How Important is High Intelligence?

[wmw999 2,638]

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Because he knows what works and what doesn't. Versus what should work and what should not work.

He might know what works and what doesn't, but unless he has an idea why they work, or what situations they work in, I'd say that his knowledge is dangerous.

"What works" is best when backed up by data. Too often it's based on correlation rather than causation, or based on "common knowledge" which is only less common than common sense.

Not all of the time, but a decision based on relevant data (including human nature) will probably be better a statistically significant amount of the time.

To me the most valuable asset in nearly anyone would be the ability to question themselves dispassionately. Either before, during, or after situations, depending on their makeup, and the situation. A willingness to change your views somewhat based on new knowledge with is proof that you can integrate new knowledge. And the ability to integrate new knowledge is pretty important.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,169]

>Because he knows what works and what doesn't. Versus what should work
>and what should not work.

You have to understand both. If junk bonds "work" they're still a bad risk. If the 45 degree rule "works" for someone, it doesn't make it based on reality.

>Everything has costs and benefits.

Of course. And decision makers who understand all the costs and benefits generally make better decisions than those who don't. That requires a certain level of intelligence.

[rehmwa 2]

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>And decision makers who understand all the costs and benefits generally make better decisions than those who don't. That requires a certain level of intelligence.

I believe that the most important mental discipline is the ability to make decisions.

I find this is VERY often inversely related to direct IQ. (it does relate to risk averse personalities and the unwillingness to be wrong). It's a huge point to balance between:

dumb - bad decisions
super intelligent - no decisions
balanced - good decisions which take into account risk

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

One thing I REALLY hate is when people say

"I'm not that book smart, but I have COMMON SENSE"

these are not mutually exclusive - no matter how much that person wishes they were

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,638]

Common sense often seems to be proportional to common knowledge.

Common knowledge is often shorthand for "I just know it -- I don't need a bunch of data"

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,169]

>I believe that the most important mental discipline is the ability to make decisions.

While that's a good quality to have, I know a lot of people who have no problem making decisions - they are just usually wrong. These are not good people to listen to. Sometimes the best information you can get from someone is "there are pluses and minuses to both, and there's no clear winner."

[wmw999 2,638]

I was just looking at "presidential IQ" in google, and found a reference to the "Bush is the dumbest president"hoax of a few years ago in Wikipedia. The Wikipedia article had a paragraph at the end about a real study that was done about Presidential IQ's (but it costs to look at, and I'm too cheap). It says:

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In 2006, a study based on varied and often subjective historical material analyzed with the tools of historiometry was published in the journal Political Psychology. It estimated IQs for all US presidents since 1900. It rated G.W. Bush second to last, with an estimated IQ of 125 (with the estimate ranging from 111 to 139; the standard average for all people is 100). The same study estimated president Bill Clinton's IQ at 149. In an interview, the study's director noted that "Bush may be 'much smarter' than the findings imply" but that he "scores particularly unimpressively for 'openness to experience, a cognitive proclivity that encompasses unusual receptiveness to fantasy, aesthetics, actions, ideas and values.' "

I really like the "openness to experience" criterion, and I'd say it probably confirms that presidents as a whole are pretty smart dudes, as well as that Reagan was probably a lot smarter than a lot of folks gave him credit for.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[TomAiello 26]

The primary determinant of success is not intelligence, but rather a willingness to work. This has been noted by numerous people, at widely divergent times, ranging from Virgil ("Ruthless striving overcomes everything") to Edison ("Genius is 99% perspiration...").

High intelligence? Sure, it can help. So can accidents of birth, good looks, physical stamina, and dozens of other characteristics. None of them are worth a damn without a willingness to work your ass off.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[rehmwa 2]

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>"there are pluses and minuses to both, and there's no clear winner."

So I'll clarify further - as you know, in engineering we have this situation all the time. So which is more productive to finding the real solution

1 - "there are pluses and minuses to both, and there's no clear winner. So let's do the same experiment a few more times to get more data. I refuse to recommend a course of action yet. "

2 - "there are pluses and minuses to both, and there's no clear winner. So let's make and executive decision to move down path B and see if that works for us. We can always revert to path A if this doesn't work right. "

lot's of variations on that (such as adding more decision criteria, etc), but I find we make more headway with scenario 2 than scenario 1

and, I fully expect someone to respond to this with the "what if the decision is a bridge design? what then? huh? HUH?" and that's fine, it's part of the other scenario thing

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,169]

>but I find we make more headway with scenario 2 than scenario 1.

I think that both are basically crap shoots. Deciding when you have enough data to move forward is a very important skill; someone who decides to move before that point is just as bad as someone who decides to wait until after that point. We've seen examples of both where I work.

[rushmc 23]

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>Because he knows what works and what doesn't. Versus what should work
>and what should not work.

You have to understand both. If junk bonds "work" they're still a bad risk. If the 45 degree rule "works" for someone, it doesn't make it based on reality.

>Everything has costs and benefits.

Of course. And decision makers who understand all the costs and benefits generally make better decisions than those who don't. That requires a certain level of intelligence.

....AND?OR experience.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,169]

>AND?OR experience.

AND experience. You need both. Doing the wrong thing 1000 times in a row - and getting pretty good at it - is still pretty pointless unless you have the intelligence to realize it's wrong.

[rushmc 23]

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>AND?OR experience.

AND experience. You need both. Doing the wrong thing 1000 times in a row - and getting pretty good at it - is still pretty pointless unless you have the intelligence to realize it's wrong.

Ok, you are correct as I was mixing intelligence with education

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 3]

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Recently I heard about a study the showed that "multi-taskers" were actually just bad at concentrating on anything.

Hm?

[TomAiello 26]

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Recently I heard about a study the showed that "multi-taskers" were actually just bad at concentrating on anything.

Hm?

Look! Something shiny!

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nerdgirl 0]

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>I believe that the most important mental discipline is the ability to make decisions.

While that's a good quality to have, I know a lot of people who have no problem making decisions - they are just usually wrong. These are not good people to listen to. Sometimes the best information you can get from someone is "there are pluses and minuses to both, and there's no clear winner."

Reminds me of the attached cartoon.

Is arrogant assertiveness better than (sometimes tentative) questioning?

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

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The primary determinant of success is not intelligence, but rather a willingness to work. This has been noted by numerous people, at widely divergent times, ranging from Virgil ("Ruthless striving overcomes everything") to Edison ("Genius is 99% perspiration...").

I wonder if there's some implicit (if not explicit) necessary but not sufficient level of intelligence for success?

I.e., which is truly the independent variable?

Malcolm Gladwell has put forth what he calls the 10,000 hour rule, which essentially states that one has to invest 10,000 hours in something to become successful.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[jakee 1,643]

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Because he knows what works and what doesn't.

Why would having more formal education hinder him in this regard?

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Education can provide a check on ignorance, and educated persons should be present and in authority. I simply do not find it to be the end-all be-all.

But you're not just saying that it's not the be-all and end-all, you're saying that it's actually a hinderance. Why?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,212]

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The primary determinant of success is not intelligence, but rather a willingness to work. This has been noted by numerous people, at widely divergent times, ranging from Virgil ("Ruthless striving overcomes everything") to Edison ("Genius is 99% perspiration...").

I wonder if there's some implicit (if not explicit) necessary but not sufficient level of intelligence for success?

I.e., which is truly the independent variable?

Malcolm Gladwell has put forth what he calls the 10,000 hour rule, which essentially states that one has to invest 10,000 hours in something to become successful.

/Marg

Makes my 48 hours of freefall time look pretty pathetic.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.