting IAEA in after being 'caught' is not compliace. Google IAEA if you want the specific safeguard policies.
Perhaps you can identify the particular section(s) and paragraph(s) of Article XII: Agency Safeguards of the IAEA Statute of which Iran is in violation. The closest I am seeing is Section A, paragraph 1, of which Iran does not technically appear to be in violation.
Holy fuck dude... how much do I need to hold your hand through this. The IAEA safeguards specifically talk about inspections.
1. To examine the design of specialized equipment and facilities, including nuclear reactors, and to approve it only from the view- point of assuring that it will not further any military purpose, that it complies with applicable health and safety standards, and that it will permit effective application of the safeguards provided for in this article;
3. To require the maintenance and production of operating records to assist in ensuring accountability for source and special fissionable materials used or produced in the project or arrangement;
4. To call for and receive progress reports;
5. To approve the means to be used for the chemical processing of irradiated materials solely to ensure that this chemical processing will not lend itself to diversion of materials for military purposes
who shall have access at all times to all places and data and to any person who by reason of his occupation deals with materials, equipment, or facilities which are required by this Statute to be safeguarded,
Iran has not had any inspections or any accountability for their sites. October 25th is their scheduled IAEA visit and that was only organized after being 'caught.' As of now, they are not in compliance. Maybe after the IAEA visit it will change. I don't know how I could possibly be any more middle of the road on this.
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jcd11235 0
QuoteIran has not had any inspections or any accountability for their sites. October 25th is their scheduled IAEA visit and that was only organized after being 'caught.' As of now, they are not in compliance. Maybe after the IAEA visit it will change. I don't know how I could possibly be any more middle of the road on this.
The time deadline is the part being questioned in this discussion. Perhaps you can point out the requirement of when Iran must submit their designs. Without a failure to meet a definitive time deadline, Iran appears to not be in violation of the NPT.
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QuoteQuoteIran has not had any inspections or any accountability for their sites. October 25th is their scheduled IAEA visit and that was only organized after being 'caught.' As of now, they are not in compliance. Maybe after the IAEA visit it will change. I don't know how I could possibly be any more middle of the road on this.
The time deadline is the part being questioned in this discussion. Perhaps you can point out the requirement of when Iran must submit their designs. Without a failure to meet a definitive time deadline, Iran appears to not be in violation of the NPT.
There is no timeline. The statements about submitting plans 90 days prior, or whatever, were false.
On a related note:
The security safeguards talk about a constant flow of information and inspections. Hiding the facility does not comply with that. After October 25th it will be a different discussion. As of now, they are not in compliance since no flow of information was provided and obviously inspections haven't been going on since the site was hidden.
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jcd11235 0
QuoteThere is no timeline. The statements about submitting plans 90 days prior, or whatever, were false.
So, no timeline would seem to indicate that they are not out of compliance, so long as they allow the inspections to begin on October 25, as scheduled.
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QuoteQuoteThere is no timeline. The statements about submitting plans 90 days prior, or whatever, were false.
So, no timeline would seem to indicate that they are not out of compliance, so long as they allow the inspections to begin on October 25, as scheduled.
They were out of compliance by hiding it. They got caught and then scheduled the IAEA visit. If it goes well on October 25th then we can talk about being in compliance.
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jcd11235 0
QuoteThey were out of compliance by hiding it. They got caught and then scheduled the IAEA visit. If it goes well on October 25th then we can talk about being in compliance.
For how long were they in operation while hidden?
Again, without specific time deadlines, there appears to technically be no violation of the NPT. Feel free to point out the specific time deadlines that implicate Iran as being in violation. So far, it looks like, although perhaps in violation of the spirit of the law, the letter of the law was followed.
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billvon 3,120
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>If it goes well on October 25th then we can talk about being in
>compliance.
Exactly. Right now we don't know. On October 25th, we will know whether they are in compliance or not.
>compliance.
Exactly. Right now we don't know. On October 25th, we will know whether they are in compliance or not.
nerdgirl 0
Yesterday afternoon I gave a talk on nuclear proliferation. Going into the Q&A period I’m thinking the first question is going to be on Iran’s program or DPRK or terrorism. No, the first question was on the MOP reprogramming docs stories. 
... 
Having looked at the primary documents, it made me look even better than I already did -[at myself] to be able to immediately reference the DD1145’s and cite the request was for only 16% over the already approved 2009 DoD budget.
Pretty cool, imo. If you hadn’t posted the story the first time & [SkyChimp] a week later, I may never have noticed. Thanks. 
/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
LOL that's awesome 
www.FourWheelerHB.com
DJL 235
Quote
Yesterday afternoon I gave a talk on nuclear proliferation. Going into the Q&A period I’m thinking the first question is going to be on Iran’s program or DPRK or terrorism. No, the first question was on the MOP reprogramming docs stories....
Having looked at the primary documents, it made me look even better than I already did
Pretty cool, imo. If you hadn’t posted the story the first time & [SkyChimp] a week later, I may never have noticed. Thanks.
/Marg
Random request. Give me one book to read, no other parameters or context.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher
nerdgirl 0
QuoteRandom request. Give me one book to read, no other parameters or context.
Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
Article III, section 1.
IAEA Safeguards specifically talk about inspections for the purpose of verifying peaceful intentions. The IAEA is scheduled to visit the site on October 25th. If they give the thumbs up then the discussion can take another turn.
Hiding a facility is not following the treaty. The only reason they're following it now, in my opinion, is because they got caught. We'll see what happens after the IAEA visit.
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Stay positive and love your life.
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