Portable pain weapon may end up in police hands

[dreamdancer 0]

another step forward...

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THE Pentagon's efforts to develop a beam weapon that can deter an adversary by causing a burning sensation on their skin has taken a step forward with the development of a small, potentially hand-held, version. The weapon, which is claimed to cause no permanent harm, could also end up being used by police to control civilians.

The idea of the weapon is to "create a heating sensation that repels individual adversaries", according to the Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate (JNLWD) in Quantico, Virginia, which develops less-lethal weapons for the US military and coastguard.

Tests with a rifle-mounted infrared laser, carried out at a US air force lab near Dayton, Ohio, have determined a combination of laser pulse power and wavelength that causes an alarming, hot sensation on the skin, but which stops short of causing a burn, says JNLWD project engineer Wesley Burgei.

"We have established the minimum irradiance to cause a sensation and have characterised where thermal injury begins," he says. "But the exact operating irradiance which balances a useful military effect with a conservative margin of safety has not been nailed down yet."

That's something that will have to be done before the weapon is deployed, as too powerful a laser beam could permanently blind someone if fired at their eyes. Weapons that do this are banned under the UN Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons.

Burgei says it is possible to create a beam that will affect the skin without damaging the cornea, and do so at a wavelength that does not penetrate to the retina "and would therefore be retina safe".

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427286.100-portable-pain-weapon-may-end-up-in-police-hands.html

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[BikerBabe 0]

So i guess you'd rather have police just kill people, right?

how kind and humane of you. *facepalm*

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[wmw999 2,589]

I saw a story about it on 60 minutes. Quite impressive, and seems to me to be a better option than water cannons and rubber bullets.

Sometimes crowds really do need to be controlled. Hopefully by a government that can tell the difference between when they do and when they don't.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Ion01 2]

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So i guess you'd rather have police just kill people, right?

how kind and humane of you. *facepalm*

Yea! If the cops are trained properly they can take you out with one shot so you feel no pain. With this new devise they inflict great pain. How do you not get that?

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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So i guess you'd rather have police just kill people, right?

I'd rather police use the existing escalation of force standard without having new tools that are too easy to use and abuse.

[billvon 3,119]

>So i guess you'd rather have police just kill people, right?

The decision to kill someone is never taken lightly, and most police do a good job reserving that to situations where their lives (or the public) is in danger.

The decision to cause someone pain is made far more often, and is more often abused. Thus giving someone an easier way to do so is not a slam-dunk.

Put yourself in a situation where there's a near-riot and several people are coming towards you. They may or may not mean you harm; hard to say, everyone is yelling and pushing each other. Would you pull out a gun and kill them all? Unlikely. Would you pull out something else that would just incapacitate them and give you a moment to get away? Perhaps. But those are two VERY different decisions.

[futuredivot 0]

Cool

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[rickjump1 0]

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Cool

Yeah, I want one.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[BikerBabe 0]

exactly my point, bill...so why not give cops the tools to make that decision, rather than force them into making a more permanent one?

Look, I worked on the Active Denial System, which is very similar except it uses microwaves instead of lasers. I've heard all the arguments against it before. I've been a test subject for it, stood in the beam for 1.6 seconds before jumping out, watched 4 star generals and media personalities stand in the beam for even less time....I can tell you, this shit WORKS, and it's SAFE. But in the end, if you want a HARMLESS (and trust me, it's harmless) way to get people to back the fuck up, this is the way to go.

I am not scarred, i can still have babies, i didn't go blind, i don't have cancer. The pain disappeared as soon as i got out of the beam. Its the same sensation as when you open a hot oven door and the heat hits your face.

can't please anyone these days

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[billvon 3,119]

>I can tell you, this shit WORKS, and it's SAFE. But in the end, if you
>want a HARMLESS (and trust me, it's harmless) way to get people to back
>the fuck up, this is the way to go.

Right. Another way to frame what you just said is "there's no reason NOT to use it!"

And giving police a weapon that they have no reason not to use is not all good.

[rhaig 0]

It's not his idea that it's safe, so it's not.

were we to argue that it's better they all have guns and no less lethal, the discussion would go the other way.

no pleasing people that don't trust the LEOs.

In general they are good people. Let them do their jobs and GTFO of the way

--
Rob

[DeathByCactus 0]

Think I prefer the taser... I don't see this being used a lot to be honest. In many cases of police shootings it takes more than 1 bullet to get a suspect to stop trying to hurt the officer or someone else because of their adrenaline.

I just don't see an officer using this on a suspect who is drunk, angry, or on an adrenaline rush that is attacking them or someone else, instead of a tazer, baton, or force of hands.

I do see this being the source of a lot of complaints... "He put me in cuffs then burned me... but I can't prove it because I have no marks..."

Aspiring flying squirrel / Jump student

[dreamdancer 0]

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The weapon, which has been evolving since 2005, is officially known at the Pentagon as the Thermal Laser System. The US National Institute of Justice, which is also funding the weapon's development in the hope that it may prove useful for the police, refers to it as the IR-Lesslethal device.

The Pentagon already has a large crowd control weapon called the Active Denial System that can heat whole groups of people, causing them to flee. It uses a flat-plate antenna mounted on a truck or aircraft to aim a 2-metre-wide microwave beam at the crowd.

Like all supposedly non-lethal weapons that could be used to control civilians, the Pentagon's new portable weapon is raising concerns. "I'd like to know why they want another advanced pain compliance weapon like this," says Steve Wright, non-lethal weapons analyst at Leeds Metropolitan University in the UK. "Persuading by pain rather than brain - through conversation - has led to push-button torture in the past. If it leaves no mark on the skin how will anyone prove it's been abused?"

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427286.100-portable-pain-weapon-may-end-up-in-police-hands.html

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[rhaig 0]

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I do see this being the source of a lot of complaints... "He put me in cuffs then burned me... but I can't prove it because I have no marks..."

there are tasers with video cameras on them so that they start recording when they are activated. Just like the dash cam and belt-tape system for recording an officers actions and words.

There are ways to inflict pain that don't show marks, and that don't involve any devices. Yet these corrupt officers you fear aren't cuffing people and inflicting pain on them.

--
Rob

[kallend 2,150]

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>So i guess you'd rather have police just kill people, right?

The decision to kill someone is never taken lightly, and most police do a good job reserving that to situations where their lives (or the public) is in danger.

Amadou Diallo, armed only with a wallet, shot 42 times by cops.


Ooops - my mistake, the cops did show restraint, they only shot him 41 times.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skycop 0]

Amadou Diallo, armed only with a wallet, shot 42 times by cops.


Ooops - my mistake, the cops did show restraint, they only shot him 41 times.
***

Apples, meet oranges..........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Amadou Diallo, armed only with a wallet, shot 42 times by cops.


Ooops - my mistake, the cops did show restraint, they only shot him 41 times.
***

Apples, meet oranges..........

NYPD ain't cops?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[futuredivot 0]

Complain about offering a less than lethal option for cops and then use an example where giving officers another option would have probably saved a life? That's even worse than your usual convoluted attempts to make your point.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[skycop 0]

Nice try,
You tried to deflect a little off topic, using a tired argument you've used NUMEROUS times before.........yawn...........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[shah269 0]

I've seen it and I've had it tested on me.
HURTS like hell!
And yes you can die from extreme pain.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[skycop 0]

And yes you can die from extreme pain.***

Yes, that why it's called "less lethal" instead of non-lethal. Any application of force has the potential for injury.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[warpedskydiver 0]

You know you liked it...

[kallend 2,150]

For those like you and futuredivot who have deliberate comprehension problems, my post about the unarmed Amadou Diallo being shot 41 times was a response to a previous post that stated:

"The decision to kill someone is never taken lightly, and most police do a good job reserving that to situations where their lives (or the public) is in danger."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[futuredivot 0]

So, your example didn't have anything to do with the subject at hand. Cool

Maybe that lack of focus is why you teach and don't do.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

So, your example didn't have anything to do with the subject at hand. Cool

Maybe that lack of focus is why you teach and don't do.

In the immortal words of mnealtx:

"Thread drift happens, deal with it".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.